Peter Gabriel I/O (2CD/Blu-Ray with Dolby Atmos mix out 12/1!)

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Really... This is by design?

I'm so glad I run a multiple 2-channel (stereo) analogue amplifier set-up. And only switch on the amplifiers I need..
I read that DTS decoders were designed like this to emulate what was played in cinemas 5.1 using Side wall speakers and half back wall speakers, for each 5.1 rear Channel.

Then, when 7.1 was deployed for home, they kept that "design" to fully use the 7.1 speakers like in the cinemas.

Later, when the mixes were done for 7.1 discrete, the home user then had the possibility to different discrete content for the Surrounds and the Surrounds back. Always talking about "direct" mch, without any upmixing processing option.

There used to be AVR settings to "ON" or "OFF" the behaviour of duplicating the 5.1 Surrounds to the 7.1 Surrounds back. But in most recent AVR it looks that that setting was removed and the default setting ON remains just for 5.1 DTS and DTS-HD to duplicate to 7.1 surround backs.

I really think It is a good "design" from DTS for Blu-ray films, for home cinema, and with the 'standard mandatory' of alternate 5.1 PCM track that we could see in many Blu-ray films.

PCM, Dolby, and TrueHD, never did that kind of feature of copying 5.1 rear content to the 7.1 surround backs.

And Finally, It comes our Multichannel Surround mixes for Music. They used to use DTS more than other codecs to deliver lossless format. But with DVD we usually have DD and DTS to choose from.

I'm used to this, with DTS, and when I listen 5.1 FLAC, or Dolby 5.1 from DVD, I miss the 'option' to duplicate Surrounds to Surrounds back. I then have a "custom" speakers assign config, with my DENON 8500 to config that duplication for 5.1. But lazy to change to that special config.

Sorry for this 'off topic' in the Peter Gabriel thread.
 
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I really think It is a good "design" from DTS for Blu-ray films, for home cinema, and with the 'standard mandatory' of alternate 5.1 PCM track that we could see in many Blu-ray films.
Hmmm...

It might be a good/useful idea for creating DTS audio for movies. But I can't agree such a design is good/useful for creating music!

Also, are we to believe that the people who create 5.1 DTS audio mixes for music, play it back using a 7.1 speaker system? Or are they using a different 5.1 speaker layout to us home users?
 
Hmmm...

It might be a good/useful idea for creating DTS audio for movies. But I can't agree such a design is good/useful for creating music!

I do believe that sound is sound, either for movies or for music.

The idea behind it is the "average" user location of 5.1 rears (more at the back) and 7.1 Surrounds (near to 90º). With this design, DTS assure that the average 7.1 users perceive the 5.1 mix more similar to the "average" 5.1 users. And, also, they assure that non tech users use the full 7.1 speakers. Maybe the AVR manufacturer decision to remove the "ON"/"OFF" setting was imposed by DTS, not only to remove "unnecesary " settings.

The creation of surround music then just uses the media formats available for delivery and DTS is one of them.

Hmmm...

Also, are we to believe that the people who create 5.1 DTS audio mixes for music, play it back using a 7.1 speaker system? Or are they using a different 5.1 speaker layout to us home users?

Actually none of us have the same speaker layout, including speaker locations, speaker quality, room sound treatment, calibration, etc. Our systems are different from each other and different from the studio audio mixers.

What I mean is that 5.1 mix in the studio will sound "different" than in whatever home user.
The DTS playing into 7.1 with rear channels duplicated is still 5.1. The sound from the four surround "array" speakers is still only two channels of discrete content. So, it still sounds as 5.1 mix, without any modification like upmixing.

The tech users like we are, we have the options to change the configuration and avoid using the Surround Back speakers, or select alternate formats such as PCM, Dolby, mch FLAC when available.
 
I do believe that sound is sound, either for movies or for music.

The idea behind it is the "average" user location of 5.1 rears (more at the back) and 7.1 Surrounds (near to 90º). With this design, DTS assure that the average 7.1 users perceive the 5.1 mix more similar to the "average" 5.1 users. And, also, they assure that non tech users use the full 7.1 speakers. Maybe the AVR manufacturer decision to remove the "ON"/"OFF" setting was imposed by DTS, not only to remove "unnecesary " settings.

The creation of surround music then just uses the media formats available for delivery and DTS is one of them.



Actually none of us have the same speaker layout, including speaker locations, speaker quality, room sound treatment, calibration, etc. Our systems are different from each other and different from the studio audio mixers.

What I mean is that 5.1 mix in the studio will sound "different" than in whatever home user.
The DTS playing into 7.1 with rear channels duplicated is still 5.1. The sound from the four surround "array" speakers is still only two channels of discrete content. So, it still sounds as 5.1 mix, without any modification like upmixing.

The tech users like we are, we have the options to change the configuration and avoid using the Surround Back speakers, or select alternate formats such as PCM, Dolby, mch FLAC when available.
Well I can certainly listen in Direct or Pure Audio modes and only get 5.1 as I say. But that bypasses the EQ on mine, specifically the Dirac Live filters.
I asked a friend with a Denon and he says his will only play as 7.1 if he selects one of the "upmix" modes. So I wonder how this is implemented across different AVR's...and he does have a 7.1.4 system.
The surround back speakers kicking in does not bother me at all. Just was curious why it happens.
 
But I can't agree such a design is good/useful for creating music!
Simply turn the back channels to none when listening to 5.1 mixes and back on when listening to 7.1. I think I only have one 7.1 music only mix in my collection.
 
Ah, at least the Denon's I think have the ability to turn on/off some speakers on the fly?
I can certainly go into the setup and change speaker combinations, i.e. 5.1/7.1 etc but not the same thing, and it wipes all the calibration out, speaker distances, EQ etc. They are easily reloaded from Dirac Live but I guess not worth it for me. (well it's easy but not instant)
 
at least the Denon's I think have the ability to turn on/off some speakers on the fly?
Another member mentioned just turning his amps on or off depending on the number of channels needed, but I don't think either of those methods will work if the processor is compensating for the additional two speakers. It would have to be done in the speaker configuration.
 
Well I can certainly listen in Direct or Pure Audio modes and only get 5.1 as I say. But that bypasses the EQ on mine, specifically the Dirac Live filters.
I asked a friend with a Denon and he says his will only play as 7.1 if he selects one of the "upmix" modes. So I wonder how this is implemented across different AVR's...and he does have a 7.1.4 system.
The surround back speakers kicking in does not bother me at all. Just was curious why it happens.
I have a Denon avr-x2600, when I listen to a 5.1 dts hd ma mix sometimes it plays straight and sometimes it upmixes to dts-neural, I have no idea why and no idea how to stop it, i use the movie button when watching a movie and the music button when listening to music. It’s a brilliant player but I find it hard getting my head around the default settings although I always get atmos whichever mode i’m in!
 
I have a Denon avr-x2600, when I listen to a 5.1 dts hd ma mix sometimes it plays straight and sometimes it upmixes to dts-neural, I have no idea why and no idea how to stop it, i use the movie button when watching a movie and the music button when listening to music. It’s a brilliant player but I find it hard getting my head around the default settings although I always get atmos whichever mode i’m in!
It looks to me that It remembers the last option used, for each HDMI input select, source format , sound option used, etc.

When you change, It will remains that option for the next time you select the same input and It plays the same format.

I have NOT confirmed exactly what I'm saying because, in the end, it does not matter to me. Yes, its a little annoying and I have to check the Options every time I start listening.
 
I have a Denon avr-x2600, when I listen to a 5.1 dts hd ma mix sometimes it plays straight and sometimes it upmixes to dts-neural, I have no idea why and no idea how to stop it, i use the movie button when watching a movie and the music button when listening to music. It’s a brilliant player but I find it hard getting my head around the default settings although I always get atmos whichever mode i’m in!
Every once in a while mine will slip into DD Surround mode. But yes for Atmos content it always plays as Atmos, lights up the indicator on the AVR. I can use the remote and hit the info button and always shows Atmos.
Still trying to wrap my head around this DTS-HD thing. lol.
 
I have a Denon avr-x2600, when I listen to a 5.1 dts hd ma mix sometimes it plays straight and sometimes it upmixes to dts-neural, I have no idea why and no idea how to stop it, i use the movie button when watching a movie and the music button when listening to music. It’s a brilliant player but I find it hard getting my head around the default settings although I always get atmos whichever mode i’m in!
Every once in a while mine will slip into DD Surround mode. But yes for Atmos content it always plays as Atmos, lights up the indicator on the AVR. I can use the remote and hit the info button and always shows Atmos.
Still trying to wrap my head around this DTS-HD thing. lol.
My Denon does that from time to time as well for DTS, though mostly DD + DDSur and puts things in the rear heights
 
OK so in my avr there is a selection for DTS that should prevent 5.1 as playing as 7.1.
But it's not working, and I told support as much. We'll see what they come up with, but so far crickets.
I have the same Onkyo AVR and scrolling through the surround options to "Multichannel" seems to pass the native format. At least with 5.1 mixes, it doesn't upmix to heights. I don't have a 7.1 system so I can't check on that but give it a try.
 
I have the same Onkyo AVR and scrolling through the surround options to "Multichannel" seems to pass the native format. At least with 5.1 mixes, it doesn't upmix to heights. I don't have a 7.1 system so I can't check on that but give it a try.
For DTS-HD it does not give me that option. It just plays as 7.1, IOW all the base speakers, not the heights.
But playing in Direct Mode will play as 5.1, it just bypasses the Dirac Live filters I have loaded (expected).
 
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