Lou Dorren: A new CD-4 Demodulator!!! [ARCHIVE]

QuadraphonicQuad

Help Support QuadraphonicQuad:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Best wished to all. I don't know if it has been reported here, but Lou died last October.

He had made up some prototype boards for the demodulator, and he had even purchased some parts for the final product (meters, cartridges). I don't know exactly where the design drawings and PCB layouts are, the executor of the estate really doesn't really have any electronics (or computer) experience, so some of this may be lost.

If you post questions here, I may be able to answer them. I knew Lou for over 40 years.

...Herby
 
Wow. That is indeed sad news. Last October?

Lou used to call me out of the blue. He would tell me of his medical struggles, but asked that I not mention them in the forum. I know he really wanted to do the demodulator but between his health issues and his real business, it was a time thing mainly. Whenever I would talk to him (he always called me, I never called him) he would be so enthusiastic and tell me about his projects with his label and his work in getting surround back to WB and other labels. It's very very sad to hear.

I used to get upset when members would get annoyed about his lack of delivery but he asked that I not mention his health issues in the detail he told me and I had to keep that to myself.

It's strange when you interface with people you never met, and don't really have a pipeline to. When something happens to them, you never know until it finally filters down to you. It was the same with Cai and who knows how many QQ members over the past 13 years who used to post a lot and now don't. Makes you wonder.

Thanks so much herby for letting us know. Sorry for the loss. The loss to the entire surround sound community. Lou was indeed a Pioneer.
 
I'm also saddened to hear of Lou's passing. Jon, thanks so much for keeping us up to date as best you could over the years about this. I haven't been around awhile myself, but I'm going to try to do better. Those of us who are Quad/Surround fans should keep up with each other. We are few and far between these days. Lou's passing makes me realize just how long ago the glory days of Quadraphonic sound were. May he rest in peace.
 
This is kind of what I thought had happened. It saddens me. I guess this closes the chapter on the Dorren demodulator. I wonder if he ever produced a working prototype? What happened to his records? Could it be possible for someone to carry out his work? I wonder why it took so long to find out about his death? Rest in Peace, Lou.
 
Somebody should post his birth and death dates on his Wikipedia page so people who aren't a member of the various forums will know - and write up a chapter about his health struggles in his final days.

Also might want to let the gang on the other forums (Audiokarma Steve Hoffman Tapeheads etc) know since all of their Dorren threads are still talking about him as if he were still alive.

It's kind of creepey come to think of it that we were doing the same thing just this past Christmas and he'd already been gone three months by then.
 
It's sad to lose Lou. Nice guy, an innovator, and always friendly to quad people. Last year or maybe longer, a lot of people here were urging our friends at Involve Audio to see if they could make an arrangement to manufacture Lou's updated CD-4 demodulators. I believe some communication happened, and then the proposed project was sidelined.
 
This is a sad news, not just because of the demodulator, but because of the loss of real hero to the music/audiophile community. Just by reading Mr.Dorrens posts you could decipher a real innovator, gentleman and professional. This is like loosing a
Hall-of-famer from the sports world. Lou was one of the best in his business....ever. I read this thread every day for over three straight years to get the latest news on the CD4 demodulator. Now it seems all hope is lost. God bless you Mr.Dorren and your family.
 
I just read through this thread (and deleted a few thread craps along the way as this is our connection forever to Lou) and it's such a shame that he had such health problems. He was so full of energy and enthusiasm, both for this project, his label and his acts such as the Beau Brummels. When I talked to him he seemed so proud of his current work with that group and a new CD he had engineered with them. I know for sure that he really wanted to get this project done and it did mean a lot to me. He would always apologize that his health or his work precluded his time working on the demodulator, and he emphatically told me he did not want to make one dime on the project, and would not accept any money until the units were ready to be assembled and shipped.

People like Lou Dorren, Ben Bauer, Brad Miller. These guys and others must be remembered by people like us because they are unknown to the average Joe and person on the street. Yet, without these guys and countless others, we'd never have been exposed to the audio we all love and enjoy today.

Besides, if it were not for the quad pioneers, just think how much more money we'd all still have lying around! :)
 
...quad pioneers...
Pioneer never had CD-4 - or certainly never very good if it was.
When I talked to him he seemed so proud of this project.
Waaaaay back when I was doing my master's thesis on the feasability of CD-4 DMM - i.e. conventional 16 RPM for 33 playback - HE's the one that called ME two or three times and told me to
1. try for 33-for-45 playback and `around whom' could be found some helpful documentation regarding cutterheads as well as CD-4 modulators
2. That - like much of his own career - if I kept on this road of mostly-noncommercially-viable niche products - I was certainly going to be treated as if I were the lone clean fish in a pond full of scuzz - and then only by the other lone clean fishes living in their own ponds of scuzz (most of the population here, and on VinylEngine and Audiokarma and etc etc etc in comparison to the ``civilian'' world).
3. It would probably work esp with the long sides capable in DMM (gleaned from his work on the CED videodisc project at RCA which used DMM)
4. To research the Lawrence Berkeley Laboratories and get with Carl Haber's team and
5. start making friends now with the 45-for-45 single sided and etc audiophile/avant-garde production groups.

So we are still going ahead with CD-4 DMM 33-for-45 playback ALL ANALOG MASTERING CHAIN on 180 gram (single sided or not we haven't decided yet - but if so then we could make picturediscs or etched discs) - and going to dedicate the whole project to Lou, Brad and Greg (Bogantz) all of whom gave such a great deal of their time and talents (posthumously and by second or third-hand recollections in Brad's case) that every record we make if we make em is going to contain homages to all three men.
 
Pioneer never had CD-4 - or certainly never very good if it was.Waaaaay back when I was doing my master's thesis on the feasability of CD-4 DMM - i.e. conventional 16 RPM for 33 playback - HE's the one that called ME two or three times and told me to
1. try for 33-for-45 playback and `around whom' could be found some helpful documentation regarding cutterheads as well as CD-4 modulators
2. That - like much of his own career - if I kept on this road of mostly-noncommercially-viable niche products - I was certainly going to be treated as if I were the lone clean fish in a pond full of scuzz - and then only by the other lone clean fishes living in their own ponds of scuzz (most of the population here, and on VinylEngine and Audiokarma and etc etc etc in comparison to the ``civilian'' world).
3. It would probably work esp with the long sides capable in DMM (gleaned from his work on the CED videodisc project at RCA which used DMM)
4. To research the Lawrence Berkeley Laboratories and get with Carl Haber's team and
5. start making friends now with the 45-for-45 single sided and etc audiophile/avant-garde production groups.

So we are still going ahead with CD-4 DMM 33-for-45 playback ALL ANALOG MASTERING CHAIN on 180 gram (single sided or not we haven't decided yet - but if so then we could make picturediscs or etched discs) - and going to dedicate the whole project to Lou, Brad and Greg (Bogantz) all of whom gave such a great deal of their time and talents (posthumously and by second or third-hand recollections in Brad's case) that every record we make if we make em is going to contain homages to all three men.

That would be awesome. Hope it comes to pass.
 
That would be awesome. Hope it comes to pass.
Main problems: All of the commercial DMM houses want nothing to do with

1. An all-analog mastering chain.

2. Incorporating any new signal-processing gear there-into.

3. Adjusting their equipment even in the digital domain to cut 33 for 45 playback.

They all say `provide us with your digital file in one of these acceptable formats (with all the digital artifacting that entails) and we'll cut at 33 or 45 for playback at native speed.'

The other specialty mastering people (e.g. 16 RPM DJ scratch loops for playback at their native 16 RPM on modified Technics 1200 turntables so you can get twice as many loops on a disc) are all having the same problem.

A) not commercially viable
B) not being a source of unlimited cash
C) mastering houses not being interested in A) and/or charging B) prices for doing so.

The rest (paying mechanical repro rights to the labels, plating and pressing the discs, marketing to audiophiles etc etc etc) is easy.

Timecode vinyl people (e.g. Serato) got so fed up with the dearth of specialty mastering houses on LACQUER that they bought and operated their own - including the pressing plant and their own special high-quality formulation of super-quiet vinyl in grainless brilliant colors.

So I wanna be cutting on copper in Copperopolis before I die if I have to swelter in this podunk town and freeze in the winter taking care of my ex foster dad disabled American veteran.

As everybody knows, the last DMM were sold to Scientology years ago - and - even though they modified all three to cut 16 for 16 playback - they only cut their own material.)

We even have a nonprofit set up to host it once it comes to pass.
Any suggestions, connections or information would be greatly appreciated.
 
I have to believe that there is someplace out there that can do this. The Jack White album "Lazaretto" is about as specialized as it comes. And he got it done. If you haven't read about that album and everything involved Google it. It's amazing.
 
"Lazaretto" is about as specialized as it comes. And he got it done.
And the 3-RPM (actually 4 1/16 RPM) record too - same thing. Already checked into it.

1. Jack White has B) above i.e. a close to unlimited source of income (Sony BMG) to pay these mastering houses the mint they are looking for in order to take a lathe out of service for a considerable period of time - perform the mods - cut the ref - send it in for approval - get it back with the tweaks required - cut the master and send it off for plating.

2. Parallel grooves e.g. like the horse race record - just have a song half normal length and space the pitch out to look like courderoy pants, reset and cut the other equally short song in the space left between.

Notice - like whatever that album is that has a 78-RPM track on it amongst all 33 cuts - you have to physically pick the stylus up and move it onto the next track.

3. As far as the tracks recorded in the label area, the only way they could get that to have any kind of decent sound was to take it over to what used to be Mattel where instead of 33 and 78 they have 105 and 133 RPM on their lathes - and test pressings exist at both speeds. See above under `deep pockets at Sony BMG'

4. As far as the 4 RPM record - that was mastered quadruple speed at 16- RPM - with a digitally compressed file i.e. pitch and time adjusted - reducing the already poor fidelity even further.

And Jack White does lacquer mastering.

We found plenty of lacquer houses that will accommodate the project and have enough extra time and extra lathes to master all manner of crazy projects and not affect their bottom line - but there's only a finite number of DMM houses - none of which are in America anymore.

An equally finite number of DMM engineers - means none of whom we've contacted so far have even the smallest interest in accommodating the project without B) above - the deep pockets of a record label - and even then it's doubtful since that still leaves `no DMM house wants to tolerate 1. an all-analog mastering chain' or 2. extraneous untested processing gear (CD-4 modulator) inserted therein' without B) above.

Oh and to add insult to injury - nobody wants to work long hours in close quarters with a Fat Guy in the mastering booth. That's like being a civilian at a comic book show or Star Trek convention.

(Yes one or two houses actually asked me my weight on the phone when I called in for service information - since I have that fairly easily distinguishable Fat Guy Speech Pattern - (Patton Oswalt does a bit on that) and then told me they weren't interested).

One more reason why I want to be able to get my own DMM lathe - get the mods and gear, be able to get a DMM engineer with the time energy and money to set it up - and then go about doing the mastering myself.

Then I figure - once I'm done with this and the thousands of sides needing remastered from the Seeburg BMS 16-RPM library (nine inch discs with a 2 inch hole) - then I can open it up to become the only DMM house in America anymore and reap my money back that way if I have to.

Or else keep catering to the noncommercial and niche market crowd whose artists, producers and engineers subscribe to values more closely aligned with my own.
 
Of course, it is a sad news, that Lou is gone. But by such a long distance of development (around 7 years) I was always afraid, that there could be circumstances, which can stop it, before finishing. That is now unfortunately true. I have had a direct contact to Lou by e-mail from 2010 to 2013. He send me 2 Grado pick ups for a retipping with shibata stylusses by a german specialist. As he has received them back, he means, they are working fanatstic. They perfomances better than a Lyra Titan. And he has asked me, if this specialist could also retipp 400 Grados. The specialist means, that he could make 50 after 50, because he as of course in the meantime other clients. Lou means in beginning 2011, that alltogether 250 Grado items would be needed, but has never send further pick ups. In april 2011 he has written me, that the main demodulator is finished, but he was not happy with the operation of the filter performance. He was in process of reprogramming the bandpass filter for improved passband phase response. He has had beneht this working also contacts to the sound and film industry. Everybody is going to be happy versy soon.
In February 2013 I have rembered him, that the time is running and he should go forward with the demodulator. In april 2013 I have written him, that I would ringing on his door, when I would stay in the USA. His answer: I would love to see you and show you the progress and if you have time my recording studio. Later I have heard, that he has built any protoypes. From the situation of now I should have done this visite or send another of our fans here.
Later I have told him, that the australien engineers (Involve) would produce the demodulator. Chuky means, they have a modern and automatic producing set. But of course they must have all the technical ketches and protypes.Ii have told Lou, that this would be a possibility to finish the demodulator andI would help with a contact to the australiens, when he would agree. Such a demodulator produced from others would be further on a DorrenDdemodulator. I have written him, he should make hurry up, be cause alsways could be circumstances, which could hinder the finihing. As excampe an earthquake in San Francisco (his area), which is really sometimes awaited - oder healthy problems. Further on I have send him till 2015 each flyer from our quadraphonic productions as a remberbering.
I think, that Lou was working on for too different places, instead concentrating for one - the Demodulator.
After the bad message I have yesterday send a message to his e-mail address, hoping, that his widow or antoher people of his circumstance will read it. I have asked, if alle the technical sketches, diagrams, protoypes would further on exist and if it would be possible also now, that the australien engineers could finsih the project. I am curious, if an answer will come. But more as I have supported and rembered him was not possible for me outside the USA.
Other considerations about new CD-4 records are for me superfluous, because the actual mediums as SA-CD or DVD-audio and highest channel separation will make possible a best and easy quadraphonic sound. But a new Demodulator could lift the 70's quadraphonic CD-4 software in some better and present quality.

Dietrich
 
Back
Top