Marshall Blonstein of Audio Fidelity at WAX Record / Music Collecting Event Oct/24-25

[0tto]

The key is how recently were the albums reissued on CD or SACD. And are copies still available on the market?
That's closer to how Audio Fidelity - and the other reissue labels - view this than an absolute rule.

what is stopping AF from turning to more recent releases (beside 50 y.o. quads) which was released on SACD/DVDA formats but since then way to long became OOP?
also i think from marketing point of view, many of them would be better sellers than obsolete and mostly forgotten acts from past.

 

[fredblue]

what is stopping AF from turning to more recent releases (beside 50 y.o. quads) which was released on SACD/DVDA formats but since then way to long became OOP?
also i think from marketing point of view, many of them would be better sellers than obsolete and mostly forgotten acts from past.

Well licensing any unreleased 5.1 from Warners has been blocked at this stage apparently, so you can discount The Cars, Chicago - X, Jean-Luc Ponty - Cosmic Messenger, etc...

 

[skherbeck]

Have you heard the original SACD of That's The Way Of The World?

Anybody wanting that now and chasing it at the usual crazy inflated out of print prices should know in advance what a piece of offensive sounding garbage it is (ditto for the MFSL SACD of Edgar Winter).

Another reason why AF should redo these two imho, they both deserve decent Hi-res stereo (at last) as much as the Quad.
If it wasn't for my OCD collecting (gotta have em all and all that palaver) I'd gladly get rid of those two MFSL SACDs, they're awful.

Another good example of an SACD mix falling far short of the original quad would be Aerosmith "Toys In The Attic" (although "Get Your Wings" is the best quad of all the Aerosmiths IMHO!)

 

[fredblue]

Another good example of an SACD mix falling far short of the original quad would be Aerosmith "Toys In The Attic" (although "Get Your Wings" is the best quad of all the Aerosmiths IMHO!)

They're not gonna go for Toys In The Attic it would seem from what's been hinted at here..
which just seems a bit odd if its available to them at this time.. its a big classic title from a huge artist and the old SACD (whatever you think of it) also now goes for megabucks - oh and it's in 5.1 and not the lovely old Quad..

ah well, I'm IMMENSELY thankful for what we've had so far and for whatever else AF choose to do, I just would hate for them to be totally risk averse to the point of factoring-in the possible availability of long out of print discs on the used market and worse still inferior sounding old product at that, I'm sure AF's new SACDs would outperform the old SACD releases in every way possible.

Keep the faith, I'm off for dinner!

 

[steelydave]

Have you heard the original SACD of That's The Way Of The World?

Anybody wanting that now and chasing it at the usual crazy inflated out of print prices should know in advance what a piece of offensive sounding garbage it is (ditto for the MFSL SACD of Edgar Winter).

Another reason why AF should redo these two imho, they both deserve decent Hi-res stereo (at last) as much as the Quad.
If it wasn't for my OCD collecting (gotta have em all and all that palaver) I'd gladly get rid of those two MFSL SACDs, they're awful.

Aside from the fact that it's already been released on stereo SACD, I think there are few other compelling reasons to release the quad mix of 'Spirit' over 'That's The Way Of The World' - one being problems with the quad mix of 'That's The Way'. Nearly everyone who's heard it seems to comment (negatively) that the quad mix of Shining Star sounds nothing like the stereo mix, and the other problem is that the song Happy People is an awful-sounding upmix with some kind of slapback echo in the rears to 'quad-ify' it. 'Spirit' has no such problems with it's mix as far as I can hear - everything is true quad from the multis, and the quad mixes have the same flavour as the stereo mixes. 'Spirit' also had 2 or 3 top-40 singles (Getaway, On Your Face, Saturday Night) and has never seen SACD release anywhere whereas the albums before (That's The Way, MFSL US) and after (All 'N' All, Sony Japan) have. To top it off, quad copies of Spirit are as rare as hen's teeth (as are most of the Columbia releases from '76-'77) - you'd be lucky if you were able to get the Q8 for less than $100.

Another good example of an SACD mix falling far short of the original quad would be Aerosmith "Toys In The Attic" (although "Get Your Wings" is the best quad of all the Aerosmiths IMHO!)

While it may not be as discrete as the quad mix, the 5.1 mix of 'Toys' is still my go-to version of the album because it's the first time (to my ears) that it's sounded like a full-fidelity recording. Every previous version of it I've heard sounded like it was coming out of an AM radio - next to Chicago's 2nd album I think it's the biggest sonic improvement achieved as the result of a 5.1 remix. There's lots of surround-ness to enjoy in it too, including rear channel cowbell in Walk This Way!

 

[0tto]

Well licensing any unreleased 5.1 from Warners has been blocked at this stage apparently

so what? there was plenty on another labels beside WB. Sony has lots of not bad surround releases, majority only in lossy DD.
why not get them out on SACDs?
Phil Collins has already mixed solo albums, for past decade dusting under his bed somewhere, because he's not confident they will do sale.
AF can negotiate with him sort of test run. i'm pretty sure those won't seat in stock too long.
Peter Gabriel seems holds his catalogue so why AF won't try to negotiate with him directly which, i guess, more straightforward
task than negotiation with label.

 

[rtbluray]

so what? there was plenty on another labels beside WB. Sony has lots of not bad surround releases, majority only in lossy DD.
why not get them out on SACDs?
Phil Collins has already mixed solo albums, for past decade dusting under his bed somewhere, because he's not confident they will do sale.
AF can negotiate with him sort of test run. i'm pretty sure those won't seat in stock too long.
Peter Gabriel seems holds his catalogue so why AF won't try to negotiate with him directly which, i guess, more straightforward
task than negotiation with label.

There's several issues with Phil Collins reissues from Audio Fidelity on SACD.
First, Audio Fidelity have already reissued several of Phil Collins' albums as Gold CDs over the last five years, so I doubt they are in any hurry to reissue those albums again, even if they are on a slightly different format.
Second, Phil and his record label would not want other reissues to compete with their own "Take A Look At Me Now…" reissue series.
Finally, I'm pretty sure Warner Music owns those unreleased 5.1 surround mixes, and as of right now, they are no longer licensing 5.1 surround mixes from their catalogue to Audio Fidelity for releasing on SACD.

As Phil Collins once sang, "That's Just The Way It Is"

 

[fredblue]

so what? there was plenty on another labels beside WB. Sony has lots of not bad surround releases, majority only in lossy DD.
why not get them out on SACDs?

Hey! I'm just repeating what was said previously in case it got missed so we stop holding out for Warner 5.1's from AF.

Who knows about the other labels (I certainly don't) but afaik nothing's been said to the contrary that Sony would not grant licenses for 5.1 to AF... in a slightly bizarre twist of fate, given all the lunacy of the past, it seems Sony are more up for licensing this Quad/5.1 stuff than anyone, they must be hard up for money, so I'm hopeful the relationship between Sony and AF will continue to be as fruitful as it has been thus far. Whatever we get is a bonus and akin to a privilege (almost) rather than a right.

Cheers! :friday:

 

[jasong]

I am very content with the quad or surround or 5.1 mixes we get of what I consider to be music from my classic rock era. The 1960's to the mid 1980's. Folk, rock, pop sould , etc , Marshall and the folks at AF have done a great job so far. They took the risk, that there was a market for these and that they could make money from them as well.

They know the in's and outs of this market, the players, the costs, the difficulties with each label or artist.

SO I LEAVE IT UP TO THEM TO KEEP DELIVERIN - I KNOW THEY WILL KEEP ME HAPPY.

THANKS MARSHALL AND EVERYBODY ELSE INVOLVED .

 

[fredblue]

Aside from the fact that it's already been released on stereo SACD, I think there are few other compelling reasons to release the quad mix of 'Spirit' over 'That's The Way Of The World' - one being problems with the quad mix of 'That's The Way'. Nearly everyone who's heard it seems to comment (negatively) that the quad mix of Shining Star sounds nothing like the stereo mix, and the other problem is that the song Happy People is an awful-sounding upmix with some kind of slapback echo in the rears to 'quad-ify' it. 'Spirit' has no such problems with it's mix as far as I can hear - everything is true quad from the multis, and the quad mixes have the same flavour as the stereo mixes. 'Spirit' also had 2 or 3 top-40 singles (Getaway, On Your Face, Saturday Night) and has never seen SACD release anywhere whereas the albums before (That's The Way, MFSL US) and after (All 'N' All, Sony Japan) have. To top it off, quad copies of Spirit are as rare as hen's teeth (as are most of the Columbia releases from '76-'77) - you'd be lucky if you were able to get the Q8 for less than $100.



While it may not be as discrete as the quad mix, the 5.1 mix of 'Toys' is still my go-to version of the album because it's the first time (to my ears) that it's sounded like a full-fidelity recording. Every previous version of it I've heard sounded like it was coming out of an AM radio - next to Chicago's 2nd album I think it's the biggest sonic improvement achieved as the result of a 5.1 remix. There's lots of surround-ness to enjoy in it too, including rear channel cowbell in Walk This Way!

I'd love an AF Surround SACD of Spirit as much if not more so than Way Of The World.. as you say, Happy Feeling isn't great in Quad (to put it mildly) and the mixes are markedly different from the stereo (and the single/hit mixes people know best of all) but I don't have a problem with it and is not reason enough not to reissue the Quad imho, it has lots of nice things going for it.

I would dearly love AF to release all the EWF Quads on Surround SACD (Head To The Sky is great too) and all the other Soul/R&B/Funk/Jazz Sony stuff (Isleys, O'Jays, MFSB, Harold Melvin, Billy Paul, Tower of Power, Labelle, The Miracles, Johnny Nash, Johnnie Taylor, BT Express, Wild Cherry, Minnie Riperton, Herbie Hancock, Miles Davis, Return To Forever, Weather Report..) if AF put them all out I'd buy the lot.. it's of course up to them if they feel they'd be a hard sell to people who aren't as mad about those genres of music as some of us are (though I draw the line at that Manhattans "Feels So Good" Quad, I just cannot get into it at all musically and I've really tried.. that can stay in the vaults..! )

 

[steelydave]

Yeah I'm totally with you, I'd like to see 'That's The Way' on AF SACD as well, I was just saying that as a sort of low-hanging fruit enterprise that Spirit may be slightly lower hanging than That's The Way. I hope all the EWF quads see the light of day via AF, they're all excellent, and as you know I'm totally with you on the other soul/funk/R&B/jazz titles you mentioned - I think the larger instrumentation of a lot of these bands (horn sections, backing vocalists etc.) really lends itself to surround mixes because there's just so many more elements to work with.

With a lot of these albums I heard the quad mix before I ever heard the stereo mix, and now when I listen to the stereo mixes on headphones when I'm out and about all I can think is 'man, all the instruments sound like they're just piled on top of each other' which I think is a real testament to how good some of the quad mixes are and the sense of space they create for the listener.

 

[quicksrt]

I'd love an AF Surround SACD of Spirit as much if not more so than Way Of The World.. as you say, Happy Feeling isn't great in Quad (to put it mildly) and the mixes are markedly different from the stereo (and the single/hit mixes people know best of all) but I don't have a problem with it and is not reason enough not to reissue the Quad imho, it has lots of nice things going for it.

I would dearly love AF to release all the EWF Quads on Surround SACD (Head To The Sky is great too) and all the other Soul/R&B/Funk/Jazz Sony stuff (Isleys, O'Jays, MFSB, Harold Melvin, Billy Paul, Tower of Power, Labelle, The Miracles, Johnny Nash, Johnnie Taylor, BT Express, Wild Cherry, Minnie Riperton, Herbie Hancock, Miles Davis, Return To Forever, Weather Report..) if AF put them all out I'd buy the lot.. it's of course up to them if they feel they'd be a hard sell to people who aren't as mad about those genres of music as some of us are (though I draw the line at that Manhattans "Feels So Good" Quad, I just cannot get into it at all musically and I've really tried.. that can stay in the vaults..! )

Which Johnny Nash was quad mixed Fred? Was it the big hit "I Can See Clearly now"?

It's a great album as well, but the song is just outstanding.

 

[quicksrt]

Interesting that "Spirit" is the better mix over "That's The Way of the World".

Is the quad mix by the later mentioned title a different team than "Spirit"?

 

[fredblue]

Yeah I'm totally with you, I'd like to see 'That's The Way' on AF SACD as well, I was just saying that as a sort of low-hanging fruit enterprise that Spirit may be slightly lower hanging than That's The Way. I hope all the EWF quads see the light of day via AF, they're all excellent, and as you know I'm totally with you on the other soul/funk/R&B/jazz titles you mentioned - I think the larger instrumentation of a lot of these bands (horn sections, backing vocalists etc.) really lends itself to surround mixes because there's just so many more elements to work with.

With a lot of these albums I heard the quad mix before I ever heard the stereo mix, and now when I listen to the stereo mixes on headphones when I'm out and about all I can think is 'man, all the instruments sound like they're just piled on top of each other' which I think is a real testament to how good some of the quad mixes are and the sense of space they create for the listener.

Mmm juicy low hanging fruit.. I like that expression :banana:

Can we have a LOVE this post option please? I had exactly the same experience as you while on the tube just this morning with Footsteps In The D., the stereo on the iPod had a more polished pristine sound but was boring by comparison and the harmonies so flat when from the brief listen I just had to the Quad the night before are full of detail and depth in that lovely 3D way surround can reinvent things from the stereo.

Ps. Dave, I miss you on the forum! Please come by and post more often

(PPS. Sorry I've not been in touch to thank you etc but I've finally got around to setting it all up and your equipment, may I say, is wonderful, so.. "thank you!" )

 

[fredblue]

Which Johnny Nash was quad mixed Fred? Was it the big hit "I Can See Clearly now"?

It's a great album as well, but the song is just outstanding.

The album was "My Merry Go Round", it's fab with a nice mix and what a voice.. :yikes

 

[steelydave]

It's the album after that, called Merry-Go-Round. It's one of a bunch of Columbia quads that are lackluster followup albums to big-selling hit albums that have no quad mix. I guess you have to assume that's why they were greenlit for quad. Wild Cherry's 'Electrified Funk' is one of these (the previous album had Play That Funky Music) and Redbone's 'Beaded Dreams Through Turqoise Eyes' is another (the previous album had the #1 single Come And Get Your Love).

I have no problem with them issuing stuff like this but I think it would be a bit frustrating for the more 'average' consumer because it's kind of like 'hey look, it's the album that doesn't have the songs you love and remember on it!'

 

[fredblue]

Interesting that "Spirit" is the better mix over "That's The Way of the World".

Is the quad mix by the later mentioned title a different team than "Spirit"?

Well I don't know if I would say better but more authentic to the stereo perhaps?

In much the same way as a lot of the "later" Sony Quads I found Spirit less of a departure from the stereo in as much as balancing/prominence of mix elements etc., whereas the earlier Quads like That's The Way are more radical and take more "liberties" with the stereo.. well I've found anyway, I've only been at this SQ quad game 6 months, I'm but a humble grumble bum who always wants "MORE!" ..

 

[fredblue]

It's the album after that, called Merry-Go-Round. It's one of a bunch of Columbia quads that are lackluster followup albums to big-selling hit albums that have no quad mix. I guess you have to assume that's why they were greenlit for quad. Wild Cherry's 'Electrified Funk' is one of these (the previous album had Play That Funky Music) and Redbone's 'Beaded Dreams Through Turqoise Eyes' is another (the previous album had the #1 single Come And Get Your Love).

I have no problem with them issuing stuff like this but I think it would be a bit frustrating for the more 'average' consumer because it's kind of like 'hey look, it's the album that doesn't have the songs you love and remember on it!'

I don't find Electrified Funk to be lacklustre in the least, it's superb from start to finish and long overdue a reappraisal! Probably my most played SQ record so far, tune after tune is so good it has my head shaking "why did this album stiff and now you can't even get it on CD or iTunes?"

Oh and even in SQ form the mix on Beaded Dreams is v.effective and it's a funky little album in its own right.. again no big hitters but it's not a shitter! (TM Fredgar. )

 

[DuncanS]

With a lot of these albums I heard the quad mix before I ever heard the stereo mix, and now when I listen to the stereo mixes on headphones when I'm out and about all I can think is 'man, all the instruments sound like they're just piled on top of each other' which I think is a real testament to how good some of the quad mixes are and the sense of space they create for the listener.

That's how I feel, there are a lot of albums where you are hit with 'A Wall Of Sound' and it can hide what is a good album (as can way too much compression), the music 'disappears', whereas in Quad or 5.1 the space allows the 'music to breathe'. The number of albums I've heard in Stereo and thought 'so-so' then listened to the 4.0 or 5.1 and thought wow. XTC albums are a good example, where I liked them, but the surround mix just takes it up a notch or two, there is so much there that gets overshadowed in stereo.

 

[zabble]

It's the album after that, called Merry-Go-Round. It's one of a bunch of Columbia quads that are lackluster followup albums to big-selling hit albums that have no quad mix. I guess you have to assume that's why they were greenlit for quad. Wild Cherry's 'Electrified Funk' is one of these (the previous album had Play That Funky Music) and Redbone's 'Beaded Dreams Through Turqoise Eyes' is another (the previous album had the #1 single Come And Get Your Love).

I have no problem with them issuing stuff like this but I think it would be a bit frustrating for the more 'average' consumer because it's kind of like 'hey look, it's the album that doesn't have the songs you love and remember on it!'

This sounds like a good thread unto itself (if one doesn't already exist). A couple other examples off the top of my head are Michael Murphy 'Swans Against the Sun' (prior album had the big hit 'Wildfire') and B.T Express 'Energy to Burn' (a previous album having the hit 'Do It (Til You're Satisfied)').