HiRez Poll King Crimson - Larks' Tongue in Aspic [DVD-A/BDA]

[wavelength]

(PS...who DARED give this a NINE???? I'd BAN this person..ok, I'm joking, but at least I'd bitch slap him (figuratively)...but seriously.. I'd strip him of ALL THE SURROUND DISCS he has...HEATHEN!!!!!)

I was sorely tempted to vote an 8 or maybe even a 7 just to see what you would do. Okay, I'm joking too. Aharr Mateys! Thems what die will be the lucky ones!

 

[neil wilkes]

very interesting to hear everybody's individual take on what makes a "good" surround mix. I wonder if it would be worth creating a sticky thread that everyone can chip into with their feelings (it may have been done before of course)..?

just the other day quadtrade was saying he and Brad Miller both were of the mind that a surround mix is best achieved in a 4 channel setup, with a phantom centre, as opposed to a 5.1.

I don't know if I fully agree.. as an effective/sympathetic/intelligent 5.1 mix played back on a system with a carefully integrated centre can be stunning and I can think of a good number of commercially released 5.1 surround mixes with lots of centre channel action going on that are as good as any quad mix at imaging and creating an amazing surround soundfield.

the trouble is for every use of 5.1 that does/did get it right, there are another bunch that simply don't/didn't! :yikes

I have to disagree here as well, Fred (and by this I mean disagree with Quadtrade & Brad)- there are valid reasons for a true centre channel as opposed to a Phantom one.
The main one, for me, is that it anchors the mix if done properly - phantom centre can sort of twist or dislocate the soundfield if you listen carefully, losing the main anchor point - and a dedicated centre channel gets around this as well as leaves you with much more flexibility & room.
Some things are best in phantom, but not all - and I honestly believe (note the word "believe" as this is just an opinion of mine) that any 5.1 mixer who avoids the centre channel just does not know how to use it properly.....

 

[0tto]

i agree with Neil. please keep in mind, since 5 channel more than twice of what is offered by the stereo format,
mixer has lots of room to play around with an elements of the mix. in fact 5 channel not really limited to only 5
spots around the listener (LF-C-RF-RS-LS) but unlike stereo, has ability to pan the sound in the between those
main 5 spots, such like to place particular moments of the mix let's say in between RF-RS, where the sound doesn't
come directly from phisical speaker but sort of like phantom on right side of listeners in centre between those 2 speakers.
as for center channel, i really can't see any issues as long as it was well balanced and integrated with rest of the sound's
panorama. after all it is not neccesary to have sound in center on the constant basis. it can be used as channel for sporadic
elements, such like some led instruments or sound effects.

 

[DKA]

I never believed that you are a professional surround engineer and I never had the impression that you were selling yourself as one. My comment was in support of your question as to why the non-Wilson releases don't do it right. It was directed at the professional surround engineers. Sorry for the confusion.

Ah. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Was out of town for a few days, so I just got to this now.

 

[DKA]

The main one, for me, is that it anchors the mix if done properly - phantom centre can sort of twist or dislocate the soundfield if you listen carefully, losing the main anchor point - and a dedicated centre channel gets around this as well as leaves you with much more flexibility & room.

Some things are best in phantom, but not all - and I honestly believe (note the word "believe" as this is just an opinion of mine) that any 5.1 mixer who avoids the centre channel just does not know how to use it properly.....

Couldn't have said it any better.

I think Wilson's mixes get it right because he makes that center channel such a vital part of the mix. Utilizing that center exclusively for vocal and some effects really allows for a mix that breathes and allows for additional elements to shine in those channels. I will never understand how, having multis in hand, a professional mixer chooses to do things such as place lead vocal in all five channels.

I didn't grow up with quad. I do not prefer it to either modern 5.1 or what I can do myself. I'm not a fan in the least of the idea of a phantom center. The center channel is there. Use it to the best of your ability.

 

[sukothai]

any 5.1 mixer who avoids the centre channel just does not know how to use it properly.....

This describes me perfectly @: (and unfortunately, so many others who call themselves "Professionals.") So, I'll continue to do my up-mixes/conversions in quad and leave the 5.1 to to experts. And I do very much enjoy a 5.1 mix done right, I must say.

 

[Ge Someone]

The 5.1 mix is a 10, so is the sound quality. How one rates the content is a matter of personal taste. Although this is a very interesting King Crimson line-up, I reserve the 10 rate for those cases where I also like the music better. This gets a well deserved 9.

[off topic] strange how a good mix gets so many replies about worse (other) surround mixes. Couldn't we stay more on topic in these poll threads?

 

[kap'n krunch]

Diggin' the extras...

Fascinating listening to Jamie's ISOLATED (not specified as so) percussion tracks.

LOL on the aborted start of LTIA Pt.II!

Is it me or is there an extra measure in "Easy money" before John starts singing?

Extreme high quality alert-and on a klassik krimson disk!!! A DVD-A nonetheless, so there!

I rarely give out any 11 out of 10 rating.....

A REAL GEM , this one

 

[Led9]

Amazon says the US release has been delayed again. Maybe I'll get to hear it before the end of the Mayan Calendar.


Rick

 

[grill]

You may want to believe in the hypothesis of some Mayan calendar experts that the calendar doesn't end at all but it simply restarts

 

[kap'n krunch]

Amazon says the US release has been delayed again. Maybe I'll get to hear it before the end of the Mayan Calendar.


Rick

Dang ..that sucks!!!!
I feel for you, man....

I have played this MCH a LOT!!!!
You WILL enjoy it VERY much when you receive it!!!

....you gotta have faith....(the George Micheal is unintended)

 

[milt]

I guess I don't understand why people would not preorder\order from Amazon.uk if they're wanting these releases asap

 

[kap'n krunch]

well, I preordered mine from yamazon, but in the end it cost the same with S&H than Burning Shed , so I decided to give Lisa my business !

 

[milt]

I meant to include Burning Shed, Headphone Dust etc., basically sources that have LTIA sooner and cheaper than Amazon US.

 

[JohnA]

Perfect 10 for sound, 10 for extras too.
Good work guys!

 

[jdmack]

I've now listened to this once. And while I'm happy about most of it (as are most of you, it seems), I have to mention that I've never had to turn down my subwoofer this low for any other 5.1 mix I own. Is the bass level acceptable to you all?

J. D.

 

[uffeolby]

Is the bass level acceptable to you all?

J. D.

More than acceptable, my friend! It is one of the best bass output I have heard on my system - it goes deep but it is still clear and distinct.

Since I hate to fiddle around with the levels between different records, I have calibrated my system so it can play "everything". This means that many records is lacking in bass, since the bass output on many recordings is quite low. However I prefer this to having a wet and undistinct bass on many recordings, and I really get rewarded when I pop in a recording like this - pure audio heaven!

 

[SMS]

I've now listened to this once. And while I'm happy about most of it (as are most of you, it seems), I have to mention that I've never had to turn down my subwoofer this low for any other 5.1 mix I own. Is the bass level acceptable to you all?

J. D.

I recall the bass being very good. Not overly hot.

I found the bass better than on some of the other Crimson releases, where I found it a little weak and I had to increase the LFE setting to my liking.

Unfortunately, I find I quite often have to adjust the LFE channel by ear for many 5.1 hi-res audio disks. I use the Oppo 83SE analog outputs for audio, so I am able to adjust the LFE through the Oppo, and not have the adjustment affect movie/TV watching (which uses HDMI in my system). I know what setting is correct according to "calibration" and I adjust it back when finished.

 

[hwkn]

I voted this mix a 10 also[i'm listening on the Blu ray btw] it's amazingly good.

 

[baphomet]

I voted 9 by accident..it should be 10..please don't ban me :-D

This was one of KC's albums I just couldn't get into for whatever reason in the past...all the originals I had had very muddy sound ...the subtlety of both the stereo and surround on this made me a believer..and felt I finally 'got it' ...now if I could just get myself to give Lizard another try..