John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band Super Deluxe Edition (New 5.1 & Dolby Atmos mixes!)

[ar surround]

I just auditioned the 5/6 channels on the 7.1 mix and found this. Nothing spectacular by any means, but interesting none the less.

I am thinking that taking the F-R-C-RS-LS of the 7.1 (tossing 5/6) might make the best 5.1 of the lot!

MOTHER: Piano w/Vocal Bleed
HOLD ON: Ambience
I FOUND OUT: Vocal
WORKING CLASS HERO: Ambience
ISOLATION: Bass Drum, Organ, Piano, Ambient Vocals
REMEMBER: Echo Piano, Out of time Vocals
LOVE: Echo Piano, Ambient Vocals
WELL WELL WELL: Bass Drum, Percussion, Vocals
LOOK AT ME: Ambience
GOD: Piano
GIVE PEACE A CHANCE: Ambience
COLD TURKEY: Silent except for a few sections of guitar only (Look at the wav above and you can "see" the guitar)
INSTANT KARMA: Ambience, but almost full background vocals on the chorus

With the 7.1 TrueHD stream of Gimme Some Truth, I use Audacity to combine channel LS with LR and channel RS with RR. The resultant mix sounded very close if not identical to the fold down of the Atmos to 5.1 from the disc. I might try both your method and mine with POB and see which I prefer. (Of course, I would actually have to buy the set first. )

 

[JonUrban]

With the 7.1 TrueHD stream of Gimme Some Truth, I use Audacity to combine channel LS with LR and channel RS with RR. The resultant mix sounded very close if not identical to the fold down of the Atmos to 5.1 from the disc. I might try both your method and mine with POB and see which I prefer. (Of course, I would actually have to buy the set first. )

Good point. Although some of the tracks I do not think would be imp[roved by mixing more ambience back into them, but there are some components that might not be in the 1-2-3-6-7 that are in the 4-5, like that guitar in Cold Turkey. Could be a track by track basis type of thing

 

[DuncanS]

And now a question for which I don't expect an answer... what is the logic in the AVR supposed to do when downmixing the 7.1 to 5.1 and then adding the info that should go to the height channels? Will it average the volume of the back rears with the rears? This should be my case where I have a 5.1.4 setup

I thought Atmos worked by using the Atmos objects and placing them where it needs, but also extracts them from the TrueHD 7.1 so its not 'doubled up', so the 7.1 has the same audio content as Atmos but is not the same mix.

 

[olgitnorm]

As I posted earlier I returned my copy to Amazon, can’t fault their return process, printed a free post return label this morning delivered it to my local post office around 9.30 and by 11.00 had received email from Amazon stating they had refunded my payment card. May look at getting this later if available at lower cost, just feel that if it’s not possible to provide more surround material due to limited resources why make it such an expensive option to get the small amount that was possible.

 

[sjcorne]

I'd like to hear from someone else who tries this to see if I'm on the right track, or just peeing into the tornado!

Not quite the same thing, but I've been messing around with the POB songs from Gimme Some Truth on my PC and was able to get exactly the mix I wanted of "Isolation" using RX's Music Rebalance tool and simple phase cancellation. The sparse nature of the album actually makes it easier to extract stuff like the piano and vocals and reassign them.

Before:

After:

 

[César]

The surround maps have been posted by a SHF (my box is still unopened, most likely will be sent back tomorrow):
https://imgbb.com/Q9mqBYvIn any case, they clearly contradict the waveforms and ear trials done by Jon and maybe point to to an authoring problem? It's clear from the diagrams that Paul Hicks was planning to do a front heavy mix, with close to none information on the rears. So why the heck there's plenty of audio on the back rears in the 7.1 mix, volume matched to the fronts?. And then, million dollar question: why bothering to make an Atmos mix when Hicks really wanted to deliver something closer to a 3.1 view?

 

[J. PUPSTER]

I would guess so.

Very interesting is "Remember". The 5/6 has the vocal but it's like a split second BEFORE the front vocals! I pulled the fronts only, dropped the volume 13 db (!!), then put that in the fronts of a new 6CH wav file, then pasted the 5/6 into the rears of that file and listened closely. The vocals seem to me to be slightly ahead of the main vocal. Maybe it's just my aging ears, but it's pretty strange

SlapAhead Echo -LOL
* Heck, maybe it’s supposed to be there; a kind of studio reverse echo effect. Maybe listen to the stereo versions for something like wide to the sides pre-vox followed by phantom center main vox.

 

[neil wilkes]

Listening now in Atmos. it sound like Hicks basically put the the vocal effects and room in the rear channels. The 5.1 all vocal effects are up front. It’s kind of weird, but cool in a way, not sure what to think off this first listen

Sadly I have to agree here - I am reminded of the '1' 2 Blu-ray set, which I bought not only for the footage but for the promised 5.1 mix, which turned out to have been done by placing PZM mic's on the rear wall of the studio. Not what I would call surround, but there you go.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Ya know, the last thing i really want is another favorite classic 70's release (like Stewart's YOTC) that I have to mess with and put effort into, to sound proper. The futzing about labor used to be included in the price of the release.

 

[ar surround]

Ya know, the last thing i really want is another favorite classic 70's release (like Stewart's YOTC) that I have to mess with and put effort into, to sound proper. The futzing about labor used to be included in the price of the release.

Ditto. They might as well just sell the raw multitracks and let each of us have at it with our own mixes.

 

[atomicdog]

Nitpickers galore. Kudos to the team Yoko has assembled to work on these reissues. The remixes are interesting and the remastering is stunning. Bitch all you want, break out your frequency meters. But the music and the packaging speaks for itself.

 

[sjcorne]

Nitpickers galore. Bitch all you want, break out your frequency meters.

There's really no need to deride those who have expressed dissatisfaction with this release. No one is arguing that the set isn't well put-together and loaded with interesting extras (outtakes, element mixes, evolution mixes, etc), but I'm underwhelmed by the surround mixes and disappointed by the loud, bass-heavy mastering on all the remixes. These are observations based on actual listening, not "frequency meters" (whatever those are?). YMMV.

 

[4-earredwonder]

Face the Music: We've all been terribly spoiled by Dutton Vocalion and those GLORIOUS QUAD remixes from the early to mid 70's ..... at prices THAT CAN'T BE BEAT!

Seems a LOT of surround albums nowadays and even those remixed by Elliot Scheiner in the early 00's NEED A DIGITAL FIX!

And since MOST QQer's do NOT WATCH FILMS which, IMO, are the absolute pinnancle of SURROUND [YOU WANT ALL~ENVELOPING ATMOS ..... LOOK NO FURTHER] well, what can I say!

And for the price of [for instance] the Plastic Ono Band box set, one* could actually purchase 10 Native UHD4K remastered films with Dolby Atmos Soundtracks....with NO digital 'fixes' required! Just sayin'

IMO, except for the Steve Wilsons...and a 'scant' few others, the REAL remix gurus are employed by the Hollywood Studios where the BIG money IS!

*Savvy shoppers

 

[rtbluray]

I don't understand why anyone would expect more from this release.
What can you really do with drums, bass, vocals, and one guitar (or piano) in surround sound?
Not much of anything, that's what.

Anybody who expected more from this release either does not know the record at all or was incredibly naive about what was actually possible.

I'm very happy with the sound quality of this release and the amount of material that is included.
It'll get a '7' from me.

 

[EricKalet]

Face the Music: We've all been terribly spoiled by Dutton Vocalion and those GLORIOUS QUAD remixes from the early to mid 70's ..... at prices THAT CAN'T BE BEAT!

And since MOST QQer's do NOT WATCH FILMS which, IMO, are the absolute pinnancle of SURROUND [YOU WANT ALL~ENVELOPING ATMOS ..... LOOK NO FURTHER] well, what can I say!

AGREED!! Movies have been and probably always will be the surround kings

 

[EricKalet]

I don't understand why anyone would expect more from this release.
What can you really do with drums, bass, vocals, and one guitar (or piano) in surround sound?
Not much of anything, that's what.

Anybody who expected more from this release either does not know the record at all or was incredibly naive about what was actually possible.

I'm very happy with the sound quality of this release and the amount of material that is included.
It'll get a '7' from me.

SPOT ON!!

 

[4-earredwonder]

AGREED!! Movies have been and probably always will be the surround kings

Will be MOST interesting to behold what film director Peter Jackson [Lord of the Rings] accomplishes surroundwise with the [restored] Beatles' GET BACK soundtrack....working from 56 hours of found footage!

 

[César]

I don't understand why anyone would expect more from this release.
What can you really do with drums, bass, vocals, and one guitar (or piano) in surround sound?
Not much of anything, that's what.

Anybody who expected more from this release either does not know the record at all or was incredibly naive about what was actually possible.

I'm very happy with the sound quality of this release and the amount of material that is included.
It'll get a '7' from me.

Well, I guess I had too much hope. Imagine boxset really spoiled me and I was expecting some kind of elements mixes with a much more adventurous mix. They have given us the elements raw material anyway, so they somehow have the multis, but only took the time to work upon them in stereo.
And for the Atmos, again, my fault for being too naive as we already had one half of the album in Gimme some Truth set and the mix was very conservative, politely speaking.
We're very lucky to have this forum where we all can have our educated opinions and in some cases have the chance of previewing the stuff before it arrives to us (Tidal, for example).
Besides, Amazon also gives the chance for a full refund, so we all win. Those we love the album and appreciate the book and owning all the outtakes can keep the album and enjoy. I'm my case, I'll return it and save the 87 euros I spent for the next proper surround release of the year.
Had this been a Floyd release, I'd have probably kept it.

 

[skherbeck]

I don't understand why anyone would expect more from this release.
What can you really do with drums, bass, vocals, and one guitar (or piano) in surround sound?
Not much of anything, that's what.

I used to think that. Then I heard the Steven Wilson 5.1 mix of Rush "A Farewell to Kings".

 

[rtbluray]

I used to think that. Then I heard the Steven Wilson 5.1 mix of Rush "A Farewell to Kings".

Not a good comparison at all...
There's lots of additional synthesizer and percussion parts (and even some additional guitar parts) in "A Farewell to Kings" that makes it a much more suitable candidate for surround sound mixing than "Plastic Ono Band".