HiRez Poll Pineapple Thief, The - VERSIONS OF THE TRUTH [Blu-Ray Audio]

[Neil Palfreyman]

@neil - I would appreciate to hear what your input on the mix was. Was Bruce’s surround vision always on the mark or did he need some persuasion?

That's a great question! Let me have a think about this one before I answer!

What I will say now is this:

I've worked with Bruce right from the start of his surround mixing, and in fact, even before that as a photographer and fan of the band in their early days. The point being that we have a great rapport and, even more importantly, a very high level of mutual trust.

I often have quite a lot of input into his mixes and had even more on this one than any previous mix. That was more down to realising just how good the material is and how perfect it was for surround really early on and having the time to do it. But it's not about "persuasion" - Bruce is always fully committed to both surround as a medium and also to having excellent dynamics. The limiting factor often tends to be time, as he's usually up against external deadlines! I got the V1 of this album in lock-down and well before the deadline, so we had time to do a lot of tweaking on it, and some of it was pretty major!

I think it's (easily) his best mix to date, but that's certainly helped by the quality of the material and Gavin's input into the "alternate versions" and it's a pleasure to read the comments on here and find that a lot of people agree with that sentiment.

Thank you (all) for the kind words.

 

[beerking]

Not quite sure what Clauspeed was listening to with his low score of 6.
I appreciate we all have differing likes and views but....
This really is a tremendous piece of work.
You can tell the love that goes into the material and the time taken to get that all important surround mix just right.
Not only which the fidelity is spot on.
What's not to like?
I have no hesitation in giving this excellent release a well deserved 10.

 

[splinter7]

Thanks for the reply Neil and I look forward to reading more on the topic. That is of course you are inclined and feel comfortable providing the back story. Perhaps in another thread.

Please forgive me if my choice of using the word “persuasion” was too strong. It was a poor choice. I never meant to imply Bruce wasn’t open to suggestion. I was just wondering if the initial thoughts on the mix were way different and perhaps not as immersive as the majority of us here on the forum like.

I do get the sense this was one of those “high water mark” albums for an artist.
Phenomenal effort by all and tip of my hat to you for your involvement.

It has been a pretty awesome experience from the listener perspective to ‘hear’ Bruce’s progression in mixing to surround.

I can’t help but think that it reminds me of Steve Wilson’s journey from an ES apprentice to the genre defining master he has become with his mixes.

This release shows that Bruce has clearly mastered the art.

 

[Neil Palfreyman]

Thanks for the reply Neil and I look forward to reading more on the topic. That is of course you are inclined and feel comfortable providing the back story. Perhaps in another thread.

No problem. I was more concerned about Bruce being comfortable with it - that "trust" thing again! He is, and we think it would be fun to provide my set of feedback notes to give a better feel for exactly what changed between the three versions that we worked on. I need to find them all and tidy them up, and I agree that it would be better to put them in another thread, so I'll probably add them to the initial post I did announcing the album. But I'll post again here when I have done it.

Please forgive me if my choice of using the word “persuasion” was too strong. It was a poor choice. I never meant to imply Bruce wasn’t open to suggestion. I was just wondering if the initial thoughts on the mix were way different and perhaps not as immersive as the majority of us here on the forum like.

Again, no problem, and no apology necessary! My reply was meant to just stress that he's always been completely committed to achieving that great surround experience that we all know the medium can deliver if it's done well.

I do get the sense this was one of those “high water mark” albums for an artist.
Phenomenal effort by all and tip of my hat to you for your involvement.

It has been a pretty awesome experience from the listener perspective to ‘hear’ Bruce’s progression in mixing to surround.

I can’t help but think that it reminds me of Steve Wilson’s journey from an ES apprentice to the genre defining master he has become with his mixes.

This release shows that Bruce has clearly mastered the art.

I agree, except I think he's been up there for a few albums, albeit sometimes limited by time or the source material he's had to work with. I would say that his two solo albums and "Where We Stood" are on a similar level, but everything came together to make this one really special.

 

[splinter7]

That’s awesome. I very much look forward to reading it over. Likely the majority of forum members would enjoy the insights.

 

[Neil Palfreyman]

That’s awesome. I very much look forward to reading it over. Likely the majority of forum members would enjoy the insights.

As promised.

 

[Clement]

I can't help but echo all of the effusive praise for this release--it's working its way into my top releases of 2020! Bruce Soord has mos def mixed a winner! And, as with other Pineapple Thief releases, the stand-alone Blu-ray comes chocked full of goodness--extras that distinguish the release and elevate it, for me, to must-own status.
The album proper is absolutely brilliant--an intelligent and insightful musing on the way the "post-truth" world in(to) which we live has morphed . . . and the way Gavin Harrison's contributions (compositionally and musically) contribute to the themes this opus explores take this to the level of masterpiece for me.
The mix (mad love to @Neil Palfreyman for his insightful notes) also works in service of the themes--this release seems to grow exponentially for me upon each subsequent listen, revealing ever more poignant depth and sophistication. I'm at a loss for superlatives!
And on top of the stellar main release, we are gifted with an alternate version that serves to further diffuse and deconstruct the exploration of duality and deceit.
This is one for the ages, sages! Buy it now and get lost in Bruce Soord's rages against the machin-ations! An unequivocal TEN, my friends. Stay Surrounded, Comrades!

 

[edisonbaggins]

Video review, explaining my vote of...
10!

 

[fcormier]

Yeah, on the main album it sounds like he put the stereo mixdown of the kit like 75% in the front channels and 25% in the rears. It's got a nice 'open' sound and there are some moments where tom or cymbal hits seem to lean more toward the rears, so maybe there's some panning trickery in there as well?

Gavin's percussion parts on the alternate versions must've been from separate stems or multis though. It sounds too discrete to be anything else -there's different stuff frequently split front/back or even in each corner.

I haven't listened to the surround version yet because I haven't reinstalled my setup since I did my renovations.

Some software and systems can do simulated surround with some relatively simple operations (additions and substractions):
- center: only what is common to left and right (
- rear left: only what is on the left, but not on the right (front left minus center)
- real right: only what is on the right, but not on the left (front right minus center)

I may be mistaken, but it is my understanding of it. Reading up on the subject shows they are other ways to do it.

 

[tezzalavell]

Hi Chaps I know I'm a newbie and maybe Prog is not my bag but .... I am led by a lot of you guys with respect to whats good in surround . Good in surround for me is not just immersive but instrument placings and nuances from various speakers . I found this to be a bit Phil Spectorish , Wall of Sound !!!! I put on straight afterwards Abbey Road I was rewarded with what I would call a great surround mix from frigging 8 channels max . The P T has numerous more channels and numbed my senses . Sorry chaps a mediocre 5.

 

[sjcorne]

I found this to be a bit Phil Spectorish , Wall of Sound !!!!

I know we all have different tastes/expectations when it comes to surround music and are certainly entitled to different opinions, but I have to say I'm a bit baffled by this comment. There are elements isolated in the rear channels on every song, most notably the vocal harmonies. The electric guitars and backing vocals in "Demons" are loud and clear in the rear channels only. "Leave Me Be" kicks off with an acoustic guitar only in the right rear channel. I love the Abbey Road 5.1 mix, but this is far more 'discrete' to my ears.

 

[The56Kid]

Hi Chaps I know I'm a newbie and maybe Prog is not my bag but .... I am led by a lot of you guys with respect to whats good in surround . Good in surround for me is not just immersive but instrument placings and nuances from various speakers . I found this to be a bit Phil Spectorish , Wall of Sound !!!! I put on straight afterwards Abbey Road I was rewarded with what I would call a great surround mix from frigging 8 channels max . The P T has numerous more channels and numbed my senses . Sorry chaps a mediocre 5.

5? Wow. You sure your system is properly balanced?

 

[tezzalavell]

5? Wow. You sure your system is properly balanced?

Yeah sorry , maybe not my cuppa tea but my overriding factor is surround mix . I like an active mix and to hear different things pinging in different speakers . This did'nt do it for me

 

[sjcorne]

I like an active mix and to hear different things pinging in different speakers.

Listen to the 'alternate' 5.1 playlist on the Blu-Ray and you'll get plenty of this

 

[tezzalavell]

Listen to the 'alternate' 5.1 playlist on the Blu-Ray and you'll get plenty of this

thx I will and hope it gives me the opportunity to change my vote . I look a bit of a silly newbie with a dissapointing 5 , but that's how i felt ...... sorry I caused so much consternation !!! I definitely am a discrete sort of guy

 

[splinter7]

5? Wow. You sure your system is properly balanced?

Are you sure your speakers aren't blown out?

H I found this to be a bit Phil Spectorish , Wall of Sound !!!!

Maybe my interpretation of Spector's Wall of Sound production style is off but I think of his approach as throw the whole kitchen sink into the mix and use double and triple instrumentation to create a super dense sound often at the expense of nuance & clarity. This album is NOT that.

This is has to be one of the most immersive, active, and sonically pristine mixes of the year. The use of the rears beautifully melds with the fronts and I can clearly experience hearing unique elements in the rears and dare I say some pseudo Atomos like placements of cymbals high in the sound field. It is also a release, I did not have to futz with the rears on to get the surround level to my liking.

To be fair, this is not the same type of mix as say the Doobie's Quadio. To me the Quadio's are the purest definition of discrete. That is to me: mostly assigning certain instrumentations solely to a specific speaker. I do not think therefore that Qudio is altogether that nuanced (maybe the exception being Floyd quads). It is more of blatant and isolated approach to surround. Ala the lead guitar riff sitting in the rear left most of the song.

This album is immersive. It's headphone music without the headphones. It's a 360° soundscape. Not pure instrumentation isolation into one of four quadrants.

Like sjcorne, I respect that people have different tastes and opinions and I would respect that this isn't your style of music. However, to give this release a "5" based on the surround mix is utterly baffling. Please don't think I am trying to chase you off the forum but I am utterly at a loss with everything you have said about this release.

 

[Marplot]

Without the expected scale in front of you, it is sometimes hard to remember how to rate releases.

30% SURROUND MIX
30% AUDIO FIDELITY
30% CONTENT
10% OVERALL PACKAGE

 

[tezzalavell]

well I will give it another spin tonight and write a fuller length review on my findings .

 

[tezzalavell]

Without the expected scale in front of you, it is sometimes hard to remember how to rate releases.

30% SURROUND MIX
30% AUDIO FIDELITY
30% CONTENT
10% OVERALL PACKAGE

Thx for this by the way I did struggle to find rules for the surround Poll

 

[Marplot]

Thx for this by the way I did struggle to find rules for the surround Poll

Yeah I keep a copy in a text file for ease of access when I vote. I would like it to be 20 points or 10 with half points instead of 10 to allow for more variance in voting. I understand that destroys the historical value of the existing polls and will not happen.