The good old days....
....I think not!
....I think not!
Is it my speakers? I think I'm done with CD's. Are paid-for downloadable files any better? (...and, "Can it reach 60", a quality test for CDs)
- Thread starter Rango
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NYMo
Senior Member
I use a CD player with valve output...it smokes my Oppo 95 which is thin and weedy !
It could be simply that you prefer the sound of valves over solid state equipment. I'm not going to get into the nuances of 'accuracy' because if you prefer the sound of valves to solid state then that's all that matters. Certainly there are enough people out there who prefer the sound of valves, otherwise the stuff wouldn't sell.
Ditto with vinyl. Maybe it all does sound more pleasing, and definitely looks very cool spinning on a turntable with valves glowing away, but for me it's too much to mess with.
@ar surround , Your way too kind. LOL
He could be saying rather more about (his opinion of) the Oppo 95. I'm a fairly big fan of Opps for being fine surround decoding brains of any system. For CDs, I was just so uninspired with them (3 diff models). Got an outboard DAC and a veil was lifted from 16/44.1 playback.
jimfisheye
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CD format is still a calling card for volume war mastered sound.
Bluray is usually a calling card for unmolested sound.
Absolutely nothing to do with format limitations. And there are plenty of outliers! CDs with perfect mastering and pristine sound. Bluray discs with the same stepped on 'mastered for CD' program as the volume war CD.
SOX and r8brain sample rate conversion is very transparent. You can run a file back and forth (destructively - altered every pass) with 100 conversions and it still nulls down to -100db with just a couple bits of noise signal left.
Sure, you can find an old copy of that Goldenwave app and create a metallic ringy mutilation in a single pass that has to be heard to be believed! That junk is pretty depreciated in these modern times but it's still out there.
You used to have to buy DA converters like Apogee or Prism if you wanted SD sample rates with well made analog low pass eq filters. (For the difficult low pass needed with the program right up to the edge of the sample rate in 44.1k or 48k audio.) Nowadays the average DAC in a Midas product shines pretty well even in the worst case use. Heck, even Presonus and Focusrite are hard to find fault with!
We have some real cheapness going on currently with soundbars, ear buds, and cheap DACs that give my statement above a run for its money! But it's a golden age of audio if you want it to be.
I'll tell you this though. I vet music before buying it now with all the novelty releases with truncated/mutilated sound floating around! There be stuff out there relying on the kids only having ear buds and shitbars to listen to!
Bluray is usually a calling card for unmolested sound.
Absolutely nothing to do with format limitations. And there are plenty of outliers! CDs with perfect mastering and pristine sound. Bluray discs with the same stepped on 'mastered for CD' program as the volume war CD.
SOX and r8brain sample rate conversion is very transparent. You can run a file back and forth (destructively - altered every pass) with 100 conversions and it still nulls down to -100db with just a couple bits of noise signal left.
Sure, you can find an old copy of that Goldenwave app and create a metallic ringy mutilation in a single pass that has to be heard to be believed! That junk is pretty depreciated in these modern times but it's still out there.
You used to have to buy DA converters like Apogee or Prism if you wanted SD sample rates with well made analog low pass eq filters. (For the difficult low pass needed with the program right up to the edge of the sample rate in 44.1k or 48k audio.) Nowadays the average DAC in a Midas product shines pretty well even in the worst case use. Heck, even Presonus and Focusrite are hard to find fault with!
We have some real cheapness going on currently with soundbars, ear buds, and cheap DACs that give my statement above a run for its money! But it's a golden age of audio if you want it to be.
I'll tell you this though. I vet music before buying it now with all the novelty releases with truncated/mutilated sound floating around! There be stuff out there relying on the kids only having ear buds and shitbars to listen to!
That is interesting. I've never noticed any failing with CD playback on my three Oppo's.
But if the DAC works for you, who am I to say it doesn't. Cheers.
That may be a strong general impression, made mainly by the online writings of many in high end audio marketing to sell expensive TTs, LP's, and other related gear. But it is far from the true numbers. In the big picture, "the loudness war" has effected a relativly small number of modern rock recordings and remasters and is hopefully coming to an end.
Which DAC is it that you like?
I guess if its an outboard it might be an Evinrude or Mercury...
NYMo
Senior Member
Trust me ....the differences were not subtle !
I put the cd into the Oppo and the copy of the same cd ( ie two of the same cd )then monitor through the same amplification and just switching inputs after level matching ( admittedly by ear)
I have had the Oppo since I first got into surround only a couple of years ago. I had read on some forums that the Oppo 95 was "thin" sounding and decided to test that. I used to master cd's for a living so I think my ears are used to analysing differences....I was actually shocked with the difference. All my surround is still done with the Oppo, but any cd that I play now goes through the CD player.
As usual .... YMMV !
So I'm wondering...how do other discs sound in the Oppo?
Do you have another playback device for surround other than the 95?
Curious that you noticed nothing until you read some forum posts.
Like I said, I would not tell you what you're hearing is not there, I wonder if there's something wrong with the 95.
I use my Oppo 105 for 95% of my playback: all the discs that fit, streaming from my NAS, and stuff that only plays through USB. The other 5% is DVR TV and Roku streaming.
I’m having a few glitches with it muting 1080 video after playing 3D, although it usually clears out after a couple of days. Oppo is clueless, since it’s intermittent. I’m considering sending it in with a mixed 3D and 2D disc, but doing without will suck.
I’m having a few glitches with it muting 1080 video after playing 3D, although it usually clears out after a couple of days. Oppo is clueless, since it’s intermittent. I’m considering sending it in with a mixed 3D and 2D disc, but doing without will suck.
I am truly curious - how would you describe "weedy" sound? I keep thinking of the sound of a bunch of bugs in the grass or aural hallucinations after toking from an over sized bong.
jimfisheye
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I've heard shrill volume war drek in every digital format from the 'lowly' CD to bluray to 24/96 HD downloads from HDTracks. (In fact a couple of the HDTracks novelty releases I've heard were the worst available copy of said album I could find!) Did I mention DSD yet? Literally just as capable as HD PCM as a format but there are plenty of examples of distorted mutilated sound.
There's just some really ratty mastering sometimes and some releases are apparently just novelty releases not meant to actually listen to. (Perhaps like picture disc vinyl from the past?)
I don't mean to suggest this is the majority of releases or anything! Hope it's not. Just that format can be a calling card sometimes but literally every digital format has examples of botched mastering. Or if that "calling card" comment is wrong and my sample set is to blame... um, too bad for me then?
I still call this the golden age of audio! There may be some novelty botch jobs out there but being able to rip or download perfect 24 bit master copies of discrete multi channel surround and everything else is happiness and light. I can't believe anyone had the hunger (and engineering prowess) as a consumer to figure out the encoded vinyl formats and actually dial them in well enough to even partially decode any of them! Now we can just deliver audio and there are no excuses. And I do mean to say that the people behind the modern novelty releases should feel bad!
There's just some really ratty mastering sometimes and some releases are apparently just novelty releases not meant to actually listen to. (Perhaps like picture disc vinyl from the past?)
I don't mean to suggest this is the majority of releases or anything! Hope it's not. Just that format can be a calling card sometimes but literally every digital format has examples of botched mastering. Or if that "calling card" comment is wrong and my sample set is to blame... um, too bad for me then?
I still call this the golden age of audio! There may be some novelty botch jobs out there but being able to rip or download perfect 24 bit master copies of discrete multi channel surround and everything else is happiness and light. I can't believe anyone had the hunger (and engineering prowess) as a consumer to figure out the encoded vinyl formats and actually dial them in well enough to even partially decode any of them! Now we can just deliver audio and there are no excuses. And I do mean to say that the people behind the modern novelty releases should feel bad!
NYMo
Senior Member
Nothing is wrong with my 95 ...I have it because it's allocation of the 8 d/a's are much better than the 105 which allocates half the d/a's to the headphone amp !
As I said, I've been happily using it for all playback until I recently read about the thin sound ( Audiogon or Hoffman forum...can't rember which)
and then did the a/b with the CD player.
I've also got a Denon 3910 here as well ( in the spares room ) when I get around to it, ill a/b the Oppo with that .
NYMo
Senior Member
It's a crop analogy as you most probably know.
The weeds that grow next to the crop ( barley, oats etc) are thin compared to the crop plant and WEEDY ( weed like) !!
In audio, it refers to the sound quality is not as full as could be from similar products. ( Full = Rounded, fat, girth etc )
I'm sure that there is nothing wrong with the sound of the Oppo playing CD's but I do believe that you are getting "better sound" via the modded CD player. I'm the last one who would say that "tube sound" is simply added harmonics, however I think that is what is happening here. The tube stage adds a small amount of second harmonic distortion which adds to the music making it sound richer, fuller and more natural.
I love tube sound especially with my phono stage. If it sounds better, it is better; despite what the meter readers say!
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