Quad in a 7.1 (or 7.1.2 or 7.1.4) system

[mandrix]

I've become used to it, but my TX-RZ50 will play DTS-HD 5.1 as 7.1. That is the way the AVR's are designed by Onkyo. More as a matter of principle, I complained long and loudly to Onkyo until the "Engineers" got involved and said that's how it is and the AVR's are designed that way.
I can defeat this in two ways: I can select "Direct Mode" but that kills any EQ, such as Dirac Live. Or,
Since I primarily use a pc as playback device, I can change Windows sound settings to 5.1.
There are nuances and caveats but basically that's how it is.

These days I would say >90% of the content I listen to is Atmos, so in that regard it's playing as it should in my 7.1.4 setup, i.e. all speakers playing and EQ is applied.

Like many I started my mch journey with Quad, in which I (ultimately) had 4 Infiniti 1001 speakers, properly placed equidistant from the sweet spot with the rears being behind.
Today I've become accustomed to the sides producing the "rear" content and it does not affect my listening experience.

 

[barturtle]

This is interesting and needs more investigation. I want my rear speakers to be in the rear / back of the square room. We'll have to compare an AF "Full Sail" with a Quadio "AWB" and a DV EW&F and see if this is true.

According the the manual, Pioneers VSX-LX805 has identical speaker mapping to the Onkyo

 

[ProgRules]

Interestingly, Onkyo (at least the TX-RZ70, but I'll assume their other 7.1.4 capable are the same) when 4.1/5.1 Dolby digital, which is what I think Rhino is using on their Quadio Blu-ray, rear info comes from surround back speaker, but DSD uses the sides.

That is very interesting, as my Pioneer LX 505 is almost identical to an RZ50. Since Onkyo, pioneer and Integra are all made by the same company. They even use the same firmware.

 

[ProgRules]

I can select "Direct Mode" but that kills any EQ, such as Dirac Live.

Are you sure this is true? In my Pioneer, direct mode keeps eq; only pure direct loses it.

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

Oh the benefits of having an OPPO with multiple analogue output connected to multiple stereo amplifiers. I only switch on the amps I require

 

[barturtle]

That is very interesting, as my Pioneer LX 505 is almost identical to an RZ50. Since Onkyo, pioneer and Integra are all made by the same company. They even use the same firmware.

I just checked, the Rhino Quadio are not Dolby Digital, but rather DTS-HD, which has different channel mapping.

 

[Owen Smith]

This could easily be solved by AVRs having config options to say which of the 7.1 rears/surrounds should be used for playing 5.x or 4.x content, with options for Rears only, Side Surrounds only, or both with volume reduction to match. Given it's all coming out of the DACs inside the amps anyway (sometimes even when using multi channel analogue ins) this should be pretty simple to implement in firmware by changing DAC channels in use, except in the case of Direct mode with multi channel analogue inputs in which case you ask for Direct and you get Direct ie accept there's no remapping available.

 

[jimfisheye]

There's a genuine screw up going from 5.1 or less to 7.1 or more with the side surround vs rear surround channels. There were originally supposed to be two formats of 5.1; 5.1(side) and 5.1(rear). For some reason the 5.1(side) designation started to be used incorrectly and then got "corrected" in some media players. And here we are!

Quad is meant to be 4 corners. The very same 4 corners in 5.1 or 7.1. The rears are not meant to switch to the sides in 7.1. 7.1 doesn't extend behind 4.0/5.1, it adds additional phantom side channels in the middle. I don't think there's any universal solution (a tag solution or something) because different media players are non-compliant at this point.

This is on my shit list to try to find a solution again since expanding to 7.1.4. I kind of want my shuffle play back where I can mix and match anything with anything (channel format wise). I use a different speaker manager preset for 4.0/5.1 vs 7.1/7.1.4 right now.

 

[mandrix]

Are you sure this is true? In my Pioneer, direct mode keeps eq; only pure direct loses it.

yes.

 

[ProgRules]

yes.

Another small difference in the PiOnkInt line. Yours get's global crossovers- mine has 1 crossover for all channels. I think I like my compromise better than yours...

 

[mandrix]

Another small difference in the PiOnkInt line. Yours get's global crossovers- mine has 1 crossover for all channels. I think I like my compromise better than yours...

Not so. Mine is divided by speaker pairs, with exception of the Center and Lfe. Unless I missed your point?

 

[MidiMagic]

IMO, the Home Theater systems started with 5.1, and it was no doubt that for a 4.0 content or 5.1 content the rear channel content goes to the 'only' existing rears.

Home theater was matrix Dolby Surround from effectively 1977 (but actually 1982 in consumer form) to well into the 1990s.

All VHS tapes and many DVDs are matrix Dolby Surround. Then they had to change what works because the patent expired.,

 

[ProgRules]

Not so. Mine is divided by speaker pairs, with exception of the Center and Lfe. Unless I missed your point?

No- you understood what I wrote- I just wrote it wrong. I have global crossovers. You have individual (or at least in pairs- which makes sense, though I thought each channel had it's own).

 

[ProgRules]

Home theater was matrix Dolby Surround from effectively 1977 (but actually 1982 in consumer form) to well into the 1990s.

All VHS tapes and many DVDs are matrix Dolby Surround. Then they had to change what works because the patent expired.,

Right- so they could continue to make money, despite the fact that some of our sources- in my case some dvds and a few cds- can't be properly decoded now.

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

All VHS tapes and many DVDs are matrix Dolby Surround. Then they had to change what works because the patent expired.,

While it's pretty obvious that 'analogue' VHS tapes are matrix Dolby Surround, I can't say I have any early DVD's that specifically mention Dolby Surround. What titles/content are you referring to?

 

[Owen Smith]

While it's pretty obvious that 'analogue' VHS tapes are matrix Dolby Surround, I can't say I have any early DVD's that specifically mention Dolby Surround. What titles/content are you referring to?

I have quite a few. "Unforgiven" is one.

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

I have quite a few. "Unforgiven" is one.

Wow... How old is your DVD? I have the following PAL DVD box-set (from 2010) and they are all encoded using 5.1 Dolby Digital.

Link: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rider-Outlaw-Josey-Wales-Unforgiven/dp/B003ILBDEK/

 

[Owen Smith]

Wow... How old is your DVD? I have the following PAL DVD box-set (from 2010) and they are all encoded using 5.1 Dolby Digital.

Link: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rider-Outlaw-Josey-Wales-Unforgiven/dp/B003ILBDEK/

I was a very early adopter of DVD, I had a Panasonic A350 player in about 1998. One of the first DVDs I bought was The Matrix on first release in the craptastic Warner snapper case. It was actually a sealed rental copy that Blockbuster were selling cheap because nobody was renting DVDs and they were giving up on them for a while, that's how early I got into DVDs. I hated VHS tapes so much I had a policy of not buying the damned things unless it was something I really wanted, I think I have about 4.

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

I was a very early adopter of DVD, I had a Panasonic A350 player in about 1998.

Me too... I was a beta tester of an early player, which was not region set. Those of us in the beta group were also given some discs. I got the region 1 and 2 versions of Blade Runner, the region 1 version of Mars Attacks, Interview with the Vampire and Twister. I bought the region 1 version of Waterworld (in a CD sized case) and the Mrs bought a few region 2 discs.

The good old days

 

[mandrix]

VHS tapes. Ugh. I don't miss them. Only good thing was we had a rental store out here in the boondocks, 4 miles away. Had a good selection.
Hated the Sony? player I had, always a pita.