Jimi Hendrix - "Electric Ladyland" (50th Anniversary Edition with new 5.1 mix on Blu-Ray) 11/9/2018

[sjcorne]

So, um, this could just be a personal preference thing and I don't want to start any panic over nothing, but to me "Crosstown Traffic" makes so much more sense if you swap front right with left rear. Puts the drums more upfront, the vocal and guitar more obviously jump front to back, etc. As is it seems very left side heavy, the vocals and drums seem to favor the left side of my room. Really weird...

So I'm still messing with the files- it's an interesting mix. I tried that swap on a few other tracks and the only one it really improves for me is "Crosstown Traffic". I don't think any authoring/mastering mistakes were made, there's just some stuff I personally would've done differently.

My biggest gripe is that on most tracks, the drums and vocals are kinda everywhere. Actually, the vocals don't really bother me too much- I think that choice works for this album. It gives Jimi's vocals that "larger than life" psychedelic effect that you get when listening on headphones. It's the drums everywhere that, for me, gets a bit distracting and occasionally kinda obscures some cool stuff happening in the mix.

The good- As I was hoping for, there's all kinds of wacky panning and effects moving intermittently throughout the room. On some tracks you can hear all the different guitar runs in different speakers, which is awesome!

Right now I don't think I can go to 10 on this, but I need more time to digest it.

 

[marpow]

I am so screwed up over this order. I ordered the 6 LP box that came damaged, sent it back, but just realized now it was a 6 LP box, canceled my screwup-damaged-box and ordered the 3 CD+Blu Ray. I think my mind has been on The White Album so much I went big (wrong) on Hendrix. Plus from Amazon UK I have the R.E.M BBC Sessions, Mott The Hoople CD box set, and This Was, really fucked up, plus The White Album coming from Japan, and ripping miles of Blu Ray, stay focused Marpow.

 

[4-earredwonder]

It’s amazing how bad the stereo version of VC (SR) sounds after listening to the 5.1 mix.

No bass whatsoever! And my system has no problems with bass in stereo mode where it exists on the source. The 5.1 is thunderous.

It does state on the BD~A/V sleeve that the stereo was derived from the 1/4" Flat masters whereas the 5.1 remix is from the multitracks .... probably 1 or 2" magnetic master tapes. I haven't even bothered playing the 24/96 stereo as I'm still on a HIGH from the 5.1 remix!

Why wreck the buzz?

 

[4-earredwonder]

Just got mine today from BullMoose. Packed safely, nicely, no damage, no bent corners!

I hate to admit this, but like Simon M (above), I am not that familiar with this album. I sorta missed the whole Hendrix thing way back when. Not sure how. I am sure I know most of it by osmosis, but I never have owned this album. So, it's about time, eh?

So as to the nagging question

You can answer NAY! But you WILL BE!

 

[4-earredwonder]

Blu~Ray.com's Review of Electric Ladyland: https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Jimi-Hendrix-Experience-Electric-Ladyland-Blu-ray/215368/#Review

 

[Clint Eastwood]

So I'm still messing with the files- it's an interesting mix. I tried that swap on a few other tracks and the only one it really improves for me is "Crosstown Traffic". I don't think any authoring/mastering mistakes were made, there's just some stuff I personally would've done differently.

My biggest gripe is that on most tracks, the drums and vocals are kinda everywhere. Actually, the vocals don't really bother me too much- I think that choice works for this album. It gives Jimi's vocals that "larger than life" psychedelic effect that you get when listening on headphones. It's the drums everywhere that, for me, gets a bit distracting and occasionally kinda obscures some cool stuff happening in the mix.

The good- As I was hoping for, there's all kinds of wacky panning and effects moving intermittently throughout the room. On some tracks you can hear all the different guitar runs in different speakers, which is awesome!

Right now I don't think I can go to 10 on this, but I need more time to digest it.

Let me give you a disclaimer first....just like your question to me about the FM titles...I'm not trying to argue with you...in fact I usually find your posts interesting...and this one is no exception...with one major problem...I have no problem with all the"armchair QB" analysis of these mixes by posters...the soundwave probes...the isolation of each individual channel..etc..etc...and of course the infamous placement of the instruments....you state that you don't think any authoring/mastering mistakes were made...so then you mention the vocals "are kinda everywhere"...but then you say that the vocals really don't bother you that much...so it comes down to the drums...you don't like the drum placements..OK...I can understand that...everybody has a preference...I can even understand that...

Here is the part that puzzles and drives me crazy...you say right now you don't think you could give this title a 10...and it's the reason that causes my frustration...your reason revolves around this statement..."there's just some stuff I personally would've have done differently"...aside from the fact that a professional worked on this project... who had intimate knowledge of a recording that was 50 years old and the source wasn't in pristine condition by some accounts...and in the opinion of many on here did an amazing job and people were thrilled with the results...can't get a 10 because you don't like the drum placements...

The reason I have a problem with this type of approach is you aren't considering music as an artform...there shouldn't be a "template" of where instruments should be located in the mix...if it were "dumbed" down to that level there would be a lot of boring music....paintings would resemble paint by numbers products...instead of the great masters...music has to have some creative aspects...and it's ironic on here that some want an "adventurous" mix...even you mentioned "wacky panning and effects"..which you liked...but evidently not too adventurous with those pesky drums...I added this smiley so you understand that I'm not scolding you...I may be guilty of pontification...at this point...but I want you to know I'm not head hunting for your scalp

My basic problem is this...we have a title that was mixed by the same man that 50 years before was there in the studio when it was recorded...there is no one on this planet...let alone this forum...that knows this material better than Kramer does...so as much as I have no problem with all the forum analysis...as an extension of our hobby...FOR FUN...when it reaches the stage of penalizing a title for choices that a forum member would have made vs the professional that did the mix...I think it's a case of people taking their own opinions way too serious...especially in a case where no obvious mistakes were made(by your own admission)...it would be like me telling my thoracic surgeon that I saw the procedure on youtube and I think he should do it differently....and yes I know some on here have studio backgrounds...but none of them could equal the knowledge that Kramer has of this specific title....

I guess after seeing the virtual "love fest" for Jakko…the understanding and latitude he was given for a release that was poor...I was a little surprised to see these second guesses on a superb release only 1 day after it's release...the honeymoon is getting shorter and shorter on here..just don't take my post as personal...because it's not...this is the only way I could vent....I should have followed my plan to stay off of here on the weekend...but I'm a glutton for punishment

 

[sjcorne]

Anyone else give the FR/RL swap on “Crosstown” a shot?

 

[H.A.L.]

Finally listened to this! After the WHITE ALBUM, I would have been satisfied with much less -- but it was more.

Totally psychedelic -- just the way I like it! While some complain about the instruments moving around, within tracks, and between them, it seemed an essential part of the experience. A series of experiments strung together, like little vignettes of the possible, but holding together. Fantastic! As a Jefferson Airplane fan (hardly outing myself) I was mesmerized by the "Voodoo Chile" track. Hearing Jack Casady with Jimi in his full glory brought back to me the feel of the best bits of BLESS ITS LITTLE POINTED HEAD, especially "Bear Melt." I'm ecstatic over this one, a 10, equal to the WHITE ALBUM in many different ways, but still its own animal. Thought the organ might have been Stephan Stills, as the Discogs article mentioned, but no, it was someone else (Stevie Winwood!!!). But it was DEFINITELY Jack on bass

 

[himey]

Let me give you a disclaimer first....just like your question to me about the FM titles...I'm not trying to argue with you...in fact I usually find your posts interesting...and this one is no exception...with one major problem...I have no problem with all the"armchair QB" analysis of these mixes by posters...the soundwave probes...the isolation of each individual channel..etc..etc...and of course the infamous placement of the instruments....you state that you don't think any authoring/mastering mistakes were made...so then you mention the vocals "are kinda everywhere"...but then you say that the vocals really don't bother you that much...so it comes down to the drums...you don't like the drum placements..OK...I can understand that...everybody has a preference...I can even understand that...

Here is the part that puzzles and drives me crazy...you say right now you don't think you could give this title a 10...and it's the reason that causes my frustration...your reason revolves around this statement..."there's just some stuff I personally would've have done differently"...aside from the fact that a professional worked on this project... who had intimate knowledge of a recording that was 50 years old and the source wasn't in pristine condition by some accounts...and in the opinion of many on here did an amazing job and people were thrilled with the results...can't get a 10 because you don't like the drum placements...

The reason I have a problem with this type of approach is you aren't considering music as an artform...there shouldn't be a "template" of where instruments should be located in the mix...if it were "dumbed" down to that level there would be a lot of boring music....paintings would resemble paint by numbers products...instead of the great masters...music has to have some creative aspects...and it's ironic on here that some want an "adventurous" mix...even you mentioned "wacky panning and effects"..which you liked...but evidently not too adventurous with those pesky drums...I added this smiley so you understand that I'm not scolding you...I may be guilty of pontification...at this point...but I want you to know I'm not head hunting for your scalp

My basic problem is this...we have a title that was mixed by the same man that 50 years before was there in the studio when it was recorded...there is no one on this planet...let alone this forum...that knows this material better than Kramer does...so as much as I have no problem with all the forum analysis...as an extension of our hobby...FOR FUN...when it reaches the stage of penalizing a title for choices that a forum member would have made vs the professional that did the mix...I think it's a case of people taking their own opinions way too serious...especially in a case where no obvious mistakes were made(by your own admission)...it would be like me telling my thoracic surgeon that I saw the procedure on youtube and I think he should do it differently....and yes I know some on here have studio backgrounds...but none of them could equal the knowledge that Kramer has of this specific title....

I guess after seeing the virtual "love fest" for Jakko…the understanding and latitude he was given for a release that was poor...I was a little surprised to see these second guesses on a superb release only 1 day after it's release...the honeymoon is getting shorter and shorter on here..just don't take my post as personal...because it's not...this is the only way I could vent....I should have followed my plan to stay off of here on the weekend...but I'm a glutton for punishment

When I gave my opinion about Sgt. Pepper being too loud and not as discreet as Love, you got all over my opinion. Giles Martin wasn't mixing the band fifty years ago. You seem to pick and choose your reason for disagreeing with other posters opinions rather than just agreeing to disagree.

 

[Clint Eastwood]

When I gave my opinion about Sgt. Pepper being too loud and not as discreet as Love, you got all over my opinion. Giles Martin wasn't mixing the band fifty years ago. You seem to pick and choose your reason for disagreeing with other posters opinions rather than just agreeing to disagree.

Every situation is different...so the reasons would be different...and your situation was one in which you initially gave it a high score and then suddenly reversed your own opinion...I wanted an explanation...and didn't get one... I don't want to rehash that all over again...my response to sjcorne wasn't aggressive...I went out of my way to illustrate that...it was just friendly banter meant to be explanatory not punitive...

 

[skherbeck]

I’m so frustrated right now!!! My Hendrix was delivered today, I get home, get the key to the postal lock box out of my mailbox, insert said key... and it won’t turn!! I can’t get Jimi out!!

 

[Clint Eastwood]

I’m so frustrated right now!!! My Hendrix was delivered today, I get home, get the key to the postal lock box out of my mailbox, insert said key... and it won’t turn!! I can’t get Jimi out!!

LOL...you won't believe this...but this happened to me with the Tull release...and I will tell you what happened...you were probably given a key in your box to open a parcel locker with a number of the locker on the key chain...in my case it was a two sided label...one side had locker 14...so I tried to open it and it wouldn't...even used a solvent on the lock...still wouldn't open...but on the other side of the key chain was the number 16...someone had left an old tag in and it was simply the wrong locker number...that is why the key wouldn't work....

 

[skherbeck]

LOL...you won't believe this...but this happened to me with the Tull release...and I will tell you what happened...you were probably given a key in your box to open a parcel locker with a number of the locker on the key chain...in my case it was a two sided label...one side had locker 14...so I tried to open it and it wouldn't...even used a solvent on the lock...still wouldn't open...but on the other side of the key chain was the number 16...someone had left an old tag in and it was simply the wrong locker number...that is why the key wouldn't work....

You're lucky it worked out... I only have 2 lock boxes to choose from, and the key doesn't work in either one... I'm hoping my wife can get a word with our mailman this week so I can get that box open! Looks like another night with The Beatles

 

[Clint Eastwood]

You're lucky it worked out... I only have 2 lock boxes to choose from, and the key doesn't work in either one... I'm hoping my wife can get a word with our mailman this week so I can get that box open! Looks like another night with The Beatles

Did you try using some solvent on the lock...it won't hurt it to try..

 

[4-earredwonder]

Opinions are just that ..... observations. We ALL have disparate audio systems and hearing and most of all expectations of what we want to hear! And No one should stand in the way of FREE SPEECH.

Clint also got in MY face when I changed my vote of the Sgt. Pepper remix from a 9 to an 8 [HORRORS!] Like other QQers, I also compared Giles 5.1 remix of Pepper UNFAVORABLY to the LOVE album which I've been reminded over and over again wasn't an OFFICIAL Beatles' album. Of course it wasn't, I keep reminding everyone .... it was purposely CREATED as a soundtrack for a Cirque de Soleil Vegas show but it did point to what could be done with the Beatles' masters in terms of brilliantly creative surround remixes.

AFAIK, no one on the QQ forum is a professional reviewer [save for Kal Rubinson who's a dyed in the wool Classicist]. All our poll votes express OUR personal reaction to a 4.0/5.1/Atmos remix. As Paul Simon mused [paraphrased]: Everyone's ceiling is someone else's floor so we should approach these polls with a grain of salt. But I would assume that a SOLID 10 translates into ALL AROUND EXCELLENCE. A lot of QQers DO play follow the leader and feel compelled to overrate an album due to 'peer pressure....' which, IMO, should NOT be the case. If something genuinely 'irks' you about a remix, let that translate into an equally honest vote. And NO ONE should hold you accountable for being honest.

And I, personally, am tired of being LAMBASTED by insisting that all current remix/remasters should be LOSSLESS and sometimes feel like a lone voice in expressing that opinion. The Majors have been fucking with us for years, giving us substandard 'remasters' in the name of taking our hard earned money. Really, what does it take to access the ORIGINAL MASTERS and give us a bit for bit replica of those analogue master tapes which modern digital technology is MORE than capable of achieving? And if we don't demand it.......then we'll be stuck with buying these SAME inferior analogue 'replicas' over and over again. I have a system with separate components, pricey interconnects, etc. and I can hear the difference in SPADES between LOSSY and LOSSLESS.....and one day when fellow QQers do decide to upgrade to separates, they, likewise, will hear that difference. It's like going from 480p>4K......BELIEVE ME!

Just the way it's impolite to criticize other's taste in music, I think it's likewise anathema to criticize how someone approaches a new Surround Remix. In the final analysis, it would be utterly BORING if we ALL thought alike.

Diversity is what makes QQ Forum so brilliantly attractive. And let's not forget: It's a HOBBY!

As for Clinty: Is he a 10? Well that would mean he's PERFECT ....... and none of us, by design, are PERFECT ...... including little ole ME!

As I've said before: Perfection is a gift ... of the TORMENTED!

 

[sjcorne]

...To me "Crosstown Traffic" makes so much more sense if you swap front right with left rear. Puts the drums more upfront, the vocal and guitar more obviously jump front to back, etc. As is it seems very left side heavy, the vocals and drums seem to favor the left side of my room.

I looked into this further- I really do think this is a great mix, but this track as it is off the disc still bugs me. It sounds so much more logical to me with the diagonal swap. Here's what I found:

Before:

When I first heard this I noticed that the vocals and drums seem to drift towards the left side of my room. In the waveform you can really see how left-side heavy this mix is. Interestingly, the opening doesn't mimic the stereo mix with the drum flying from one side of the room to the other.

I really hate to say this, but as it is it sounds kinda like double-stereo to me. The drums are loudest in both left channels, vocals are in all channels, and the guitar and backing vocals seem to just pan from left to right in simultaneously in both the front and back pairs. When you have it all going at once it sounds sort of surroundy, but it's really a lot of the same left to right action in each pair.

I noticed a number of events that match in front right and rear right, as well as front left and rear left.

• Front left & rear left have the drums at a louder volume, as well as the guitar/kazoo part.
• Front right & rear right have NO TRACE of that opening guitar/kazoo riff, though you can hear it suddenly pulse in/out at key moments. You can also hear Jimi sort of scat/hum the guitar/kazoo rift, which is super cool isolated
• The way the backing vocals move around- once you do the swap, if you isolate one pair you can hear the vocals rapidly pulse in/out like the guitar riffs

I made short MP3 clips of just the rear channels (after the FR/RL swap) to show these instances I mentioned above- I believe this is allowed here, but I will remove the links if it is in fact against the rules in any way.

Backing vocals pulsing in/out mid-pan: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1J7lSAXSrvnEURJ6UmehiSL1s7QCVWGTF
Jimi hum/scat guitar riff: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1z4-flX6nEEU99nv4_pAB_woxX7_8iF1J

Also, if you kick up the center channel 2-3 dB it brings the vocals more towards the front.

After (FR & RL swapped, +3dB center channel):

I just found this to be interesting and thought I'd share. If you don't agree that's okay- not looking to argue. Again, it's a great release ("Watchtower" and "1983" are unbelievable). Don't hesitate to check it out!

 

[markshan]

"there's just some stuff I personally would've have done differently"...aside from the fact that a professional worked on this project... who had intimate knowledge of a recording that was 50 years old and the source wasn't in pristine condition by some accounts

Don't "professionals" work on every release? I guess it's time to shut down the polls, amateur opinions aren't wanted.

 

[skherbeck]

I looked into this further- I really do think this is a great mix, but this track as it is off the disc still bugs me. It sounds so much more logical to me with the diagonal swap. Here's what I found:

Before:
View attachment 36519

When I first heard this I noticed that the vocals and drums seem to drift towards the left side of my room. In the waveform you can really see how right-side heavy this mix is. Interestingly, the opening doesn't mimic the stereo mix with the drum flying from one side of the room to the other.

I really hate to say this, but as it is it sounds kinda like double-stereo to me. The drums are loudest in both left channels, vocals are in all channels, and the guitar and backing vocals seem to just pan from left to right in simultaneously in both the front and back pairs. When you have it all going at once it sounds sort of surroundy, but it's really a lot of the same left to right action in each pair.

I noticed a number of events that match in front right and rear right, as well as front left and rear left.

• Front left & rear left have the drums at a louder volume, as well as the guitar/kazoo part.
• Front right & rear right have NO TRACE of that opening guitar/kazoo riff, though you can hear it suddenly pulse in/out at key moments. You can also hear Jimi sort of scat/hum the guitar/kazoo rift, which is super cool isolated
• The way the backing vocals move around- once you do the swap, if you isolate one pair you can hear the vocals rapidly pulse in/out like the guitar riffs

I made short MP3 clips of just the rear channels (after the FR/RL swap) to show these instances I mentioned above- I believe this is allowed here, but I will remove the links if it is in fact against the rules in any way.

Backing vocals pulsing in/out mid-pan: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1J7lSAXSrvnEURJ6UmehiSL1s7QCVWGTF
Jimi hum/scat guitar riff: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1z4-flX6nEEU99nv4_pAB_woxX7_8iF1J

Also, if you kick up the center channel 2-3 dB it brings the vocals more towards the front.

After (FR & RL swapped, +3dB center channel):
View attachment 36521

I just found this to be interesting and thought I'd share. If you don't agree that's okay- not looking to argue. Again, it's a great release ("Watchtower" and "1983" are unbelievable). Don't hesitate to check it out!

It certainly looks better visually! Looking forward to comparing the two versions (I love this kind of stuff, lol)

 

[Elad]

Have to say I really do not understand wav forms or if something is panning from right to left or backwards or forward, To be honest am not that sophisticated and not sure I want to be, what I do care about is what it sounds like and does the music envelop me. As the name states Surround and that is what I want it to do. Was listening to Grover Washington wineflight on Dvd Audio last night should check it out wow truly amazing. About EL have not received it yet but expect it to assault my senses in a good way. I mentioned this before I respect the people on here some amazing discs were purchased by me on recommendations by others. My point does it sounds good and to me that's all that matters.

 

[Clint Eastwood]

Have to say I really do not understand wav forms or if something is panning from right to left or backwards or forward, To be honest am not that sophisticated and not sure I want to be, what I do care about is what it sounds like and does the music envelop me. As the name states Surround and that is what I want it to do. Was listening to Grover Washington wineflight on Dvd Audio last night should check it out wow truly amazing. About EL have not received it yet but expect it to assault my senses in a good way. I mentioned this before I respect the people on here some amazing discs were purchased by me on recommendations by others. My point does it sounds good and to me that's all that matters.

At the end of the day....sound is all that matters..and titles like Winelight are why we do this...why we spend the time and money