New Surround Master coming! Its a jump to the left and a step to the right

[DuncanS]

I'm glad you know your HHGTTG!

Got the towel & the peanuts!

 

[chucky3042]

"Brain the size of a planet"....I am depressed

 

[karlkastner]

Yeah all us surround nut cases here at Involve want it!

Could the preamp have a variant without the rack mounts? The V2 SM case looks great as a component. Something like that would be nice for the preamp.

 

[chucky3042]

Could the preamp have a variant without the rack mounts? The V2 SM case looks great as a component. Something like that would be nice for the preamp.

Could be - we are still discussing it

 

[Soundfield]

Could be - we are still discussing it

Fairly easy to provide both options in one though - I've several bits of kit where the rack mount 'ears' can be simply unscrewed if you don't want them.

 

[DuncanS]

"Brain the size of a planet"....I am depressed

Its those Diodes again, try some 1N4148s!

 

[chucky3042]

Its those Diodes again, try some 1N4148s!

I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left side !

 

[Sonik Wiz]

Of course another question: Can you tell me if the design of the Surround Master utilizes any HRTF or delay techniques?

 

[chucky3042]

Of course another question: Can you tell me if the design of the Surround Master utilizes any HRTF or delay techniques?

NUP, no tricks, smoke and mirrors just lots of maths and psychoacoustic factors. The Two speaker surround mode does use HRTF, but not for 4 ch or 5 ch

 

[Wunlow]

Possibly....we are looking at it!

A variable rear mix control would be a great option to have. Doing so externally is of course possible and mechanically can be done simply, but.. something like that is not easily found in consumer gear and would almost require a dedicated mixer just to be able to do the variable blend. Sometimes max front to back separation is desired, and if a simple knob could easily offer it, that's a major win.

The two items I am excited to hear about:

* Larger metal case, and running cooler: I have no doubt the first Surround Master poses no fire hazard at all and was never concerned, but just having any prized component running cooler is always a good thing, typically ensuring a longer life span.

* (Okay center channel haters ..turn away for this part) Having dedicated QS and SQ 5.1 output modes. ....Yesss!! While the first SM offered a center channel almost 100% compatible with an SQ center, it did NOT offer an option for SQ left and right front channels with the center channel removed. So 5.1 SQ in the first one really was a no-go. But now that's changed. And SQ is "almost" a shoe in for the Dolby Stereo matrix. More so than QS. And there's a lot of Dolby Surround encoded music and older film mixes that do not survive in discrete 4 channel.

 

[chucky3042]

A variable rear mix control would be a great option to have. Doing so externally is of course possible and mechanically can be done simply, but.. something like that is not easily found in consumer gear and would almost require a dedicated mixer just to be able to do the variable blend. Sometimes max front to back separation is desired, and if a simple knob could easily offer it, that's a major win.

The two items I am excited to hear about:

* Larger metal case, and running cooler: I have no doubt the first Surround Master poses no fire hazard at all and was never concerned, but just having any prized component running cooler is always a good thing, typically ensuring a longer life span.

* (Okay center channel haters ..turn away for this part) Having dedicated QS and SQ 5.1 output modes. ....Yesss!! While the first SM offered a center channel almost 100% compatible with an SQ center, it did NOT offer an option for SQ left and right front channels with the center channel removed. So 5.1 SQ in the first one really was a no-go. But now that's changed. And SQ is "almost" a shoe in for the Dolby Stereo matrix. More so than QS. And there's a lot of Dolby Surround encoded music and older film mixes that do not survive in discrete 4 channel.

Hi Wunlow

Gotta correct a misunderstanding, The SQ flavour of the SM has two choices of fronts, the 5.1 style with a center separated from the Left and Right and the 4 ch mode with Left and Right that naturally contain center channel information.

Also we find Dolby surround is usually a better fit for decode in normal INVOLVE decode mode but sometimes in SQ mode.

Regards

Chucky

 

[Wunlow]

My original reference was to your original SM, which does not offer SQ decoded front left right channels *with* the center channel removed.

Based on your previous reports, the QS/SQ version of the current surround master have two sets of outputs:
4CH: SQ or QS, depending on the mode switch
5.1: QS only


What I wouldn't like with Dolby Surround decoding via QS would be the front soundstage. My strong guess is if you feed Dolby Surround test tones into your QS decoder, you'll find some left and right front bleeding into the center. Meanwhile with SQ, if the design is done correctly, your new decoder in the SQ mode should have correct front channel (L/C/R) decoding with Dolby Surround material.

 

[Soundfield]

Either Wunlow and Chucky are talking at cross purposes or I'm beginning to loose the plot at this point.

 

[chucky3042]

My original reference was to your original SM, which does not offer SQ decoded front left right channels *with* the center channel removed.

Based on your previous reports, the QS/SQ version of the current surround master have two sets of outputs:
4CH: SQ or QS, depending on the mode switch
5.1: QS only


What I wouldn't like with Dolby Surround decoding via QS would be the front soundstage. My strong guess is if you feed Dolby Surround test tones into your QS decoder, you'll find some left and right front bleeding into the center. Meanwhile with SQ, if the design is done correctly, your new decoder in the SQ mode should have correct front channel (L/C/R) decoding with Dolby Surround material.

Shit!

You are correct. My 60 year old brain got rattled between what I wanted to do and by what we could simply do given the restrictions of the existing electronics in the plastic cased SM and the fact we did it a few years ago.

Err actually with the new shiny metal SM we could enact a properly separated center channel in SQ mode!

Anyway, time to drag my carcass out the back and slowly club myself to death.

Regards

Chucky

 

[Sonik Wiz]

I am interested in the discussion of a rear mix control. I don't have a Surround Master (yet!) but I do have a Fosgate Tate 101A. Spoken narrative such as on Tales of Mystery & Imagination stayed solidly up front with only some reverb in the rear. Dialogue from movies stayed locked up front. Firesign Thater SQ disc had center front voices with no leakage. Why would the Surround Master be any different & need the blend?

 

[jsrstereo]

Questions for Chuckie regarding the V2 unit (images shown in your Post #1)

1) is the "Level" knob a master output volume control, or is it an input level control?

2) is the LFE output active in all of the 6 modes?

Can't wait to get my hands on this cool looking unit.

Thanks from John R

 

[Soundfield]

Why would the Surround Master be any different & need the blend?

I have no idea, I have never felt the need for such a thing on the v1 SM.

 

[jsrstereo]

Here's a bump: Questions for Chuckie

Questions for Chuckie regarding the V2 unit (images shown in your Post #1)

1) is the "Level" knob a master output volume control, or is it an input level control?

2) is the LFE output active in all of the 6 modes?

Can't wait to get my hands on this cool looking unit.

Thanks from John R

 

[chucky3042]

Here's a bump: Questions for Chuckie

As we are controlling the overall volume of 6 channels we would need to use a digital 6 way volume control chip to do it in the output lines. We have used these chips before but in this instance we do not think it is warranted for cost and they tend to have 1 db steps. As I am trying to maintain as much "analogue" as possible we are making it a input overall level adjust (dual gang pot), we are also now including a clip LED so it has the benefit of maximising dynamic range.

The LFE output is active in all modes except stereo pass through.

Regards

Chucky

 

[jsrstereo]

Hey Chuckie: Thanx much for your reply. Now just when will you be sending my free sample, soon?

As we are controlling the overall volume of 6 channels we would need to use a digital 6 way volume control chip to do it in the output lines. We have used these chips before but in this instance we do not think it is warranted for cost and they tend to have 1 db steps. As I am trying to maintain as much "analogue" as possible we are making it a input overall level adjust (dual gang pot), we are also now including a clip LED so it has the benefit of maximising dynamic range.

The LFE output is active in all modes except stereo pass through.

Regards

Chucky