Jethro Tull 5.1 (“Bursting Out” box set with Steven Wilson 5.1 mixes out in June 2024!)

[GabeL]

Well, sadly, I just received notification that the order I placed through ImportCDs was cancelled because the item was out of stock...back to Amazon I suppose.

 

[byrdman7]

96 refers to sample rate (96,000 cycles per second). 24 refers to digital word length (24 bits available). These are recording format resolutions. Resolution is really important, but it doesn't explain the whole story.

Neither of these numbers tell you anything about file copy fidelity or data throughput. Both of these parameters are important to the result you get when you play back the audio from the media you purchased.

File copy fidelity refers to the exactness of the data copy process from the point it is packaged and saved to media, to the point at which it is retrieved from the media for use (in this case playback).

There are three types of file types: non-compressed, losslessly-compressed, and lossy-compressed.

Non-compressed files are copies that are copied exactly as the original was created. Absolutely nothing is changed. The file size is exactly the same; all of the bits of data are the same; even the spaces that contain absolutely no data in the file are copied as is. The copied file can be played back requiring no additional software. It will sound exactly the same as the original file, when played on the same equipment.

Up until recently, data file size limitations required lossy compression to fit into the media sizes that were commercially viable. The lossy compression is another program interposed into the copy process that reduces the size of the copied file.

Lossy compression actually discards data that was in the original file of digital audio data. The result is a very (to my 57 year old ears) audible degradation of the sound quality, when compared to playback from a non-compressed, or losslessly compressed file.

When DVD-Audio discs were first designed, there was not enough space on a DVD to record 60 minutes of six (5.1) channels of uncompressed audio at 24/96 resolution. So companies were tasked to create a compression scheme that resulted in absolutely no data loss. Meridian (a company from England) came up with a program to do just that. They called it Meridian Lossless Packaging (also known as MLP).

MLP repacked the data in a much more efficient way, throwing away only the empty spaces that contained no data. There were additional changes made to the files that resulted in more file size savings. MLP is a losslessly-compressed file format. It is an extra program that is interposed into the copy and subsequent data retrieval processes. The result is a file retrieval that plays back as if it were never compressed.

Have you ever noticed that the 5.1 tracks on a DVD-Audio disc is never specified as being 24 bit / 192 sample rate? that is because even MLP cannot compress file size sufficient to allow 24/192 level data to stream from the output of a DVD player. This is a hardware limitation of the DVD player. Blu Ray players have much higher data throughput capacity, so they can use CODECs (COmpression / DECompression programs) such as Dolby True HD (which uses MLP, by the way) and DTS- HD Master Audio (which uses a proprietary CODEC for audio).

So, now that you have a basic understanding of the technologies involved, I will answer your question about the actual audio differences between the DVD with resolution of 24/96 and the Blu ray (which uses DTS-HD Master Audio) with a resolution of 24/96.

For the stereo tracks on the DVD, the format is uncompressed LPCM (Linear Pulse Code Modulation, AKA 24/96 uncompressed digital audio). You will hear absolutely no difference between these tracks on the DVD versus the same tracks on the Blu ray disc. The original DVD standard allowed for uncompressed stereo 24/96 LPCM.

The DVD standard did not allow for uncompressed multichannel (i.e. > 2 channels) audio. For surround sound formats (5.1 and quad 4.0), the best available CODEC on a DVD is DTS 24/96.

DTS 24/96 uses a (very good) lossy compression scheme. The Rhino / Handmade Quadio releases were done in DTS 24/96, and they sounded very good. But they did not sound as good as was possible using a lossless compression CODEC. Check out some of the bitching on the posts in this forum about DTS 24/96 sound quality. I think a lot of the criticism is over the top, but it gives you a basis for comparison.

On the Blu Ray disc, the sound quality of the audio file will be as close to what Steve Wilson was able to hear when he remixed the tracks in the studio. That does not mean that the quality of the audio file is the only parameter that affect overall sound playback quality. The quality of the hardware you use for playback, and the acoustics of the room you listen in will have affects on the overall sound quality you get to hear.

However, even if you are listening on a budget level system in a poor acoustical environment, I expect that you will hear an obvious difference in sound quality on the surround tracks of these recordings.

Steven

Thank you for the detailed reply. It appears I started a food fight, that was not my intention. I have learned that one must keep their questions or opinions silent or get slammed. I sincerely apologize if I offended anyone.

 

[wanners]

Well, sadly, I just received notification that the order I placed through ImportCDs was cancelled because the item was out of stock...back to Amazon I suppose.

Mine is still alive. When did you make your order?

 

[GabeL]

On October 25th...no surprise I suppose.

Mine is still alive. When did you make your order?

 

[wavelength]

DTS- HD Master Audio (which uses a proprietary CODEC for audio).

So, is DTS- HD Master Audio non-compressed or losslessly-compressed?

 

[wavelength]

Thank you for the detailed reply. It appears I started a food fight, that was not my intention. I have learned that one must keep their questions or opinions silent or get slammed. I sincerely apologize if I offended anyone.

It's really not like that here. I think you're fine and I'm guessing everyone else does too. We are a small group. We need the opinions to keep coming.

 

[wanners]

On October 25th...no surprise I suppose.

Me too. I wonder if I just made the cut.

 

[wanners]

It's really not like that here. I think you're fine and I'm guessing everyone else does too. We are a small group. We need the opinions to keep coming.

We'll only lambast your opinion if it's a really stupid one. seriously tho, I was only thinking we should keep the technical talk out of this thread.

 

[wanners]

So, is DTS- HD Master Audio non-compressed or losslessly-compressed?

I thought it was noncompressed lossless.

 

[GabeL]

Here's hoping your order stands

Me too. I wonder if I just made the cut.

 

[DennisMabry]

ImportCD's sent my notification that it was shipped on Thursday.

 

[wavelength]

I thought it was noncompressed lossless.

You are combining two words that mean the same thing.

 

[cupboy]

Well, sadly, I just received notification that the order I placed through ImportCDs was cancelled because the item was out of stock...back to Amazon I suppose.

Well, yep, that's what I figured. They did that to me when I ordered Fleetwood Mac Rumours SACD from them, so I didn't bother putting in an order this time. importcds can't supply the quantity of these that must have been ordered at that price.

I've already got one reserved at Best Buy. Haven't decided whether to pick it up or not at almost $150 with the sales tax, but I've got until Nov. 5 to decide.

I wouldn't be surprised if Amazon can't fill the orders anytime soon either.

 

[LizardKing]

On October 25th...no surprise I suppose.

They haven't cancelled mine yet and I ordered it on the 26th...@: Although my 26th is the 25th in the US........

They haven't shipped it yet though...

 

[quadstone]

It's odd it was cancelled and odd it was reported as shipped to some. It can't have shipped as it's not released until tomorrow (Nov 1) and they are still taking orders, so they can't be out of stock. I've never dealt with these guys and I'm getting nervous already.

 

[Brett]

They haven't cancelled mine yet and I ordered it on the 26th...@: Although my 26th is the 25th in the US........

They haven't shipped it yet though...

They haven't cancelled or shipped mine either.

 

[byrdman7]

They haven't cancelled or shipped mine either.

Their website is still showing it available for pre-order, I find it hard to believe they are asleep at the wheel by cancelling orders and still accepting pre-orders. A friend ordered on the 28th and his order is still valid. I guess we will all know for sure shortly.

 

[Odys]

I got a DHL tracking number from ImportCDs last week, it's still not showing up in their system. I also got a USPS tracking number from them today, also not showing up when I search for it. Not sure what's going on.

 

[Bob Squires Jr]

Hopefully mine will arrive from Amazon US tomorrow... $104.00 for mine. I wasn't gonna get one but for that I'll do it.
Not at $169.00 like others (on eBay as well) are selling it for.
I may just keep the blu-ray disc and off the rest of the set for like $50.00.
I already have a 200 Gram Classics pressing of it, I'll have the BD and I have a DVD of the quad reel, so....
I'll let everyone know after I get it.

-B

 

[DennisMabry]

I already have a 200 Gram Classics pressing of it

I have the 200g pressing of the original stereo mix as well but the LP in this set will be the new Steven Wilson stereo mix (which BTW will also be on the BD at 24/96). Anyway, it will be different, so you might just want to keep it.