My new Surround Master V3

[Steve Bruzonsky]

Not trying to burst anyone's bubble, but claims that are unsupported can cost the gullible money that should be spent on media.

And opinions that are unsupported are a waste of energy! HA!

Audio components are manufactured at certain price points. The Surround Master v3 is a great product at a fantastically low price for what it does. Cleaner power for some audio systems and some ears/brains may make a difference, as in my case.

 

[chucky3042]

Hi Steve

Really not trying to belittle you in anyway, just pointing out that in my opinion the use of the linear power supply probably will not improve things and least of all he bass. Having said that I respect your opinion and have suggested others to give it a try and see if they can do an instant A/ B- preferably with someone who really does not care (say your wife) doing the swap and not telling you whats A or B. In addition doing this say 10 times with random A and B.....see if you can pick it. If you can pick it on this blind test , then I really will take notice and do something.

Pretty well every bit of circuitry we do/ change is evaluated on this basis as we also have done on comparisons against discrete systems and other matrix systems. For example we could have just shot for really high channel separation numbers but it sounded worse that the current numbers. All done on A/ B testing.

Remember years ago it was all the rage to paint a green coating on the outside of CD's, people were swearing that the difference was obvious. I tested it with 2 identical CD players time synched and it was ZERO difference. Same can be said on things like "audiophile capacitors, speaker cable , 16 bit vs 21 bit etc. I remember years ago "Wireless World " did a big comparison on speaker cable ranging from cheapo to crazy expensive- the winner was lawnmower cable at around 2 pound per meter!!!

After you either spend a lot of time on some audio modification or spend big$$$$ on some stellar equipment it is difficult to mentally tag it as a flop, that's why I insist on careful instant A/B if possible. The biggest differences in audio by a mile is speakers and how the speakers couple to the room and its not about frequency response, distortion, IMD or even impulse decay response as all the reviewers focus on.

Another good example (and now you will all hate me) is in the medical area where people are convinced the treatment works

eg
Acupuncture, YES IT DOES WORK... up to 60% success rate but a recent well conducted sham trial showed that the results were the same weather the needles were put in the acupuncture points or just randomly placed anywhere.......conclusion its the white coat placebo effect.

Glucosamine for joint pain. Trials show no effect but yet people swear by the stuff, its a best seller! Note it looks like it slightly reduces height loss by around 8mm with age.

Panadol. Its the worlds number 1 selling pain killer, we all swear that it works. Guess what, the latest trials show that its just marginally better than the placebo. OK it can help you sleep and reduce your fever.

Fish Oil. Nup does not reduce cardiac arrhythmias as people have claimed. Nup, trials have shown it in fact makes arrhythmias worse!!

I really do not want to recommend to you guys any thing that I have not trialed but yes it you like it, go with it as it certainly will not do any harm. What does upset me are many of the "professional" reviewers who wax lyrical about the obvious massive differences between say DVD players where in fact blind A/ B trials show it was impossible. They make a career in selling ******** as do many of the "audiophile " shops.

Hey Par4ken
Re the circuitry of the evaluation module. Yes you are quite correct it does differ from the SM 3 as it was an earlier revision. Here it is:

The SM 2 is more like the evaluation module. The main advantage in the revised circuitry is a slightly higher - 12 V power supply rail.

Its it better than the SM2 - YES
What has Chucky got at home - the SM2 I don't lose any sleep over it but if you need optical in then get it

Speaking of snake oil and Hifi ********, there is a lot of it in amplifiers as largely that is not what stuffs up the sound but having said that our new 120 W per channel 6 channel amp master really does offer a great difference - the soft clipping really makes it like a massive valve amplifier. I would not have developed the product if it was just another "me to".

I can assure all you guys and any customer that we always offer real advice that often can be against our sales.

 

[Steve Bruzonsky]

Chucky, no offense taken. Like I said, I absolutely love the Surround Master v3 and its a fantastic product for a fantastic price!

 

[chucky3042]

Chucky, no offense taken. Like I said, I absolutely love the Surround Master v3 and its a fantastic product for a fantastic price!

Yay Steve!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[barfle]

And opinions that are unsupported are a waste of energy! HA!

Audio components are manufactured at certain price points. The Surround Master v3 is a great product at a fantastically low price for what it does. Cleaner power for some audio systems and some ears/brains may make a difference, as in my case.

Having engineered more than a handful of products, I can safely state that no reputable manufacturer would release a product with an inadequate power supply.

With all the accolades that Chucky has received for the surround masters in all their revisions, I have high confidence that his selection of power supply was not made without adequate testing and evaluation, in addition to having a scientifically supported specification.

Wasting your money is, indeed, your choice. Spend all you want on overpriced cables, extra useless bits of data, and speakers that are flat to a gigaHertz if you feel it improves your life. Chucky has, I’m sure, tested multiple supplies (including lab supplies during development), and I can’t imagine that he’s not fully aware of any sonic differences power supplies can make to the output signal, and that the supply that comes with the unit is fully adequate to the task at hand.

Perhaps wall wart supplies are unacceptable for personal reasons. I get that - they take up too much room on outlet strips, at least. But, as an engineer, I know that a 100 Amp supply connected to a 1 Amp load won’t help anything except a manufacturer’s bottom line, and, as I noted earlier, that money is better spent on media!

 

[barfle]

Let people make that decision on their own. Upgrading and audiophile tweaks are seldom a bad thing and can only help, at worst they do nothing but still they offer the user a peace of mind\sense of well being that is priceless!

If you’re advocating that I ignore and support ignorance, you haven’t read very much of what I write here.

To be sure, I don’t care what other people spend. I definitely believe in liberty, but I also feel that informed consent is important, and what I saw earlier was something that didn’t fit the “informed” part of that description. In fact, I don’t believe the claim. Not that he’s lying, but that he’s experiencing a desire to hear a difference, so he believes he does.

I also engage in a fair amount of overkill in my system. I know that the sonic benefits of using S-video cable for audio connections won’t be audible, but it avoids any concerns for losses in those cables. So I don’t tell anyone that I can hear the difference, because I simply know better.

 

[par4ken]

Not that he’s lying, but that he’s experiencing a desire to hear a difference, so he believes he does.

Exactly, let him have and express his own opinion. You want to ridicule him! Chucky already apologised!

 

[barfle]

Exactly, let him have and express his own opinion. You want to ridicule him! Chucky already apologised!

I never ridiculed anyone here.

 

[Steve Bruzonsky]

My family room multi-channel DAC is Exasound s88. It has 2 switching power supplies, one for DAC and one for the rest. Exasound has won awards and is well respected in the high end audio industry. Exasound directly sells a Teddy Pardo linear power supply which it recommends to use if you want instead of the built-in DAC switching power supply, saying you may find some sonic improvement depending on your system and ears. Exasound does not recommend a linear power supply for the other switching power supply. Several folks including me over at Audiophile Style Forum, including Stereophile's Kal Robinson, are using the Teddy Pardo for the DAC. Kal and one other tried a linear power supply in lieu of the other switching power supply and found no sonic improvement.

 

[MidiMagic]

Having engineered more than a handful of products, I can safely state that no reputable manufacturer would release a product with an inadequate power supply.

With all the accolades that Chucky has received for the surround masters in all their revisions, I have high confidence that his selection of power supply was not made without adequate testing and evaluation, in addition to having a scientifically supported specification.

Wasting your money is, indeed, your choice. Spend all you want on overpriced cables, extra useless bits of data, and speakers that are flat to a gigaHertz if you feel it improves your life. Chucky has, I’m sure, tested multiple supplies (including lab supplies during development), and I can’t imagine that he’s not fully aware of any sonic differences power supplies can make to the output signal, and that the supply that comes with the unit is fully adequate to the task at hand.

Perhaps wall wart supplies are unacceptable for personal reasons. I get that - they take up too much room on outlet strips, at least. But, as an engineer, I know that a 100 Amp supply connected to a 1 Amp load won’t help anything except a manufacturer’s bottom line, and, as I noted earlier, that money is better spent on media!

I remember in the 1950s, a major radio manufacturer pulled a major boner. Their power supply (for tubes) was 600 volts, but the I-F section was bypassed with capacitors with a 350 volt breakdown voltage. The capacitors worked at 600 volts, but failed early.

 

[barfle]

I remember in the 1950s, a major radio manufacturer pulled a major boner. Their power supply (for tubes) was 600 volts, but the I-F section was bypassed with capacitors with a 350 volt breakdown voltage. The capacitors worked at 600 volts, but failed early.

It wouldn’t surprise me if the purchasing department found a deal on the caps. But I wasn’t working in the 50s, so maybe it’s projecting my 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s, and 10s experience.

 

[ar surround]

I'm laughing at the power supply comments. It's not because I have an opinion one way or another regarding them. However, having developed power plants and power infrastructure projects in various countries around the world has given me insight into truly serious power supply issues. For example:

AR: "Derek, you need to change out those flashing fluorescent fixtures in your office. They're defective."
Derek: "It's not the fixtures. That's just the way the power is in this country."

AR: "Rob, is that fixture over your head on fire?"
Rob: "Hey, uh, you all got a fire over here....Well, OK, it seems to have burned itself out."

Power Plant Operator: "Yes, we hadn't experienced anything like that, so we kind of panicked."
AR: "And managed to black out half of the country in the process."

So we should count our blessings...and have good power protection / conditioning between the wall outlet and our equipment!

 

[armyjazzer]

I know that the sonic benefits of using S-video cable for audio connections won’t be audible, but it avoids any concerns for losses in those cables.

I am confused with this. S-Video cables carry video, not audio, correct?

 

[par4ken]

I am confused with this. S-Video cables carry video, not audio, correct?

He might be referring to component or composite video cables. I found that some component video cables that I purchased had low enough capacitance for CD-4. The very cheap ones however are garbage, barely passing audio (IMHO)! S-video cables contain multiple conductors and are equipped with an S-video connector and could not be used for audio (without modification).

For awhile you could get component video cables at very low prices as people were moving over to HDMI. Run two such component video cables and you're good for analog 5.1 audio! The supply seems to be drying up I don't see the same deals these days!

 

[barfle]

I am confused with this. S-Video cables carry video, not audio, correct?

They are actually just wires, albeit shielded and, no doubt, capable of carrying higher frequencies than necessary. Also, they’re convenient, having two cables in one jacket. They work well.

It’s also worth noting that I started my career as a fabrication tech at Hughes Aircraft. They taught me how to solder well, so although some guys are trepidatious about that DIY activity, it’s part of my being. I still love doing it.

 

[barfle]

He might be referring to component or composite video cables. I found that some component video cables that I purchased had low enough capacitance for CD-4. The very cheap ones however are garbage, barely passing audio (IMHO)! S-video cables contain multiple conductors and are equipped with an S-video connector and could not be used for audio (without modification).

For awhile you could get component video cables at very low prices as people were moving over to HDMI. Run two such component video cables and you're good for analog 5.1 audio! The supply seems to be drying up I don't see the same deals these days!

No, I mean S-video cabling, which has two shielded conductors. Composite has one, component has three. The cabling I bought came on a reel and was specifically labeled S-video cable, but had no connectors. I cut it to length and soldered either RCA or XLR (for the handful of balanced connections in my system) to the ends.

 

[MidiMagic]

This tells what S-video is:

Composite Video vs S-video - Difference and Comparison | Diffen

Other than the S-video sockets appearing on a lot of the audio-video switchers I have, I never used them.

 

[barfle]

This tells what S-video is:

Composite Video vs S-video - Difference and Comparison | Diffen

Other than the S-video sockets appearing on a lot of the audio-video switchers I have, I never used them.

While this may be interesting to several readers here, I don't actually own any S-video devices, although at one time I did have a very nice Mitsubishi S-VHS deck, which died and parts weren't available anywhere near Washington, DC. I have seen S-video devices in systems, but only rarely. It never really caught on.

S-video separates the luminance (black-and-white) signal from the chrominance signal (3.58MHz modulated color carrier). Actually, if you're doing it right, you never combine the two, keeping them separate through the entire signal chain. Displays separate the signals with filters (several different technologies over the years), but filters are imperfect, so if you never combine the signals, you never have to worry about artifacts when you filter them apart. There are two signals with frequencies approaching 10MHz on separate shielded wires in S-video cable. The little 4-pin connector is probably less robust than RCA or certainly BNC connectors, so some people may well feel that it's cheap, but it worked well, but not enough better than NTSC/PAL (Composite video) that most people cared.

The link pretty much agrees with me, although the comment following it is BS.

The reason I use the cable is admittedly overkill, but the bandwidth is never going to be an issue for me.

 

[Steve Bruzonsky]

Back in the 90's and early 2000's, prior to the advent of D-VHS, then HD-DVD, and finally Blu Ray, I owned several S-VHS decks, S-VHS tape, recorded on S-VHS decks, would record the full resolution of laserdisc, like 400 lines interlaced, with better color than VHS as well. S-video connectors were the absolute worst video connectors ever designed and made, even worse than HDMI! S-video cable connectors broke easily and were a pain in the butt. At the time, Monster Cable made the then very best S-video cables. I had a S-VHS camcorder as well as laserdisc player and I would at times rent laserdiscs and record them to S-VHS tape.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-Video

 

[Tribby2001]

Pardon my adolescent naiveté but, what the hell does a SM(v3) do in a nutshell?
Can I play my Led Zep CDs and mad-jack-ally get quadraphonic ejaculation?


Er, uhm, how does it do it, baby?