Listening to in Dolby Atmos Streaming, via Tidal/Apple/Amazon

[Franck]

Doesn’t Apple use its own proprietary renderer for Atmos?
https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/pr...atmos-mix-will-sound-different-on-apple-music“

Apple's "Spatial Audio" Mess​

Ok, we have isolated the bad guy as Apple for getting rid of our Binaural Render Mode settings and, therefore, distributing a Dolby Atmos mix on Apple Music that is different from the binaural mix that we set in the studio. However, keep in mind that it is not Apple's fault that the DD+JOC codec removes the Binaural Render Modes; it is a Dolby codec. It is only Apple's fault that they chose not to use the newer AC4-IMS codec that would contain the binaural metadata. There is speculation as to why they made that choice.

However, we can't let Apple off the hook yet, because they threw another curveball in the mix, and that is called "Spatial Audio". It is a mess all by itself, and I get into more details in my book "Mixing in Dolby Atmos - #1 How it Works". Here are the important facts that you have to be aware of:

• Apple is using their own Renderer called "Spatial Audio" to playback Dolby Atmos mixes that are delivered to your Apple device as a DD+JOC codec.
• Any Dolby Atmos mix that you listen to on Apple Music is played back by Apple's own Renderer and does not (!) use the Dolby Renderer that you are using when monitoring your Dolby Atmos during mixing.
• The only exception is when playing back Apple Music content on the AppleTV through the HDMI output connected to a Dolby Atmos capable AV receiver or soundbar. In that case, you are listening to the Dolby Renderer and not the Apple Renderer.
• Apple is using the original Dolby Atmos mix in the form of the encoded DD+JOC file, but their own Renderer, the spatial audio engine, creates a Headphone Virtualization (their form of Binaural Audio) and Speaker Virtualization (for playing on their supported iPads and Macs). It is more like a "spatial interpretation" of your Dolby Atmos mix, and there is no "Apple Spatial Audio Emulation" button that you can enable while creating your Dolby Atmos mix. Bottom line, you are mixing blind for Apple Music because you don't know how your Atmos mix will sound.”

My understanding is that Dolby does not offer head tracking, therefore Apple had to do it using their own renderer to work with Apple Airpods.

Additionally, Apple render Atmos on a variety of devices (Mac Laptops for one) where speakers are not in the standard Dolby locations... etc..

In Logic you can choose the Dolby Renderer or the Spatial Audio Renderer (with or without head tracking and using the AirPod HRTF improvement).

 

[The Bright Side]

New to Tidal today here in AU:

Madonna - Immaculate Collection (Atmos Mix) Tidal ID: 292439711
Leon Bridges - Good Thing (Deluxe) Tidal ID: 291780333
Jenny Owen Youngs - OFFAIR: from the forest floor Tidal ID: 291790794
ARTEMIS - In Real Time Tidal ID: 291790675
Freya Ridings - Blood Orange Tidal ID: 269990312
María Dueñas - Beethoven and Beyond Tidal ID: 291778464
Madison Cunningham - Revealer (Deluxe Edition) Tidal ID: 292819676
Q - Soul,PRESENT Tidal ID: 292766476
Ed Sheeran: - (Deluxe) Tidal ID: 291858685

I didn't see anyone post this from last week:
Smokey Robinson - Gasms Tidal ID: 290287173

From the hellz to the yeeeeee boi! Enjoying the f*ck out of this Madonna album, which I've had in my CD collection for, I'd say, 25ish years. What a pleasant surprise! I was concerned this might be a dud, but I'm a few tracks in now and it's just pefrect on my 5.1 system, both in terms of sound quality and mix. Oh, and those two extended tracks are very welcome. Makes you wonder, though, why they picked them and included none of the other full-length versions.

 

[The Bright Side]

i have to say, for me these are great times in our hobby. i remember the old days where we would all bemoan "where's those cancelled Madonna 5.1's?", "will we ever hear Michael Jackson's Thriller in Surround!?", "some Lady Gaga in Surround would be a hoot!" and now we have all that and much much more in Atmos.

ok, so maybe not everyone was clamouring for these artists in Surround but a lot of people were and now that we've got them, are they the most shining examples of Surround Music? for me, no but (but but!) it's so wonderful they even got mixed and released at all given how unlikely they were in leaner times!!

This is pretty much the exact monologue that's been playing in my head day-in day-out ever since I signed up for TIDAL. what a great time to be alive :-D

 

[fredblue]

 

[fredblue]

 

[fredblue]

 

[fredblue]

 

[AYanguas]

Doesn’t Apple use its own proprietary renderer for Atmos?

Yes, but it only affects the binaural playback.

The only difference is that Tidal (FireTV stick) sends DD+JOC, but AppleTV sends Dolby MAT.

I would think the result will be the same in the AVR, as both are Dolby rendered, but there could be a difference in volume level (higher for Apple), which is more pleasant.

Perhaps Apple, beeing aware of our complaints of Tidal low volume by the erratic setting of "dialnorm", has implemented a volume increase compensation in its Apple TV

 

[LennonCobain]

https://tidal.com/track/242746604

On Tidal this has a different release name and artwork.
https://tidal.com/album/291651809

 

[J. PUPSTER]

The only difference is that Tidal (FireTV stick) sends DD+JOC, but AppleTV sends Dolby MAT.

I would think the result will be the same in the AVR, as both are Dolby rendered, but there could be a difference in volume level (higher for Apple), which is more pleasant.

Perhaps Apple, beeing aware of our complaints of Tidal low volume by the erratic setting of "dialnorm", has implemented a volume increase compensation in its Apple TV

Apple could sure use some work between Atmos and Stereo songs in regards to volume levels; I get woke up too many times listening to some of this stuff!
My beauty sleep is paramount gosh dang it.

 

[IMachine]

 

[IMachine]

 

[TheAbsentMind]

Thanks for these.

Jesse Owen Youngs is a fine singer-songwriter. This release fell under my radar. I was thrown by the “New Age” marketing tag. It strikes me much more as, well, singer-songwriter without the vocals. But maybe I’m biased about these two genres, for whatever labels mean. So far I’m hearing great, thoughtful finger-picking and the grounded sound of fingers on nylon strings. I’ll listen more completely when I’ve got some time for the surround itself.

This other release… never heard of her. I’ve only listened to Sunshine Over the Counter so far and it’s got me excited for the whole thing. I’ll passively listen to it whole now and am excited for an active listen in surround later, even if the genre (my wheelhouse) suggests an understated mix.

Once again: we’re a world away from being limited to speculating what obscurity might make it out of a vault and whether we will budget budget for it. Now random fresh releases just fall in our lap… courtesy of this thread, in my case.

 

[fredblue]

wow.. so intrigued to see how this compares to the old 5.1 SACD..

edit: just giving the Atmos a first spin/stream.. there's more panning and it's a fuller sound, more immersive and expansive than the old 5.1, which is also on Apple Music in Dolby Audio, handy for making comparisons

do we know who mixed it? they did a good job, i reckon, Bruce!

'nuther edit: just realised checking out the QQ Poll for the old SACD, it's one i never voted in/for. not normally a good sign, which can only mean the Atmos is superior!

 

[fredblue]

Thanks for these.

Jesse Owen Youngs is a fine singer-songwriter. This release fell under my radar. I was thrown by the “New Age” marketing tag. It strikes me much more as, well, singer-songwriter without the vocals. But maybe I’m biased about these two genres, for whatever labels mean. So far I’m hearing great, thoughtful finger-picking and the grounded sound of fingers on nylon strings. I’ll listen more completely when I’ve got some time for the surround itself.

This other release… never heard of her. I’ve only listened to Sunshine Over the Counter so far and it’s got me excited for the whole thing. I’ll passively listen to it whole now and am excited for an active listen in surround later, even if the genre (my wheelhouse) suggests an understated mix.

Once again: we’re a world away from being limited to speculating what obscurity might make it out of a vault and whether we will budget budget for it. Now random fresh releases just fall in our lap… courtesy of this thread, in my case.

anytime! it's easy to see why this is amongst the more active threads here at QQ, for sheer quantity of new Surround Music alone these are special times but thankfully there's some really cool stuff in there i doubt many of us might have ever heard without this all happening!!

 

[fredblue]

'cking hell it's a complete re-recording!! no wonder it sounds so much better than the old 5.1!!

 

[IMachine]

The Simply Red mixes are also very good.

 

[fredblue]

The Simply Red mixes are also very good.

yes! they are nice mixes and i've enoyed those tracks released so far. it's mystified me how relatively low his reputation is here in his home country these days really, he's a talented guy with a great voice.. my dear old Dad used to love him

 

[LennonCobain]

My observations of Madonna - The Immaculate Collection:

• The following tracks are upmixes/double stereo/all channel stereo (whatever term you prefer):
  • Lucky Star
  • Borderline
  • Into The Groove
  • Like A Prayer
  • Vogue
• If you listen to the album on a 5.1 setup vs. Atmos, you will be essentially listening to a 4.0 mix
  • No tracks utilize the center channel
  • I only notice very slight use of the LFE channel on the following tracks:
    • Like A Virgin
    • Open Your Heart
    • Justify My Love

Other than the 5 tracks that are not discrete mixes, I am generally pleased. I wonder if there is an issue with the availability of the multitracks for these 5 songs. Or perhaps a different immersive mix engineer is responsible for the Atmos mix (there are no immersive mix engineer credits on Tidal).

 

[admsh]

yes! they are nice mixes and i've enoyed those tracks released so far. it's mystified me how relatively low his reputation is here in his home country these days really, he's a talented guy with a great voice.. my dear old Dad used to love him

Preach! These mixes are great and I'm a bit more excited for this now that there are three songs. But tbf it just makes my appetite stronger for the first four albums.