New Surround Master v2 - Pre-Order Roster Discussion Thread

[The Quadfather]

Mr Chucky:
I have a question. It is always a concern of the quad community because we utilize our equipment way beyond what is normally considered the lifespan of electronic equipment. It is beyond the support of the companies that made the equipment and in some cases outlasting the company itself. This is true with Audionics of Oregon. Audionics kept their design secret, and we didn't have schematics for a long time. I was finally able to obtain them after the company had been dissolved, from a former employee who was part of the design team. This allowed me to keep my Audionics going for much longer, until finally, one of the Tate chips, made from pure unobtanium failed. These schematics I distributed to the rest of the quaddies who had the S&IC, with permission, of course. The question is, will the schematics for the Soundmaster V2 be made availlable to SM owners at some point? I would also like to know if there are any custom made chips in the design, in other words, unobtanium. If so, will chip sets be made availlable? For it is certain that we will be trying to maintain this equipment long after support is gone forever.

 

[bigbillquad]

I'm sorry if this has been covered in the past, but as anyone upgraded from a Surround Master v1 SQ vinyl edition to a new v2? I can't say enough about the customer service on my v1 I have received from the Involve Audio team. If I'm going to upgrade I need talking points to convince my spouse. Are there notable improvements in separation, warmth, etc? Sorry, again, if this has been discussed.

Hi. workmeistr

I beleave the circuit board has been improved and being metal case dissipates the heat better than v1 plastic case, you connect all the cables and leave connected because you now can switch to any position SQ or QS on the fly with out turning the unit off.
Plus with the level control for line input and the individual channels can be adjusted to perfection.
I think this gives you the flexibility of control over the v1. SM unit that doesn`t have.
BBQ....

 

[The Quadfather]

Workmeistr: Tell your wife it's a one time purchase that will provide years of enjoyment and pleasure. Some men have fishing, some have hunting, some have sports. All potentially expensive hobbies. You have quad. Of course, that won't work if you do all those other things too. I have quad and ham radio, another expensive hobby. But with most of these, once you get set up, the expense isn't that bad for the pleasure returned. many years ago, amid much financial trouble, I convinced my wife to let me buy 4 JBL 4311B control monitor speakers. I was able to get a discount fro0m my then employer, a hifi shop. She protested, but I won out by making the argument that the speakers were of such quality that would last me a lifetime. I am still listening to those JBL's today, and I added another one I found in a thrift store for the center channel. The speaker elements have been reconed several times, but they're the same speakers. Fortunately, I bought my Audionics Space & Image Composer before we got married. I probably wouldn't have gotten that one by her. But it lasted until this year.
The Quadfather

 

[chucky3042]

Mr Chucky:
I have a question. It is always a concern of the quad community because we utilize our equipment way beyond what is normally considered the lifespan of electronic equipment. It is beyond the support of the companies that made the equipment and in some cases outlasting the company itself. This is true with Audionics of Oregon. Audionics kept their design secret, and we didn't have schematics for a long time. I was finally able to obtain them after the company had been dissolved, from a former employee who was part of the design team. This allowed me to keep my Audionics going for much longer, until finally, one of the Tate chips, made from pure unobtanium failed. These schematics I distributed to the rest of the quaddies who had the S&IC, with permission, of course. The question is, will the schematics for the Soundmaster V2 be made availlable to SM owners at some point? I would also like to know if there are any custom made chips in the design, in other words, unobtanium. If so, will chip sets be made availlable? For it is certain that we will be trying to maintain this equipment long after support is gone forever.

Hey Quadfather

Sorry about the delayed response, its because I had to think about it and ask questions to Dave the Bitch and Dawson as to their thoughts. I will be as open as humanly possible!!!!

Here is Dave the Bitch's reply

"
I think it's fair to say that if the company abandons the technology and we are no longer making any money from the equipment or the I.P and we haven't been able to sell it off to someone, then we could probably release the schematics, given that the actual decode is in software, still doesn't violate patents.

We might be able to promise that we'll keep a supply of the decode memory chip for as long as possible as well. I mean, it's only a matter of time before someone traces out the schematic anyway, not that it would do any good because again, decode is in the chip.

Maybe just say that if the unthinkable happens, we will support the community and their ability to maintain their equipment, and that may include schematic documents if necessary.

Dunno"

I then got this reply from the "great man" Dawson (he actually went to one of Australias finest schools and was a class mate with Prince Charles- such breeding!):

Fuck ‘em I say but that’s the kind of guy I am!

However, in the interests of humanity if the company goes into liquidation we will make the schematics available online to anybody who wants them. However, it would be up to a Receiver what he did with the software as this is a highly saleable commodity and it would not be in the interests of shareholders for it to be given away. We could not release it unless we wanted to get sued.

The only other thing you could do is make available some pre=programed devices or have a stock of boards ready as replacements.

Cheers

Dawson"

I hope that sums it up. I would love to release the schematics to you guys now but we are still working on the sale of our technologies and as such it would compromise our hand.

Regards

Chucky

 

[J. PUPSTER]

Hey Quadfather

Sorry about the delayed response, its because I had to think about it and ask questions to Dave the Bitch and Dawson as to their thoughts. I will be as open as humanly possible!!!!

Here is Dave the Bitch's reply

"
I think it's fair to say that if the company abandons the technology and we are no longer making any money from the equipment or the I.P and we haven't been able to sell it off to someone, then we could probably release the schematics, given that the actual decode is in software, still doesn't violate patents.

We might be able to promise that we'll keep a supply of the decode memory chip for as long as possible as well. I mean, it's only a matter of time before someone traces out the schematic anyway, not that it would do any good because again, decode is in the chip.

Maybe just say that if the unthinkable happens, we will support the community and their ability to maintain their equipment, and that may include schematic documents if necessary.

Dunno"

I then got this reply from the "great man" Dawson (he actually went to one of Australias finest schools and was a class mate with Prince Charles- such breeding!):

Fuck ‘em I say but that’s the kind of guy I am!

However, in the interests of humanity if the company goes into liquidation we will make the schematics available online to anybody who wants them. However, it would be up to a Receiver what he did with the software as this is a highly saleable commodity and it would not be in the interests of shareholders for it to be given away. We could not release it unless we wanted to get sued.

The only other thing you could do is make available some pre=programed devices or have a stock of boards ready as replacements.

Cheers

Dawson"

I hope that sums it up. I would love to release the schematics to you guys now but we are still working on the sale of our technologies and as such it would compromise our hand.

Regards

Chucky

All this talk of ending a beloved company like Involve during these times is making me extremely uncomfortable- (piling on how I’m already feeling). please STOP

 

[chucky3042]

All this talk of ending a beloved company like Involve during these times is making me extremely uncomfortable- (piling on how I’m already feeling). please STOP

DON'T PANIC!

All is well, just delayed due to this annoying Corona thingy. Real issues have been deliveries. Fortunately both our Federal and State governments are enacting various economic stimulus package (really goes against the grain of our conservative government) that we hope will actually assist us to expand manufacture shortly. All our staff are still secure but mostly working from home except me and Little Max. We time wage share with our solar battery company Zenaji that is starting to really kick on (also severely delayed by the Corona thing).

We now have all the parts for the first run of the new super sexy slimmed down twice as powerful Y4 system and the next batch of Surround Masters are happening.

I and we have been through way deeper poo than this and came our smelling roses. Our team is very committed (and perhaps some should be committed). More good stuff will happen!!!!!

 

[GOS]

That's great news!

 

[J. PUPSTER]

DON'T PANIC!

All is well, just delayed due to this annoying Corona thingy. Real issues have been deliveries. Fortunately both our Federal and State governments are enacting various economic stimulus package (really goes against the grain of our conservative government) that we hope will actually assist us to expand manufacture shortly. All our staff are still secure but mostly working from home except me and Little Max. We time wage share with our solar battery company Zenaji that is starting to really kick on (also severely delayed by the Corona thing).

We now have all the parts for the first run of the new super sexy slimmed down twice as powerful Y4 system and the next batch of Surround Masters are happening.

I and we have been through way deeper poo than this and came our smelling roses. Our team is very committed (and perhaps some should be committed). More good stuff will happen!!!!!

Thanks for slapping me out of it Chucky

 

[chucky3042]

Thanks for slapping me out of it Chucky

I might be forced to get Dave the Bitch to bitch slap you....girly man!

 

[GOS]

I might be forced to get Dave the Bitch to bitch slap you....girly man!

That has to be the classic name of all time.... DtB hahaha. Gotta be a story somewhere...

 

[J. PUPSTER]

I might be forced to get Dave the Bitch to bitch slap you....girly man!

Hey I know what would really make me happy
Involve could put out my long sought after dream of a SMv3... with that wireless remote Quad Joy Stick; affectionately named: The J. Pupster Honorary Bump & Spin Master Blaster

Bitchin’. (Too 70’s?)

 

[chucky3042]

When Dave started with us in around 2005 as a graduate engineer he was "my Bitch" as I gave him all the shitty jobs. Now he is head of electronics, he us just a Bitch yo deal with.


That has to be the classic name of all time.... DtB hahaha. Gotta be a story somewhere...

 

[Sonik Wiz]

Mr Chucky:
I have a question. It is always a concern of the quad community because we utilize our equipment way beyond what is normally considered the lifespan of electronic equipment. It is beyond the support of the companies that made the equipment and in some cases outlasting the company itself. This is true with Audionics of Oregon. Audionics kept their design secret, and we didn't have schematics for a long time. I was finally able to obtain them after the company had been dissolved, from a former employee who was part of the design team. This allowed me to keep my Audionics going for much longer, until finally, one of the Tate chips, made from pure unobtanium failed. These schematics I distributed to the rest of the quaddies who had the S&IC, with permission, of course. The question is, will the schematics for the Soundmaster V2 be made availlable to SM owners at some point? I would also like to know if there are any custom made chips in the design, in other words, unobtanium. If so, will chip sets be made availlable? For it is certain that we will be trying to maintain this equipment long after support is gone forever.

Good questions, legit concerns. I almost did a knee jerk response to your note but I wanted to hear the official reply from Chucky. Still, I have my point of view on this too.

The quality of design, components, & manufacture of the Surround Master is far advanced compared to 70's gear. For all us original quaddies it will probably out last us! Something to hand down in our will.

But this advancement comes at the price of self repair. If you look at the SM inside there's only 1 TO-220 device (probably for voltage reg) & everything else is very tiny SMD. To trouble shoot this & replace would be like saying I need to replace the BIOS chip on my PC MOBO. In addition even if you had schematics a core component of the SM is dual DSP functionalized by 2 TAS 3024. Even if you have the ability to replace SMD, even if you had a circuit schematic, you still couldn't do much with out the ability to program these a la Involve.

So except for replacing the analog level pots or phono jacks, I think the Surround Master does not lend itself to home or service tech repair. Boutique audio shops have a way of coming & going & worst of all being bought by HK. Should anything happen to Involve I would hope that they would take the high road, the Oppo way, & still honorably offer good tech support.

 

[The Quadfather]

All this talk of ending a beloved company like Involve during these times is making me extremely uncomfortable- (piling on how I’m already feeling). please STOP

Don't worry. I'm talking from my experience with Audionics of Oregon. I am in no way insinuating that Involve Audio is anywhere near going belly up. It is likely that their support will drop off and they still be in business. After all, can you get JVC to support or repair a 4DD5 CD-4 Demodulator? Yet, I don't worry, because like all audio companies at that time, they published their schematics and diagrams, and I have one. Fortunately there are no unobtanium chips in a 4DD5, so if it should fail, I can fix it. It's also good that they were built before chip components came into common use. Chip components are difficult to troubleshoot and repair. I do hate them.

 

[chucky3042]

That has to be the classic name of all time.... DtB hahaha. Gotta be a story somewhere...

When Dave started with us in around 2005 as a graduate engineer he was "my Bitch" as I gave him all the shitty jobs. Now he is head of electronics, he is just a Bitch to deal with.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

When Dave started with us in around 2005 as a graduate engineer he was "my Bitch" as I gave him all the shitty jobs. Now he is head of electronics, he us just a Bitch yo deal with.

Well you tell DtB he's really appreciated here
------
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[The Quadfather]

I have done repair work on chip style boards. It can be done by skilled technicians, but it's difficult to do without special soldering equipment. It's even difficult to do with it. A few years back we, meaning WGXA TV bought all new DVC Pro video tape machines. These were our last tape machines. They were service nightmares. All the new ROHS rated surface mounted capacitors were defective. Apparently, the manufacturer hadn't perfected how to make capacitors that were ROHS compliant. A pox on Europe for forcing ROHS on the rest of the world. Anyway, all those capacitors had to be replaced. Handfuls of them. Some very tiny. Right about the time my eyesight was taking a turn for the worst after years of excellent 20/20 vision. I believe that those problems have been worked out and ROHS failures are no longer frequent. The chip surface mount circuit equipment is as good as the wire mounted componentry of the 70's, but it is certainly no better. That equipment built in the Japanese hifi industries of the 70's was top notch stuff. That's why a lot of us are able to keep it going for so long. Almost all my gear is vintage, except my Oppo, and my next piece, the Surround Master V2. I was able to do minor repairs on my Audionics S&IC and keep it going until very recently until one of the unobtanium chips blew. We bought a piece of equipment for the studio the other day made by Tascam. It is audio gear. One of the sales pitches that Tascam made on this piece is that it was made with wire mount component circuitry. I applaud them for this. They, like me, recognize that this is a value to the owner that has a durable piece of equipment that can be easily repaired when necessary. But I digress. Understand, I'm not trying to be critical of Involve Audio for using surface mount, in fact, I thank you very much for supporting our industry abandoned hobby. We went through a dry spell where quad was a dirty word in the entertainment electronics industry. I also thank DTS whom I credit with having finally broken that dry spell.

 

[chucky3042]

I have done repair work on chip style boards. It can be done by skilled technicians, but it's difficult to do without special soldering equipment. It's even difficult to do with it. A few years back we, meaning WGXA TV bought all new DVC Pro video tape machines. These were our last tape machines. They were service nightmares. All the new ROHS rated surface mounted capacitors were defective. Apparently, the manufacturer hadn't perfected how to make capacitors that were ROHS compliant. A pox on Europe for forcing ROHS on the rest of the world. Anyway, all those capacitors had to be replaced. Handfuls of them. Some very tiny. Right about the time my eyesight was taking a turn for the worst after years of excellent 20/20 vision. I believe that those problems have been worked out and ROHS failures are no longer frequent. The chip surface mount circuit equipment is as good as the wire mounted componentry of the 70's, but it is certainly no better. That equipment built in the Japanese hifi industries of the 70's was top notch stuff. That's why a lot of us are able to keep it going for so long. Almost all my gear is vintage, except my Oppo, and my next piece, the Surround Master V2. I was able to do minor repairs on my Audionics S&IC and keep it going until very recently until one of the unobtanium chips blew. We bought a piece of equipment for the studio the other day made by Tascam. It is audio gear. One of the sales pitches that Tascam made on this piece is that it was made with wire mount component circuitry. I applaud them for this. They, like me, recognize that this is a value to the owner that has a durable piece of equipment that can be easily repaired when necessary. But I digress. Understand, I'm not trying to be critical of Involve Audio for using surface mount, in fact, I thank you very much for supporting our industry abandoned hobby. We went through a dry spell where quad was a dirty word in the entertainment electronics industry. I also thank DTS whom I credit with having finally broken that dry spell.

Hi quadfather
I was once reluctant to use SMT but these days I greatly prefer it as with the right equipment (microscopes and a steady 62 year old hand) I find it way easier and faster to work on than through hole boards. It really is an equipment/ training issue. These days for around $60 you can by useful digital LCD display microscopes that make it pretty easy. The advantages include better performance due to shorter path lengths and way reduced costs. I do understand most peoples reluctance however.

Regards

Chucky

 

[The Quadfather]

Yes, I do understand that there are benefits to surface mount electronics. That's why it showed up in RF and microwave circuitry first. less stray inductance. And I understand that it reduces manufacturing costs. But now it's ubiquitous, and a lot of stuff made with it is generally considered to be throw away stuff. But don't mind me, I'm just an old fogey. Now get off my lawn!

 

[DuncanS]

Next to 0201 sized components which I can't see to even put a 'scope probe on, my pet hate is Lead free solder, you can't get a decent joint (not a reference either!). The solution, get a technician to do anything, and they always make a better job of it! Plus I'm always a few thousand miles away from the prototype - safer that way