HiRez Poll Loggins and Messina - LOGGINS AND MESSINA [SACD]

[Lute]

Together again, at last, Brett. I even asked Markie (Marpow) if he had your email. Really hope he pops in from time to time. REALLY glad I did.

BTW, I also gave Loggins and Messina a '9!' Sounds really fantastic on my system and especially love Angry Eyes.

Angry Eyes never sounded better. It was sure nice to also watch & listen to that 2005 Santa Barbara concert DVD mixed by Elliot Scheiner.

Thanks for the tip on Migration! Action taken. :upthumb

Yes, let's hope Markie and (don't forget) Derek make their way over here.
:teleport: Beam on over fellas! :teleport:

 

[quicksrt]

In the 70s there were these albums that sounded warmer or maybe what could be considered duller sounding albums. Tapestry, and some James Taylor albums sounded this way.

There are moments when I hear an acoustic or electric guitar part of drum cymbal or something with high end in it that shines right through it all. Since I can hear the bits of brassy sounds here and there just fine, it convinces me that the warmer and duller sound heard on some areas is the way this album was intentionally mixed. It's not the brighter sounding album Full Sail is that's for sure. I would hope that when that album appears on SACD it sounds bright like it always has.

I have not voted yet, but when I do I doubt I'll have any issues to note on the 70s singer songwriter sound of this album.

 

[fredblue]

Angry Eyes never sounded better. It was sure nice to also watch & listen to that 2005 Santa Barbara concert DVD mixed by Elliot Scheiner.

Thanks for the tip on Migration! Action taken. :upthumb

Yes, let's hope Markie and (don't forget) Derek make their way over here.
:teleport: Beam on over fellas! :teleport:

I LOVE this SACD, it has the same warm laid-back presentation of the SQ LP and now it is truly discrete from the master tapes (no more SQ quirks and the vinyl anomalies/features!) that is more than good enough for me that I won't go looking for any alternatives for this album here on in.

Well Brettle.. I've been going on about QQ over at that place (and at the SHF) the last few years so loads of you guys should have made your way over here by now.. I don't know what took some of you so long.. yes, RALPHIE.. I mean at one point I practically begged rammie (ain't too proud to beg!) ah well, better late than never..!!!

Seriously, it would be very cool if we could get Mark, Derek and all the SA-CD forum crew here, there were some great discussions over there in the "good old days" that didn't make it here.. I can't believe they have done what they have done to that site.. anyway I don't want to get into all that here, lets hope we see more of you SA-CD-ers here -- SOON!
Beam them up rammie..! Haha.. :upthumb

 

[fredblue]

In the 70s there were these albums that sounded warmer or maybe what could be considered duller sounding albums. Tapestry, and some James Taylor albums sounded this way.

There are moments when I hear an acoustic or electric guitar part of drum cymbal or something with high end in it that shines right through it all. Since I can hear the bits of brassy sounds here and there just fine, it convinces me that the warmer and duller sound heard on some areas is the way this album was intentionally mixed. It's not the brighter sounding album Full Sail is that's for sure. I would hope that when that album appears on SACD it sounds bright like it always has.

I have not voted yet, but when I do I doubt I'll have any issues to note on the 70s singer songwriter sound of this album.

Well said my friend, it is that wonderful "70s singer songwriter sound" that I love about so many of these old Quads that AF are resurrecting .. you can just crank and crank and crank the volume on so many of them and your ears don't hurt.. that's super audio alright!

 

[4-earredwonder]

I LOVE this SACD, it has the same warm laid-back presentation of the SQ LP and now it is truly discrete from the master tapes (no more SQ quirks and the vinyl anomalies/features!) that is more than good enough for me that I won't go looking for any alternatives for this album here on in.

Well Brettle.. I've been going on about QQ over at that place (and at the SHF) the last few years so loads of you guys should have made your way over here by now.. I don't know what took some of you so long.. yes, RALPHIE.. I mean at one point I practically begged rammie (ain't too proud to beg!) ah well, better late than never..!!!

Seriously, it would be very cool if we could get Mark, Derek and all the SA-CD forum crew here, there were some great discussions over there in the "good old days" that didn't make it here.. I can't believe they have done what they have done to that site.. anyway I don't want to get into all that here, lets hope we see more of you SA-CD-ers here -- SOON!
Beam them up rammie..! Haha.. :upthumb

Well, AB, now that you're a vinyl "fetishist" with ALL those nasty ticks and pops and azimuth nightmare problems, maybe you can fully appreciate the miracle of GREAT DIGITAL. As I once 'joked' on SA~CD.net: Why would I ever go back to vinyl when I look SO much better in Leather!

I think in time Markie and Derek will likewise 'trek' over to QQ without being beamed up.

I won't have Muscle of Love nor the Judy Collins Color of the Day SACDs until after the 11th of December. I am looking forward to both of them. I desperately want Bette Midler's The Divine Miss M on QUAD SACD as I have the fantastic sounding Quad Open Reel.

Here's hoping 2016 unearths more of those QUAD treasures!

Ralph

 

[fredblue]

Well, AB, now that you're a vinyl "fetishist" with ALL those nasty ticks and pops and azimuth nightmare problems, maybe you can fully appreciate the miracle of GREAT DIGITAL. As I once 'joked' on SA~CD.net: Why would I ever go back to vinyl when I look SO much better in Leather!

I think in time Markie and Derek will likewise 'trek' over to QQ without being beamed up.

I won't have Muscle of Love nor the Judy Collins Color of the Day SACDs until after the 11th of December. I am looking forward to both of them. I desperately want Bette Midler's The Divine Miss M on QUAD SACD as I have the fantastic sounding Quad Open Reel.

Here's hoping 2016 unearths more of those QUAD treasures!

Ralph

I'm finding the ticks and pops (and azimuth what the jajoba is that?) less of an issue as I get new or mint records and/or give the used ones a bloody good scrub before playing!

For some of them there's no hope and they are rice krispies riddled (and for others where the inner groove distortion is just agony on the ears, previous owners must have wrecked the records for good!) but I'll pick up a better copy in time of those that warrant an upgrade.

I'm an almost reluctant advocate for a format that I too had given up on altogether for so many reasons.. but in order to hear many of these old Quads, unless AF can pull off more miracles and get things like this Loggins Quad out its one of the only ways to do it legit by buying up old vinyl and decoding and transferring the results yourself (and you know how knocked out I am by the abilities of the new SQ Surround Master.. if that little box was around in 1974 I think SQ's fortunes could have been very different..)

 

[Lute]

I'm finding the ticks and pops (and azimuth what the jajoba is that?) less of an issue as I get new or mint records and/or give the used ones a bloody good scrub before playing!

For some of them there's no hope and they are rice krispies riddled (and for others where the inner groove distortion is just agony on the ears, previous owners must have wrecked the records for good!) but I'll pick up a better copy in time of those that warrant an upgrade.

I'm an almost reluctant advocate for a format that I too had given up on altogether for so many reasons.. but in order to hear many of these old Quads, unless AF can pull off more miracles and get things like this Loggins Quad out its one of the only ways to do it legit by buying up old vinyl and decoding and transferring the results yourself (and you know how knocked out I am by the abilities of the new SQ Surround Master.. if that little box was around in 1974 I think SQ's fortunes could have been very different..)

There have been several times when I've seriously thought about getting one of those Surround Masters and getting back into vinyl like yourself. I even wrote to those guys to get info on it, which they were kind enough to send. But...Classical and other MCH releases keep me so tied up that I never seem to have the time (or cash ) There is so much music out there! I certainly do enjoy reading your and others' discussions on these old treasures, though.

And I have got my turntable to LOOK AT. arty

 

[alk3997]

The 2015 AudioFidelity 4.0 SACD release of the self-titled Loggins and Messina album is sourced from the 1972 Columbia Records quadraphonic album tapes. The most well-known tracks from the album are "Your Mama Don't Dance" as well as "Angry Eyes". The quad transfer to SACD was performed by Gus Skinas.

The quad mix itself holds up surprisingly well given that it was made close-to 45 years ago. It has a nice balance to it with the lead vocals in the center of the front channels. The instruments don't fly around the room for no reason and even the use of the rears for occasional vocals keeps the sound balanced. My "props' to Larry Keyes who made the original mix all those years ago. Wish you had done more of the quad mixes of that era. Supervisor (producer) of the original quadraphonic recording was Al Lawrence.

The sonics, however, leave much to be desired. There is a bit of a rise in the mid-bass region. But, the real loss in sonic quality is in the high end. The highs sound muffled. They are there but just not in the clarity I would expect from a 1972 recording, particularly in the vocals and the cymbals.

There are a number of ways this could have happened. It could be that the source material wasn't that good - bad recording equipment originally. It could be that the quad recording was sourced from a multi-generation transfer. It could be that Dolby A noise reduction was used incorrectly. It could be that the playback tape machine wasn't equalized properly to match the original multitrack recorder. It could have been an RIAA curve that was incorrectly applied to the master quad tape. It could be a lot of things but the bottom line is that the highs just aren't there and the lowest bass is limited as well, which that mid-bass bump kind-of hides. Other 4.0 SACDs from this era have had better sonic quality.

Music-wise, maybe not my favorite album of the era but certainly not painful to listen to either. But, this album is good enough that almost 45 years later there was enough interest to remaster for 4.0 SACD.

Overall I'm giving Loggins and Messina an 8. I was wavering towards a 7 but the other comments convinced me it should be an 8 and the outstanding original mix really does make it an 8. The number would have been higher had the high end been restored.

Andy

 

[fredblue]

Sorry to be a party pooper alk3997 but Larry Keyes couldn't have overseen the transfer to SACD the poor bloke's been dead for nearly 10 years.

Larry Keyes engineered the original Quad mix of this album in the 70's (as is on this SACD) along with many many other great Quad mixes.

Such a shame he is no longer with us, he would be thrilled I'm sure at the reappraisal of his work since AF have been giving it a new lease of life on Surround SACD.

 

[fredblue]

Oh ps. the "supervised by" bit means that person was (rather cryptically if you ask me) actually the Producer on the original Quad mix and the engineer role is of course the chap who remixed it, as explained by bmoura on here one time..

...although there are some instances where apparently the wrong guy got the credit (according to Jim Reeves, he mixed several Quads that were credited to other engineers on the album's artwork for some reason.. like the Sly & The Family Stone G.Hits Quad, which credits Larry Keyes but was apparently mixed by Jim Reeves.. all rather confusinggggg...!! )

 

[alk3997]

Sorry to be a party pooper alk3997 but Larry Keyes couldn't have overseen the transfer to SACD the poor bloke's been dead for nearly 10 years.

Larry Keyes engineered the original Quad mix of this album in the 70's (as is on this SACD) along with many many other great Quad mixes.

Such a shame he is no longer with us, he would be thrilled I'm sure at the reappraisal of his work since AF have been giving it a new lease of life on Surround SACD.

I will correct my review (it's now corrected). Thank you!

I just reread the back of the SACD jewel case and realized what they were trying to say. My bad...

Andy

 

[fredblue]

And I have got my turntable to LOOK AT. arty

As Mae West might've said: "Don't just look at it darling, play with it!!"

"Why did the Supermodel stare at the carton of orange juice?
...because it said "CONCENTRATE" on the label.."

WOCKA WOCKA WOCKA..! :ugham:

(Seriously I'm a technological dipstick and I am coming up with some fairly listenable SQ LP approximations of old Quads thanks to the Surround Master, a clapped out turntable and a hot mother of a MOTU interface.. if I can do it, anyone can do it - especially Y-O-U..! )

 

[fredblue]

I will correct my review (it's now corrected). Thank you!

I just reread the back of the SACD jewel case and realized what they were trying to say. My bad...

Andy

Brillo! Thanks!

I hate to be a pedantic prat in those kinds of situations and I know how irritating it can be when some rapscallion like moi comes along with a whole 6 months of SQ LP knowledge under his belt (haha!!) and starts trying to proverbially "tell grandpa/grandma" how to suck Quad eggs.. but its a bit like a History student really studying hard to get the grades at school or something, I wasn't there at the time but I am absolutely immersed in this hobby now like there's no tomorrow - all my recreational reading is about surround music and lately all my free time has been dedicated to old Quad records, the history and backstory to them and so on.. so this kind of trivia about the great men of the Quad era who made what we all enjoy listening to actually happen (like the late Larry Keyes) is very much in the forefront of my mind these days (and I'm an OCD loony who once he spots a mistake is like a dog with a bone that won't let go, so that has to be factored in there too.. lmao! :yikes )

 

[alk3997]

I always appreciate learning new things. So, you have my sincere thanks.

For what it is worth, when I see Larry Keyes' name now, it will have more significance. That is thanks to what you took the time to write.

So, thank you again!

Andy

P.S. Given the amount of times I've corrected myself, it's not surprising that someone else would spot something, too! The goal is perfection but that doesn't mean we actually hit it. If you ever want confirmation of that, try to make a 5.1-channel mix that sounds good no matter the setup.

 

[fredblue]

I always appreciate learning new things. So, you have my sincere thanks.

For what it is worth, when I see Larry Keyes' name now, it will have more significance. That is thanks to what you took the time to write.

So, thank you again!

Andy

P.S. Given the amount of times I've corrected myself, it's not surprising that someone else would spot something, too! The goal is perfection but that doesn't mean we actually hit it. If you ever want confirmation of that, try to make a 5.1-channel mix that sounds good no matter the setup.

Over 40 Quad mixes to Larry Keyes' name alone collated so far by QQ members steelydave, fizzywiggs41 and co. in this here little thread..

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...-UNSUNG-HEROES&p=272272&viewfull=1#post272272

 

[Lute]

As Mae West might've said: "Don't just look at it darling, play with it!!"

"Why did the Supermodel stare at the carton of orange juice?
...because it said "CONCENTRATE" on the label.."

WOCKA WOCKA WOCKA..! :ugham:

(Seriously I'm a technological dipstick and I am coming up with some fairly listenable SQ LP approximations of old Quads thanks to the Surround Master, a clapped out turntable and a hot mother of a MOTU interface.. if I can do it, anyone can do it - especially Y-O-U..! )

Well, come up and see me sometime...big boy!

You know, Adam...I haven't played my LPs in years...decades! :yikes Yikes!

They might be in their "vinyl" resting place. LOL!

WOCKA WOCKA WOCKA! @:

 

[kap'n krunch]

Hey now! kap'n unleashing a little classic SQ10?

Don't know what you are talking about!

Awwww, come on..one negative opinion..I said I LIKED the disc...just don't like what this guy did (or didn't do) to it!
Honestly, it sounds like a Q8 transfer...

The Sly one, OTOH , sounds MUCH better...

 

[hirez]

I've listened to this album enough now to realize it is more weak country and western than I like. I enjoyed it immensely when it originally came out but now it it is too country for me. I like some country but not this kind of country. I am voting a 5, because I consider that an 8 is every thing I expect and 9/10 exceeds my expectations. This album fails musically. Angry Eyes undoubtedly the best track on the album is superb sonically, musically, and surroundwise and the only reason the disc gets a 5..

 

[dr8track]

I'm very familiar with this album in stereo, in quad and in concert. Loggins & Messina were on the concert circuit when I was in college. I saw them at least a couple of times. Not always because they were the group I wanted to see. J Geils band during the Full House era opened for them in Portland, Oregon. great concert.
I'm loving the quad release. I enjoy the less country-ish tunes more than those with a country flair. Very discrete. Great album. I give it a 9.

 

[par4ken]

This was not one of LP's that I listened to back in the day. I never cared for "Your Mama Don't Dance". Still l found the content of this SACD to be a pleasant surprise. Excellent sound, as expected from an album sourced from Columbia. I wouldn't call the vocals dull or muffled as some others do, but I understand what they are saying; just don't think that brighter vocals would improve things any. At times they remind me of Crosby Still & Nash at other times James Taylor with even a bit of Poco thrown in.