New 2023 onward AVRs with HDMI 2.1 - Media Player users beware!

[MidiMagic]

Another case where business put intellectual property and greed over compatibility.

There is a special place in hades for people who do this. Everything they try to do is incompatible.

 

[ar surround]

Another case where business put intellectual property and greed over compatibility.

There is a special place in hades for people who do this. Everything they try to do is incompatible.

I'm laughing at your comment because Paramount+ (with Showtime) sold the rights to Homeland and just pulled it from their streaming service without any warning. My wife and I were in the middle of season 4 of 9 when they pulled it. So I wrote on the QQ Streaming and Content thread that, "All of these streaming companies and the people who operate them can go to hell."

Talk about greed. But we QQ people are a nasty lot and have ways to get even.
[Edit: I forgot to mention that there are 37 copies of that series and season in our public library system. Ha ha.]

 

[letting1]

I'm planning to update my system to include a Kodi media player on a NUC and a new Marantz Cinema 70S using its pre-out capabilities. There's a NUC8BEK Mini PC i3-8109U/8GB RAM/120GB SSD/ WIN10 on eBay that I have my eye on. Given the discussion above and the need to update the NUC8's HDMI to allow HD audio pass through, should I go for this NUC8 or should I look for a newer version. Also, if I do go for this NUC8, is the BEK version compatible with the setup recommended by @HomerJAU?

 

[HomerJAU]

An Intel NUC 8 BEK or BEH is fine for Kodi. It’s just needs the HDMI firmware updated for latest AVRs with HDMI 2.1. This will do all audio formats you need for music you see here on QQ and video up 4K with HDR (no Dolby Vision).

I still have 3 x Intel 8 i3 NUCs here (one I recently loaned to a friend). I use LibreElec (Linux with Kodi included) not Windows. Someone here in AU was selling 45 of them (second hand memory and SSD but no Win) for under $200 ea.

EDIT: I would recommend LibreElec over Windows as it boots much faster and is not constantly running windows services in the background and installing windows updates etc. If all you plan to do is use the NUC as Player then I can provide you with a smallish backup file to install LE and have it mostly configured ready to go.

If you don’t have the HDMI firmware update let me know.

I also have an Intel NUC11 Pro TNK and a NUC12 Pro WSH but there is no difference in performance playing music or video but both have 2.5GBE Ethernet vs 1GBE on NUC 8 models but you need a 2.5GBE network to see the speed increase for file transfer. NUC 12 and NUC 13 have a video sync bug so don’t go there yet (only at 24Hz which is not that common), although there is a workaround (code hack).

 

[steelydave]

If you're really set on a NUC because you want to use it for things beyond Kodi, then @HomerJAU 's dual-boot suggestion is excellent. If you just/only want a device for Kodi, consider getting an Android box and installing CoreElec on it. Personally I have a UGoos AM6b+ (for which I professed my undying love in a thread here) that's made my 7th gen NUC all but obsolete for media playback - the interface is quicker and more responsive and video playback is smoother and better looking (and it supports Dolby Vision which no PC does), not to mention a box like this is about 1/4 the price of a brand new NUC + RAM + SSD/HDD etc. I wish this thing existed 5 years ago because it would've saved me a lot of fiddling with Windows firmware and driver updates and configuration.

 

[letting1]

An Intel NUC 8 BEK or BEH is fine for Kodi. It’s just needs the HDMI firmware updated for latest AVRs with HDMI 2.1. This will do all audio formats you need for music you see here on QQ and video up 4K with HDR (no Dolby Vision).

I still have 3 x Intel 8 i3 NUCs here (one I recently loaned to a friend). I use LibreElec (Linux with Kodi included) not Windows. Someone here in AU was selling 45 of them (second hand memory and SSD but no Win) for under $200 ea.

EDIT: I would recommend LibreElec over Windows as it boots much faster and is not constantly running windows services in the background and installing windows updates etc. If all you plan to do is use the NUC as Player then I can provide you with a smallish backup file to install LE and have it mostly configured ready to go.

If you don’t have the HDMI firmware update let me know.

I also have an Intel NUC11 Pro TNK and a NUC12 Pro WSH but there is no difference in performance playing music or video but both have 2.5GBE Ethernet vs 1GBE on NUC 8 models but you need a 2.5GBE network to see the speed increase for file transfer. NUC 12 and NUC 13 have a video sync bug so don’t go there yet (only at 24Hz which is not that common), although there is a workaround (code hack).

I do intend to run LibreElec on the NUC8. It's just that this particular open box NUC has Win 10 on it already. Thanks for your help!

 

[letting1]

If you're really set on a NUC because you want to use it for things beyond Kodi, then @HomerJAU 's dual-boot suggestion is excellent. If you just/only want a device for Kodi, consider getting an Android box and installing CoreElec on it. Personally I have a UGoos AM6b+ (for which I professed my undying love in a thread here) that's made my 7th gen NUC all but obsolete for media playback - the interface is quicker and more responsive and video playback is smoother and better looking (and it supports Dolby Vision which no PC does), not to mention a box like this is about 1/4 the price of a brand new NUC + RAM + SSD/HDD etc. I wish this thing existed 5 years ago because it would've saved me a lot of fiddling with Windows firmware and driver updates and configuration.

Thanks, @steelydave. I've not heard of this box, but I will definitely take a look at it and your thread.

 

[letting1]

An Intel NUC 8 BEK or BEH is fine for Kodi. It’s just needs the HDMI firmware updated for latest AVRs with HDMI 2.1. This will do all audio formats you need for music you see here on QQ and video up 4K with HDR (no Dolby Vision).

I still have 3 x Intel 8 i3 NUCs here (one I recently loaned to a friend). I use LibreElec (Linux with Kodi included) not Windows. Someone here in AU was selling 45 of them (second hand memory and SSD but no Win) for under $200 ea.

EDIT: I would recommend LibreElec over Windows as it boots much faster and is not constantly running windows services in the background and installing windows updates etc. If all you plan to do is use the NUC as Player then I can provide you with a smallish backup file to install LE and have it mostly configured ready to go.

If you don’t have the HDMI firmware update let me know.

I also have an Intel NUC11 Pro TNK and a NUC12 Pro WSH but there is no difference in performance playing music or video but both have 2.5GBE Ethernet vs 1GBE on NUC 8 models but you need a 2.5GBE network to see the speed increase for file transfer. NUC 12 and NUC 13 have a video sync bug so don’t go there yet (only at 24Hz which is not that common), although there is a workaround (code hack).

I now have the NUC8 discussed above. The BIOS Version/Date on it is BECFL357.86A.0085.2020.1007.1917, 10/7/2020. I believe there are later versions available. Should I update it?

Also, I have the HDMI FW update v1.78.4.0.4 for the NUC8 supplied above by @rjpinca. Using the "Get FW Version" button in the Bobcat AUX-ISP Tool v2.1h , I see "Current on-board F/W Version: Bobcat.App: MC2800 v1.73 (cut 2.2)" and " CMDB: Ver: 0.3 (Custom Ver: 1.0)". If I interpret that correctly, I should do the update from 1.73 to 1.78, right? Or is there a more current version?

Since I am planning to install LE on this NUC, I would very much appreciate your "smallish backup file to install LE". I'm assuming I can configure the NUC to do dual boot and keep Win 10 on the SSD. Does that sound right? Edit: I decided not to do the dual boot idea after looking at all the stuff on the Forum. Not worth the trouble.

I've been using KODI for Windows 10 on my laptop for the past couple of years with media stored on an OMV NAS but I have noticed KODI is quite slow to boot, so I'm looking forward to LE.

Thanks again for your great support.

 

[M-K]

Is there anything known regarding a Raspberry Pi 4 like this issue?

 

[HomerJAU]

I now have the NUC8 discussed above. The BIOS Version/Date on it is BECFL357.86A.0085.2020.1007.1917, 10/7/2020. I believe there are later versions available. Should I update it?

Also, I have the HDMI FW update v1.78.4.0.4 for the NUC8 supplied above by @rjpinca. Using the "Get FW Version" button in the Bobcat AUX-ISP Tool v2.1h , I see "Current on-board F/W Version: Bobcat.App: MC2800 v1.73 (cut 2.2)" and " CMDB: Ver: 0.3 (Custom Ver: 1.0)". If I interpret that correctly, I should do the update from 1.73 to 1.78, right? Or is there a more current version?

Since I am planning to install LE on this NUC, I would very much appreciate your "smallish backup file to install LE". I'm assuming I can configure the NUC to do dual boot and keep Win 10 on the SSD. Does that sound right?

I've been using KODI for Windows 10 on my laptop for the past couple of years with media stored on an OMV NAS but I have noticed KODI is quite slow to boot, so I'm looking forward to LE.

Thanks again for your great support.

You must update the HDMI firmware. The one @rjpinca posted is the latest (I think)

The NUC firmware is probably ok but I use a later version 95.

LE does not officially support dual boot. You can do it (do a Google search). My NUCs are dedicated Kodi media players. I’ve only ever tried Windows once for Kodi. What a pain.

I will prepare a backup file over next day or two. This will be with my Aeon Nox Silvo QQ Logo skin modification. You just need to change your library paths and path to Artist Information folders to your NAS.

Edit: In the mean time go you can go ahead and install LE 12 (Kodi 21.1) and workout dual boot etc.

 

[FooBarFoo]

You must update the HDMI firmware. The one @rjpinca posted is the latest (I think)

The NUC firmware is probably ok but I use a later version 95.

LE does not officially support dual boot. You can do it (do a Google search). My NUCs are dedicated Kodi media players. I’ve only ever tried Windows once for Kodi. What a pain.

I will prepare a backup file over next day or two. This will be with my Aeon Nox Silvo QQ Logo skin modification. You just need to change your library paths and path to Artist Information folders to your NAS.

Edit: In the mean time go you can go ahead and install LE 12 (Kodi 21.1) and workout dual

I just bought a new Denon AVR-X4800H (HDMI 2.1) AVR and my two Intel NUC8’s with HDMI 2.0a will not play TrueHD (inc Atmos TrueHD) or DTS-HDMA via pass-through using Kodi.

Another QQ member here with a new Marantz 2023 AVR (with HDMI 2.1) has same issue.

I resolved my issue by using an Intel NUC12 (with HDMI 2.1) using Kodi. The Marantz user bought a new mini PC to solve his issue.

So just a heads up, it’s possible other media players devices without HDMI 2.1 may same similar ‘No HD audio via pass-through’ issues. Buyer Beware.

My test Fire Stick 4K Max (with HDMI 2.1) has no issues on the X4800H.

EDIT: Issues solved by updating my Intel NUC8 HDMI firmware to latest version (Feb 2 2024)

Not the same issue, but if you are having playback issues with older gear handshaking with newer Denon or Marantz receivers, you may also be able to adjust hdmi compatibility in the Denon/Marantz HDMI diagnostics menu.

Just figured I'd call that out as well in this thread.

https://www.accessories4less.com/mas_assets/media/manuals/Denon/denonhdmi.pdf

 

[letting1]

Good to know. I'm in the process of setting up a new Marantz AVR and it's not as simple as I thought it would be. I'd venture to say that a consumer standard like HDMI should be a little more user friendly.

 

[mandrix]

HDMI handshake issues are indeed a royal PITA.
My (then new) AVR's HDMI board went out after a few months. I did eventually get a new replacement AVR.

I have a 10th generation Asus motherboard with an 11th generation cpu, and sometimes it just won't handshake with the AVR until I go into the BIOS and set optimized defaults, reboot, then reload my saved settings. Whereas my Nvidia GTX 3060 card seldom has this problem. But it does sometimes.

Then there's been the on and off again problem with HDMI boards on various AVR's over the years from crappy chips, overheating boards and bad decoder chips.

I assume most AVR's these days have more in depth settings that can affect the display device. DSC/VRR/HDR/etc etc can usually all be turned off, then turned back on one at a time to chase down handshake issues with TV's/monitors. Usually these settings are easier to find in the AVR's web interface.

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

Hi @mandrix,

Are most of your HDMI issues 'computer to AVR' related or are you having issues with 'hardware players to your AVR' to?

 

[mandrix]

Hi @mandrix,

Are most of your HDMI issues 'computer to AVR' related or are you having issues with 'hardware players to your AVR' to?

SMD, no problems with the 4 disc players. Mainly the motherboard HDMI on one of the pc's.
I do have some slow handshake issues from AVR > monitor. I think the monitor is to blame in this case as the TV links right up.

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

I remember having HDMI issues when I last connected my PC to my Onkyo AVR but that was many years ago when I still had an AVR. The HDMI connection worked fine when the PC was directly connected to my TV, it could even pass lossy Dolby Digital and DTS audio via ARC to my AVR.

Computers are weird things!

 

[mandrix]

I've seen all sorts of fixes for malfunctioning HDMI boards on AVR's over the years, YouTube videos, etc.
I have watched some of them reflow the solder on BGA decoder chips on older Onkyo boards, allegedly because the chips are scarce, and why not? lol.

I had an HDMI board replaced under warranty years ago for a TX-NR606. When I got the unit back, I asked for someone to spec me some higher heat caps for the board (someone on QQ came through but name escapes me). I had noticed the board got pretty warm during long periods of use, verified with an IR gun.
It was sort of a leap, but I did it anyway and replaced the caps. Used it a few months and gave it to my Daughter, where as far as I know it's still going for years now. Luck? Did the replacement caps help? I don't truly know.

As for the problem with HDMI on my motherboard, Asus states the problem as occurring with the 10th gen Intel boards running an 11th gen cpu (as mine is). That's too far above my pay grade to fathom why exactly, but apparently it is so. Sort of a PITA to have to reboot the machine, set BIOS defaults, reboot, then restore previous settings.
Why bother if I have a perfectly fine 3060 GPU? Reason is sometimes the Nvidia drivers allow "skipping" during playback of musical content so I'd rather use the mobo HDMI for music.

 

[jimfisheye]

I know there's more to learn re: HDMI versions and chipsets...

I think the rule of thumb might be:
Pre thunderbolt computer? Just forget it! Try any HDMI pci card or graphics card you want - oldest one to brand new - but you will still have dropout laden audio. If it even connects.

Post thunderbolt (circa 2011)?
Just works!
And if you have a computer with the HDMI port with audio disabled the thunderbolt port will work. (TB to HDMI cable.)

Even better rule of thumb:
Avoid HDMI!

 

[mandrix]