MMH - New Atmos Decoder (beta) discussion

[AYanguas]

I have just updated the latest MMH 16.3.17 installer with the latest MMH Atmos Helper Decoder with more fixes/changes (Atmos Helper 1.3 beta 8)

Please download and install MMH if you'd like to test or use:

Direct link to installer:
https://reva.blob.core.windows.net/mmh/MMHInstaller.msi

I believe this resolves all reported issues with the new Atmos Decoder. Beta users please confirm.

Decode to 9.1.4 still does NOT work completely. It does create interleaved WAV at output folder, but it is empty (0 bytes).

It does indeed create in the Temp folder the file Out-1-decoded.w64 and Out-2-decodedwithGain.w64 (when Gain > 0), and they look and listen good.

Decode to 7.1.4 and 9.1.6 work OK.

 

[HomerJAU]

Question:

Anyone interested in me adding a new output option to create Wavpack files (.wv) in the Atmos Decoder?

Wavpack seem to be supported by most players and the file size is considerably smaller than wav/w64.

In a test I just did:
WAV = 239,545KB converted to WavPack = 86,960

 

[zcftr29]

Question:

Anyone interested in me adding a new output option to create Wavpack files (.wv) in the Atmos Decoder?

Wavpack seem to be supported by most players and the file size is considerably smaller than wav/w64.

In a test I just did:
WAV = 239,545KB converted to WavPack = 86,960

I've been covering to WavPack - would be great to have this incorporated into MMH. The batch script I was writing the other day works well and does normalisation and tagging too - so far it's done about 2000 tracks without fail. Happy to send it to you if it's useful

 

[HomerJAU]

I've been covering to WavPack - would be great to have this incorporated into MMH. The batch script I was writing the other day works well and does normalisation and tagging too - so far it's done about 2000 tracks without fail. Happy to send it to you if it's useful

Yes please!

BTW: what player are your using for wv?

 

[HomerJAU]

Decode to 9.1.4 still does NOT work completely

Apologies Alberto. I missed your post earlier today. I fixed an obvious typo in the last build but didn’t run a test decode. Obviously there’s another issue.

I’ll test and fix tomorrow.

 

[zcftr29]

Yes please!

BTW: what player are your using for wv?

Hi Garry,

I use Foobar for playback with ASIO4ALL to give 5.1.4 output via 2x HDMI

Scripts are here via Dropbox: Post MMH Atmos Decode

Dependencies (Sox & ffmpeg) are in the bin folder. Just drag and drop a bunch of converted wav files onto either batch file. The 'Album' one does a first pass through all files to work out gain from max peak. The 'Misc' one will just normalise each track to -0.1dB independently.

 

[mkt]

How do I send @HomerJAU a beer?

 

[HomerJAU]

Decode to 9.1.4 still does NOT work completely.

Fixed in this build:
https://reva.blob.core.windows.net/mmh/MMHInstaller.msi

The issue was caused by ffmpeg failing when attempting to update the channel mask for a 14 channel file. The fix is to not update the channel mask, just create the 9.1.4 wav with no channel mask. Ffmpeg hasn’t been updated with ‘new’ spatial channel layouts, although it does know about all the new spatial channels.

I’m currently looking at changing ffmpeg to accept more channel layouts for spatial mixes (everything that MMH Helper can decode), so it will add those channel masks, although I’m now wondering if it’s really needed anyway. It would only effect players that use channel masks to route to speakers.

 

[AYanguas]

Fixed in this build:
https://reva.blob.core.windows.net/mmh/MMHInstaller.msi

The issue was caused by ffmpeg failing when attempting to update the channel mask for a 14 channel file. The fix is to not update the channel mask, just create the 9.1.4 wav with no channel mask. Ffmpeg hasn’t been updated with ‘new’ spatial channel layouts, although it does know about all the new spatial channels.

I’m currently looking at changing ffmpeg to accept more channel layouts for spatial mixes (everything that MMH Helper can decode), so it will add those channel masks, although I’m now wondering if it’s really needed anyway. It would only effect players that use channel masks to route to speakers.

Decode to 9.1.4 works OK for a TrueHD MKV file (From Big Phat Band)



But just to tell about a weird or curious thing that has happened with a particular file. Not relevant so far.

For checking the output channel order, I was trying to decode your Atmos test file “Atmos Channel Test 9.1.6.mkv” (02:50 duration), that it seems reduced in size from the Original M2TS from the Dolby Test Disk that I had before (16:11 duration).

… It creates the Temp files but decode window remains “Decoding MLP…” and never ends. The inspected Temp files show decoding only about the first six test Atmos channels, and they are not complete. The decoding processes have ended and the Decoding process is aborted.

The bigger original version M2TS (converted to MKV with Mkvtoolnix) is correctly decoded.

It looks as if your “reduced” file could have an strange coding at the end of some frame block (or whatever is called) that aborts the Decoding of the DRP.

With respect to the channel order of the decoded test file no surprise and it is as expected:

(L, R): Fronts, Center, LFE, Side Surrounds, Back Surrounds, Wides, Top Fronts, Top Middles, Top Rears.

 

[alansanchez86]

In other news, I saw this video the other day



No longer calling it Dolby Atmos but adjusting Spatial Audio, just like Apple. Mmm Is this something new or should I expect something different?

 

[J. PUPSTER]

In other news, I saw this video the other day



No longer calling it Dolby Atmos but adjusting Spatial Audio, just like Apple. Mmm Is this something new or should I expect something different?

I believe this is just some new form of stereo expansion treatment; @Sonik Wiz reported on this-

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...s-and-their-content.29166/page-26#post-674304

 

[jrobbins50]

Music Media Helper 6.3.13 Released:

Version 6.3.13 (January 18 2023)
-------------
New:
Atmos Helper: Added Atmos Decoding (beta version) to MCH WAV option - Only if user has a Dolby Reference Player (DRP) installed



About the Atmos Decoder tool beta:
This tool not formally documented yet. I'll do that ASAP. This is an experimental beta release.

The new Atmos Helper Atmos Decoding tool is a beta and is currently undocumented. It only appears as an option on the MMH Atmos Helper main dialog if a user has the Dolby Reference Player (DRP) installed on same PC as MMH.

View attachment 87526

This uses the DRP to decode a file with an Atmos stream contained in any of supported files to either multiple mono wavs or a single multichannel interleaved wav. Users can add multiple files from a single folder (it will batch decode):

Supported Input Files (With Atmos - TrueHD or Dolby Digital Plus JOC):
MLP
EAC3
MKV
MKA
MP4
M4A

For each of the above the tool extracts mlp or eac3 then decodes to the selected output wav type (Interleaved MCH or mono).

This tool will probably fail where a user has split any mkv into chapter files as the DRP is not compatible with splitting MLP streams. In this case users should decode from the original MKV rip containing all the chapters (songs).

For MKV and MKA files containing chapters the tool first Decodes the entire MKV/MKA file (takes quite a while). Then it splits the huge wav (.w64 file) into chapter files. Be patient.

The Atmos Decoder supports the following WAV output (Channel Layouts):
Stereo
5.1
7.1
5.1.4
7.1.4
9.1.6

The DRP remixes the Atmos stream to selected output channel layout, just like an Atmos AVR remixes to the user's AVR speaker layout. Nothing is lost.

The decoder creates a relatively quiet pcm wav. There is a user option to apply a volume gain to all channels. Please experiment. Of course, MMH's Channel Volume tool can also be used to apply channel gains to specific channels (i.e. boost rears or tops only)

Interleaved MCH wav files have correct channel mask (channel IDs) for wav players that support this and are compatible with the Atmos Helper‘s Atmos Encoder tool (allowing, for example, channel volume edits and re-encode to back to Atmos). Mono files are named in Dolby channel order and with channel name suffix.

Please post questions/feedback here.

THX

Hi Garry. I use Atmos 5.1.2 so of course, I got an error message when I manually inputted 5.1.2 as the channel layout. Would it be possible to update your Atmos Decoder to include the 5.1.2 format? Also, I save and playback in FLAC format through Roon, so having the choice of FLAC over WAV would be nice as well. Thanks. JCR

 

[HomerJAU]

@jrobbins50 Are you using latest version of MMH (6.4.3)? If not please update.

THX

 

[jrobbins50]

@jrobbins50 Are you using latest version of MMH (6.4.3)? If not please update.

THX

Hi Garry. Yes, I'm using 6.4.3 and the screenshot in my post above shows the error message. What else can I provide for you? Thanks. JCR

Edit: Hold that thought. I have your software on two different PCs and was running the Dolby Atmos decoding on my big server, where I have NOT updated to 6.4.3. So, give me a moment to update and try!

Edit 2: 5.1.2 is indeed in the dropdown now that I correctly am using 6.4.3. It's been running about 10 minutes now and not throwing any errors, but still on 0%. How long is the process supposed to take to start moving the needle, so to speak?

Edit 3: CPU usage was running high but now MMHAtmosHelper is only using about 3% of CPU. Is that normal? (i9-10900K processor)

Edit 4: Well, although the counter never went past 0%, the output files are done. Seems that it has worked, Garry!

 

[mkt]

Hi Garry. I use Atmos 5.1.2 so of course, I got an error message when I manually inputted 5.1.2 as the channel layout. Would it be possible to update your Atmos Decoder to include the 5.1.2 format? Also, I save and playback in FLAC format through Roon, so having the choice of FLAC over WAV would be nice as well. Thanks. JCR

@jrobbins50 I am also playing 5.1.2 in Roon. I set the channel layout to 7.1 in Roon and turn on the "swap rear and surround" option so that 5.1 content plays correctly. Then after I use MMH Atmos Decoder to decode 5.1.2, I swap the order of the surrounds and heights using MMH. That is a little convoluted but seems to work. I'd be happy with a FLAC output option too. Thanks

 

[gorman]

Bit of a silly question and I wish to stress it's asked with the utmost respect for the work done and for the fact that, clearly, for some people this is a great tool and discovery but...

I'm not sure I get the scenario in which this makes particular sense for people with an AVR capable of decoding TrueHD with Atmos. Am I missing something?
I see the author of the article that's been linked stating that this opens Atmos "for the masses" but the hardware requirements seem completely overboard to achieve what you want to achieve. Not disputing it's possible, it obviously is. But why should this approach be preferable for the masses, I don't get it.

 

[himey]

I'm not sure I get the scenario in which this makes particular sense for people with an AVR capable of decoding TrueHD with Atmos

Some people don't have an Atmos receiver. Why is that difficult to understand?

 

[AudiophileStyle]

Bit of a silly question and I wish to stress it's asked with the utmost respect for the work done and for the fact that, clearly, for some people this is a great tool and discovery but...

I'm not sure I get the scenario in which this makes particular sense for people with an AVR capable of decoding TrueHD with Atmos. Am I missing something?
I see the author of the article that's been linked stating that this opens Atmos "for the masses" but the hardware requirements seem completely overboard to achieve what you want to achieve. Not disputing it's possible, it obviously is. But why should this approach be preferable for the masses, I don't get it.

I don’t use a receiver. This way I can use 65,000 tap convolution filters and much better DACs.

 

[himey]

I don’t use a receiver.

I should have added "or want" a receiver, to my post above.

 

[gorman]

I should have added "or want" a receiver, to my post above.

Yeah, which is why I object to "for the masses" in the article. ;-)

Also because standard equipment is basically uncapable of handling those files?