Lamb Lies Down on Broadway Box Set?
- Thread starter All Ears
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I think this might be getting confused with an actual Genesis band release?
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Thanks for the DK follow up. I'd kind of written off anything further from Genesis.
As for the live Lamb recordings it took a lot of work and some re-recording by PG (due to wardrobe mic malfunctions and such) to even get the 1975 Shrine Auditorium show onto archives 1970-1975. [I could've attended the Shrine show but I got into Genesis a few months too late]
As for the live Lamb recordings it took a lot of work and some re-recording by PG (due to wardrobe mic malfunctions and such) to even get the 1975 Shrine Auditorium show onto archives 1970-1975. [I could've attended the Shrine show but I got into Genesis a few months too late]
JediJoker
Audio Engineer/Enthusiast
I mean, there are great bootlegs from the Shrine and Groningen that basically dispel the notion that vocals "needed" to be re-recorded. Especially telling is that Gabriel re-recorded the entire show, rather than just the bits that supposedly needed coverage. It's widely accepted that the re-recording was done out of vanity, as Peter just wasn't happy with the way his voice sounded in 1975, especially on tour.
With the publishing sector in free-fall these days, big spreads about an album Like The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway are done in deep co-ordination and co-operation with record labels, so if Record Collector is saying that a deluxe 50th anniversary edition is coming later this year, it's most likely because the author of the story is sitting across the desk from a band or label rep who's just told him that, and not just unsourced rumour or baseless speculation.
Let's hope that this time it's a brand new Atmos remix, and not just a third DSD-sourced PCM reheating of Nick Davis' 2007 remix, which I think is better than its detractors complaints would suggest, but which certainly left something to be desired. An Atmos remix of the 1975 Shrine material with the original PG vocals (treat or tune them as necessary within the bounds of good taste) would make for the perfect ancillary material.
Let's hope that this time it's a brand new Atmos remix, and not just a third DSD-sourced PCM reheating of Nick Davis' 2007 remix, which I think is better than its detractors complaints would suggest, but which certainly left something to be desired. An Atmos remix of the 1975 Shrine material with the original PG vocals (treat or tune them as necessary within the bounds of good taste) would make for the perfect ancillary material.
JediJoker
Audio Engineer/Enthusiast
I really dislike pitch correction applied to vocals that didn't originally have it.
jimfisheye
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There wasn't any technical reason to replace original live elements (lead vocals and guitar solos) in that Lamb concert anymore than there was any technical reason to bury all the lead electric guitar parts in all the 5.1 album remixes. That's just apparently what they (Tony) wanted to do.
The 4 live Lamb tracks that were mixed in 5.1 for bonus tracks on one of the live DVDs are free of those new overdubs. But they have the electric guitar the most buried of all the 5.1 remixes! Weird priorities... That mix left a drum stumble from Phil that most people would understand wanting to edit (as they did in the heavily overdubbed CD version) but, boy o boy, get rid of that electric guitar! That CD version with the overdubs had the guitar mixed just fine though. Maybe Tony and co. genuinely thought some of the original live performances were too sloppy or something? Whatever the reason, the revisionist mixing out of the electric guitar parts in all the 5.1 remixes is just brutal!
Based on hearing those 4 songs in 5.1, I bet this whole show (save for the missing last song - and I imagine the encores were lost as well) could be mixed in surround with all the original tracks and sound powerful and amazing. Edit/produce around any genuinely missing or damaged bits but let the actual original band shine through and let people hear the full bad ass performance! Any worts or blemishes be damned. And that band included an electric guitar... so, you know, it needs to be in the mix.
The 4 live Lamb tracks that were mixed in 5.1 for bonus tracks on one of the live DVDs are free of those new overdubs. But they have the electric guitar the most buried of all the 5.1 remixes! Weird priorities... That mix left a drum stumble from Phil that most people would understand wanting to edit (as they did in the heavily overdubbed CD version) but, boy o boy, get rid of that electric guitar! That CD version with the overdubs had the guitar mixed just fine though. Maybe Tony and co. genuinely thought some of the original live performances were too sloppy or something? Whatever the reason, the revisionist mixing out of the electric guitar parts in all the 5.1 remixes is just brutal!
Based on hearing those 4 songs in 5.1, I bet this whole show (save for the missing last song - and I imagine the encores were lost as well) could be mixed in surround with all the original tracks and sound powerful and amazing. Edit/produce around any genuinely missing or damaged bits but let the actual original band shine through and let people hear the full bad ass performance! Any worts or blemishes be damned. And that band included an electric guitar... so, you know, it needs to be in the mix.
I really dislike pitch correction applied to vocals that didn't originally have it.
I agree in principle, and it's an egregiously overused tool (especially in modern production) but I would argue that used very judiciously it's an incredibly useful tool. "Auto-tune" (or Melodyne) isn't a one size fits all tool, and most of the time when you notice it it's because it's on "phasers set to stun" setting. What I am suggesting is that if there are bum notes, that you go in surgically and fix the the worst offenders, especially if it makes getting PG's approval instead of the re-recorded vocals.
For people who want the unvarnished performance the bootlegs are - and will be - out there in perpetuity. Live albums are still albums after all (and have no responsibility to 100% historical accuracy) and many of the most well-regarded ones have had a bit of sweetening after the fact The best ones often have a kind of ethereal 'dream' quality that's the result of either tracks spliced from different shows, or even songs spliced together from multiple nights, or re-recorded elements etc so I don't see nudging a few bad vocal notes into touch as being much different from that. I also think that this technology has improved so much in the last decade, sort of like digital noise reduction, which had a similarly bad reputation thanks to the overuse of half-baked technology when it first came on the scene, that it should be effectively invisible used properly - no danger of Gabriel sounding like Cher or Justin Bieber or something.
jimfisheye
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Hyper realism extended to a live album is a fine thing! The mix is already hyper realistic. It's not a field recording document on exactly how it sounded from seat 38 in section Phydeaux III.
Yeah, the pop music that is just click track and robot voice. Yeah...
Yeah, the pop music that is just click track and robot voice. Yeah...
JediJoker
Audio Engineer/Enthusiast
I love Melodyne. It's one of my most frequently used tools as an engineer, but I'm not working with vintage recordings. The anachronistic revisionism is what grates, not the judicious use in principle.
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The entire Genesis catalog is due for a good Atmos overhaul. However, I doubt Steven Wilson will be doing these, if they happen. I believe he recently said that he wasn't as big a fan of Genesis as he is of other classic 70's prog bands. However, with Atmos exploding I'm sure there are many other mixing engineers who could step in and do a good job.
It's funny because The Raven That Refused to Sing... and Other Stories just reeks of Genesis influence, even if unintentionally.
He was never really a fan, so I can't see him ever accepting the job. BUT, Stephen Taylor could do it and I'd be very happy.
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