Jim Fosgate Documentary: Wizard of Foz

[xpablo]

I don't know if anyone already post in here, But this is really interesting documentary of late jim fosgate

 

[jefe1]

Yes it is I just finished watching it

More than audio it is a lesson about living life and overcoming adversity.
Anyone young and contemplating business ventures should watch it.

Just wished they had shown a gallery of his products particularly the quad ones.

 

[vinylguy4]

Just wished they had shown a gallery of his products particularly the quad ones.

Try this one on YouTube.

search for The Inventions of Jim Fosgate​

www.youtube.com/watch?v=fduwEoOE8uo

 

[Sonik Wiz]

I don't know if anyone already post in here, But this is really interesting documentary of late jim fosgate

Great link thank you. Otherwise I would not know about it. Well I'm gonna watch it again soon & take notes.

 

[Sonik Wiz]

Watching this the first time the only name I recognized in the opening credits was Norma Fosgate, Jim's wife. What I didn't know was she followed Jim in passing about a year later:

https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/deseretnews/name/norma-fosgate-obituary?id=39490520
She is listed as Executive Producer but perhaps that is an honorary standing?

And watching it a second time with a second cup 'o coffee this morning I am even more impressed at the contributions, albeit small, from Roger Dressler & Charles Wood. I like the family interviews & esp the round up at the end.

I'd like to remind us that some time ago QQ member @MikeWiz introduced himself & spoke of a project he was working on being a Fosgate documentary. He seems to have abandoned us after that thread but in the film a Mike Wisland is mentioned from the University of Utah & I'm sure they are one and the same. Here's a shout out to Mike, please come back with an update and what about that "treasure trove of schematics" you promised?

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/threads/i-am-totally-new-here-but-a-jim-fosgate-fan.34407/
Interestingly there is already media title Wizard of Foz but it's in regard to track & field at the Uni of Oregon:

https://around.uoregon.edu/content/wizard-foz-dick-fosburys-one-man-high-jump-revolution
And while the film is being produced by Stone House Productions, there already exists an LLC by that name that didn't have anything to do with the documentary:

https://www.stonehouseproductions.com/
At any rate I found this film fascinating & the smaller companion piece on YT about Jim Fosgate's inventions. I mean wouldn't it be cool to have your occupation on a passport listed as "inventor"?

 

[LB-V]

I don't know if anyone already post in here, But this is really interesting documentary of late jim fosgate

Thank you for sharing. Fantastic movie. Really enjoyed it. Makes me want to fire up my Tates.

 

[LB-V]

After digesting the film a bit, it reminded me that I've never felt like Dolby PL II is a superior system to the Tate II. Perhaps for movies, no doubt. But for music, I've always shied away from PL II...just never seemed that satisfying to me. It's likely I have not given it a fair trial or comparison.

Curious from a technical standpoint, what made PL II an advancement from the Tate II? Apologies if there is an existing thread covering this.

 

[jefe1]

When I first joined here there were threads about the various Fosgate units and the numbered ones three five etc were disparaged in favor if the earlier 3608? Units etc. Now I'm not so sure after viewing the documentary and the YouTube link where Mr Fosgate talks about his products in succession. He seems to like the five and the three.

Has anyone compared these later units in recent years not against the Tate but as alternatives?

Perhaps with the great Surround Master there is no need now.

 

[LB-V]

Has anyone compared these later units in recent years not against the Tate but as alternatives?

Well, I don't know but if anybody has had the opportunity to do so, I'm pretty sure @par4ken would have some experience there. I believe he's got every decoder / synthesizer that was possible for him to acquire and he often opines on the advantages and cons. The Audionics S&IC being the best, in his listening experience.

 

[Sonik Wiz]

After digesting the film a bit, it reminded me that I've never felt like Dolby PL II is a superior system to the Tate II. Perhaps for movies, no doubt. But for music, I've always shied away from PL II...just never seemed that satisfying to me. It's likely I have not given it a fair trial or comparison.

Curious from a technical standpoint, what made PL II an advancement from the Tate II? Apologies if there is an existing thread covering this.

It is my opinion & opinion only that as the Fosgate products evolved they had some superior technical advancements but shifted from music oriented to more for movies.

I'm sure I don't have as many boxes as Ken but I do own & listened extensively to Fosgate 101A, Space Matrix 3606 & Fosgate Model 5. And DPL II on my Anthem pre/pro. I have never heard any of the Citation products or the Space & Image Composer. In regards to the S&IC it had variable wrap around surround for stereo & variable "logic" control. Already these features had been trimmed back for the 101A but it now sported a "cinema" mode. Still the 101 was a stellar performer & still had that great 270 deg wrap around mode for stereo even if it wasn't adjustable.

Those were the only units capable of SQ decoding despite rampant speculation that certainly the Space Matrix series was for SQ, just by association with Fosgate. It was not as my own testing showed that it responded well to QS/RM signals but not SQ. I think you have read this before but just for completeness sake:

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/threads/space-matrix-revisited.26421/
Interestingly the more advanced & expensive Space Matrix decoders had increased features with the possibility of decreased sound quality. For example remote control level adjustments were made by the LM 13600 VCA & while better than the RCA 3080 chip analog VCA's didn't really advance until the Blackmer cell used by DBX. Also the delay for the rear chs was accomplished by a Reticon SAD 1024 analog bucket brigade. Certainly a fun toy at the time with strong limitations.

Tjhe oddest of these decoders I own is the Model 5. I was entranced by the newer Fosgates coming out that I couldn't afford but then a local dealer told me the model 5 had all the quality of the Model 4, without the bling. I purchased & was immediately underwhelmed. It had no front panel controls & is completely useless with out the remote control. And then the front panel LED's showed mystery functions such as Music or 70mm. None of this offered a good wrap around surround with stereo, no good for SQ or QS. And being complely subjective about it it just didn't have the clarity & detail of the 101A.

I never saw DPL II offered as an advancement for Tate II as it was such a completely different animal. It was offered as an advancement for playing stereo music compared to the few previous generations of movie oriented decoders. It can be adjusted for credible decoding of QS but like the Surround Master it does not have a good wrap around mode for stereo. This is what prompted me to explore how to do the equivalent of Sansui Surround Synthesis on the PC. I succeeded years ago at this. But now I am more likely to work in the 2 ch mode with pre-synthesis and enjoy the S2S decoding on the Surround Master.

 

[LB-V]

It is my opinion & opinion only that as the Fosgate products evolved they had some superior technical advancements but shifted from music oriented to more for movies.

Thank you Sonik for the reply! I enjoyed the information and summary of experience with the units.

 

[vinylguy4]

The Fosgate model 4 (and I assume model 5) did a pretty good job of decoding QS in the popular mode.
See this thread for pics
https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/threads/fosgate-audionics-model-four-question.27386/

 

[LB-V]

Thinking more again on the movie...it would be interesting to get the perspective of business competitors of Fosgate through those years during the development and failures of his products. The movie presented the journey like a benevolent but unfortunate entrepreneur...I wonder if competitors had the same perspective. Like Audionics of Oregon for example. And Sansui with the QS-D1000, etc. I believe that was in the same timeframe.

 

[MikeWiz]

Watching this the first time the only name I recognized in the opening credits was Norma Fosgate, Jim's wife. What I didn't know was she followed Jim in passing about a year later:

https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/deseretnews/name/norma-fosgate-obituary?id=39490520
She is listed as Executive Producer but perhaps that is an honorary standing?

And watching it a second time with a second cup 'o coffee this morning I am even more impressed at the contributions, albeit small, from Roger Dressler & Charles Wood. I like the family interviews & esp the round up at the end.

I'd like to remind us that some time ago QQ member @MikeWiz introduced himself & spoke of a project he was working on being a Fosgate documentary. He seems to have abandoned us after that thread but in the film a Mike Wisland is mentioned from the University of Utah & I'm sure they are one and the same. Here's a shout out to Mike, please come back with an update and what about that "treasure trove of schematics" you promised?

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/threads/i-am-totally-new-here-but-a-jim-fosgate-fan.34407/
Interestingly there is already media title Wizard of Foz but it's in regard to track & field at the Uni of Oregon:

https://around.uoregon.edu/content/wizard-foz-dick-fosburys-one-man-high-jump-revolution
And while the film is being produced by Stone House Productions, there already exists an LLC by that name that didn't have anything to do with the documentary:

https://www.stonehouseproductions.com/
At any rate I found this film fascinating & the smaller companion piece on YT about Jim Fosgate's inventions. I mean wouldn't it be cool to have your occupation on a passport listed as "inventor"?

I'm not gone, just havent had much new news to report on. But here is an update: This summer I got an onsite interview with Roger Dressler of Dolby Labs. Jim referred to him quite a bit in our discussions on how he was key in developing Dolby Pro Logic II, and later digitizing it for Dolby Digital. I was very fortunate as he happened to be sitting as my table at Jim and Norma's funeral. This will be added to the doc that myself and Richard McLean have been working on for years. So updates will be coming on that front as well. I will after that is edited, ask this forum for any post DPL-II data. Information on Audionics of Oregon, and any info on his Jolida/Black Ice Audio era will be my next targets. I do have some short video of those items. I did a one day shoot trying to capture his whole archive of prototypes (after seeing his Wizard of Foz doc, I decided "woah wait, there was barely any mention of what made you famous, etc., so I picked up a camera and went to interview him. So there's the one day shoot stuff, still not included. It was then that I realized this isn't doing this justice. So I came back with students, cameras, lighting, and began pulling deevices off his museum shelves and dropping it on his lab bench and asking "okay, 'splain this". That's what's in the The Inventions of Jim Fosgate doc that Richar edited. So work-in-progress.
Myself and Utah Valley University were named in his will to recieve his prototypes and hopefully all the schematics and some ephemera. Somewhat to my surprise, but certainly due to our work on that "insertion to the Fo doc". I was tasked with providing valuation for the Legal dept, which as a recipient, I am not allowed to do. Fortunately, at Jim's estate sale I met two individuals who eventually agreed to help out. A nice collector of Rockford-Fosgate stuff, Mike Shultz in Rhode Island, and another nice guy, Bob Herndon, who I believe goes by QuadBob on forums such as this? Anyway that was completed just days ago. I now have to justify their expertise in a small report to Legal. Then the transaction can occur and I'll find out what we eventually got that wasn't pick thru or whatever in the mean time. So I better get writing on that. Or no equipment. We intend to create a small museum of these items as well as putting the paper ephemera in our online system at our Library (where Richard works). He loves this stuff and will no doubt be helping with that. So that eventually (barring publishing things under patent, things that are still under manufacture), so you all can view it. Alot of stuff on my plate, on and all that teaching stuff. I'm Prof of Audio in our Digital Media dept, so there's that job getting in my way of reallly havin' fun with this. Tho is teaching audio really a bad thing? Of course there is a DPL-II in the classroom!

 

[Sonik Wiz]

I'm not gone, just havent had much new news to report on. But here is an update: This summer I got an onsite interview with Roger Dressler of Dolby Labs. Jim referred to him quite a bit in our discussions on how he was key in developing Dolby Pro Logic II, and later digitizing it for Dolby Digital. I was very fortunate as he happened to be sitting as my table at Jim and Norma's funeral. This will be added to the doc that myself and Richard McLean have been working on for years. So updates will be coming on that front as well. I will after that is edited, ask this forum for any post DPL-II data. Information on Audionics of Oregon, and any info on his Jolida/Black Ice Audio era will be my next targets. I do have some short video of those items. I did a one day shoot trying to capture his whole archive of prototypes (after seeing his Wizard of Foz doc, I decided "woah wait, there was barely any mention of what made you famous, etc., so I picked up a camera and went to interview him. So there's the one day shoot stuff, still not included. It was then that I realized this isn't doing this justice. So I came back with students, cameras, lighting, and began pulling deevices off his museum shelves and dropping it on his lab bench and asking "okay, 'splain this". That's what's in the The Inventions of Jim Fosgate doc that Richar edited. So work-in-progress.
Myself and Utah Valley University were named in his will to recieve his prototypes and hopefully all the schematics and some ephemera. Somewhat to my surprise, but certainly due to our work on that "insertion to the Fo doc". I was tasked with providing valuation for the Legal dept, which as a recipient, I am not allowed to do. Fortunately, at Jim's estate sale I met two individuals who eventually agreed to help out. A nice collector of Rockford-Fosgate stuff, Mike Shultz in Rhode Island, and another nice guy, Bob Herndon, who I believe goes by QuadBob on forums such as this? Anyway that was completed just days ago. I now have to justify their expertise in a small report to Legal. Then the transaction can occur and I'll find out what we eventually got that wasn't pick thru or whatever in the mean time. So I better get writing on that. Or no equipment. We intend to create a small museum of these items as well as putting the paper ephemera in our online system at our Library (where Richard works). He loves this stuff and will no doubt be helping with that. So that eventually (barring publishing things under patent, things that are still under manufacture), so you all can view it. Alot of stuff on my plate, on and all that teaching stuff. I'm Prof of Audio in our Digital Media dept, so there's that job getting in my way of reallly havin' fun with this. Tho is teaching audio really a bad thing? Of course there is a DPL-II in the classroom!

Mike... thank you for the generous & comprehensive reply. I also appreciate your comments in our PM's.

Good clarification on the making of the two Fosgate videos on YT. I'm glad there's more to look forward too. As I mentioned elsewhere Lynn Olson & Steve Kennedy have posted extensively about the very early days of Fosgate & Audionics. As for others involved much later I got nothing. Being close to Fosgates home base I bet you can track down some former employees that transitioned from the 101A > Space Matrix > Model #X. That would be interesting.

As a point of interest I'll say that the S&IC and Fosgate 101A is most closely linked to Fosgate. In reality it was Martin Wilcox (the engineer) and Wesley Ruggles Jr. were the developers of the Tate Directional Enhancement System in the early '70s. So it was more team work than usually given credit for. Fosgate obviously had the design & MFG'ering smarts to implement a final product but it was the Tate DES that lifted those products over the mainstream SQ decoders. And BTW, the Tate DES was just that, something to enhance separation after decoding multiple chs. Patents show it could be applied to RM/QS with an even simpler circuit design. Wouldn't that have been cool?

 

[MikeWiz]

Watching this the first time the only name I recognized in the opening credits was Norma Fosgate, Jim's wife. What I didn't know was she followed Jim in passing about a year later:

https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/deseretnews/name/norma-fosgate-obituary?id=39490520
She is listed as Executive Producer but perhaps that is an honorary standing?

And watching it a second time with a second cup 'o coffee this morning I am even more impressed at the contributions, albeit small, from Roger Dressler & Charles Wood. I like the family interviews & esp the round up at the end.

I'd like to remind us that some time ago QQ member @MikeWiz introduced himself & spoke of a project he was working on being a Fosgate documentary. He seems to have abandoned us after that thread but in the film a Mike Wisland is mentioned from the University of Utah & I'm sure they are one and the same. Here's a shout out to Mike, please come back with an update and what about that "treasure trove of schematics" you promised?

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/threads/i-am-totally-new-here-but-a-jim-fosgate-fan.34407/
Interestingly there is already media title Wizard of Foz but it's in regard to track & field at the Uni of Oregon:

https://around.uoregon.edu/content/wizard-foz-dick-fosburys-one-man-high-jump-revolution
And while the film is being produced by Stone House Productions, there already exists an LLC by that name that didn't have anything to do with the documentary:

https://www.stonehouseproductions.com/
At any rate I found this film fascinating & the smaller companion piece on YT about Jim Fosgate's inventions. I mean wouldn't it be cool to have your occupation on a passport listed as "inventor"?

Norma actually passed away within I think 7 weeks of Jim, so the funeral was for both of them. Perhaps she was exec producer because she bought it for him as a present? This was before I became more familiar with them, and it was already done.

 

[MikeWiz]

Mike... thank you for the generous & comprehensive reply. I also appreciate your comments in our PM's.

Good clarification on the making of the two Fosgate videos on YT. I'm glad there's more to look forward too. As I mentioned elsewhere Lynn Olson & Steve Kennedy have posted extensively about the very early days of Fosgate & Audionics. As for others involved much later I got nothing. Being close to Fosgates home base I bet you can track down some former employees that transitioned from the 101A > Space Matrix > Model #X. That would be interesting.

As a point of interest I'll say that the S&IC and Fosgate 101A is most closely linked to Fosgate. In reality it was Martin Wilcox (the engineer) and Wesley Ruggles Jr. were the developers of the Tate Directional Enhancement System in the early '70s. So it was more team work than usually given credit for. Fosgate obviously had the design & MFG'ering smarts to implement a final product but it was the Tate DES that lifted those products over the mainstream SQ decoders. And BTW, the Tate DES was just that, something to enhance separation after decoding multiple chs. Patents show it could be applied to RM/QS with an even simpler circuit design. Wouldn't that have been cool?

Yeah, Jim mentions Wes Ruggles briefly in our doc, and Jim brought him up often in our discussions. We talked about the chips a bit, as he graded them AA's, A's, B's and C's as their separation ratings. Those ended up as suffixes on the Tate 101-A's. I have an A model, Jim's was probably an AA, but there was only a handful of those. I don't recall any mention of Martin Wilcox. IF so it would be on a video somewhere, if at all. I guess if anybody has Lynn Olson and/or Steve Kennedy's contact info, let them know about this thread. My contact info for now is [email protected].

 

[MikeWiz]

Thinking more again on the movie...it would be interesting to get the perspective of business competitors of Fosgate through those years during the development and failures of his products. The movie presented the journey like a benevolent but unfortunate entrepreneur...I wonder if competitors had the same perspective. Like Audionics of Oregon for example. And Sansui with the QS-D1000, etc. I believe that was in the same timeframe.

Yes, I've thought the same thing. That would be very interesting but don't know where to find those folks. I know he had pretty negative feelings towards Harmon as he worked with them on PL-I. I have a photo of (and may inherit) the last check he got from Harmon, long BEFORE the agreement was up. He framed it. Instead of suing them for the remainder he got the ultimate revenge, When he came up with the with the faaar better ckt that became DPL-II, he went of course to Dolby. No way did he ever want to work with Harmon again.

 

[Owen Smith]

@MikeWiz You mention Bob Herndon aka QuadBob being involved with valuing pieces from Jim's estate. A word of warning: QuadBob has a long standing reputation for taking equipment to repair and then never returning it, and ceasing contact with the owner of that equipment. I have no personal stake in this I've never had dealings with him. But there are plenty of reports of problems on this site, and a small number of reports of eventually getting gear back years later (usually not repaired).

 

[Bill B]

Watching this documentary reminded me of an episode of The Simpsons where Homer had invented an alcoholic beverage and his friend, Moe the bartender, was the one that benefited financially.

The punch line was something like:
Homer: "I'm the one that invented the drink".
Moe: "Yeah, but I'm the one that thought of charging $10 for it."

How sad that large, established companies reap the benefits of someone else's ingenuity and hard work. This happens all the time, every day, in every industry.