QUAD & RE-QUADS LISTINGS

[fizzywiggs41]

Thanks for this list.
It's amazing how much vintage quad has come out lately between Audio Fidelity, Chicago Quadio, PF box, etc.



I'm afraid I'm unclear on the criteria for inclusion on a few of these.
Don't get me wrong, it's your list, I don't want to nitpick.
To be fair, some of the origins are murky.

The one that stands out to me is Super Session.
Al Kooper wrote fascinating liner notes about re-mixing it from the original multitracks to 5.1.
Lots center channel signal.
IMHO, that puts it in the same category as, say, Idlewild South or Stand Up, which you did not list.

The Beach Boys, well, your prerogative...
https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...lower-quot-so-called-quad&highlight=sunflower

Cheers.

I agree 100% on the "Supersession" sacd indication, and yet knowing full well myself that Al Kooper remixed it from multis and not quad.
I have no idea why I did include it, but for some reason it was in my written notes and yet it is not in anyway from a quad source..
It would be in a category like.....Previously Quad era but now available in 5.1, same as he did with "Child Is Father To The Man", and not 5.1 taken from quad tape ........but multis revisited.



:upthumb

 

[fizzywiggs41]

Anyways, does anyone think I missed some listings ??


I know that "Telarc" and "American Gramaphone" both experimented with quad in the 80's? And even "Delos"(but they had at least one SQ quad disc).



Two others I might consider would be :

The Band-The Last Waltz (movie)(dvd, bluray)

Neil Young-Rust Never Sleeps (movie)(dvd, bluray)

Only because they utilized 4ch dolby surround,3 front 1 rear




comments pro and con welcome.:sun

 

[fredblue]

I have to agree.

And that's why I added that little caveat under the titles. But not certain about "Incantations" could be derived from quad or not.
Also it isn't well known but Tubular Bells had two different quad mixes, Ommadawn may have two as well but that one I'm not sure of.


This is in no way an indictment to you or any one in particular Adam, but>>>>
It's strange but I wonder how one can be totally certain (or totally not certain )that some 5.1 mixes as I have listed, were not mixed into 5.1 from a quad source tape. It is easier to remix from something in surround to achieve another surround mix, the work is almost done for your new mix ? Indication from the engineer/s on the new mix are pivotal I figure.
Oh well just a thought. The lists are not PERFECT in any way, but they are as close as I could establish.
Thanks much for your input.

I apologize for confusion or discrepancies of course.





Fizzy the faulty

I'm absolutely far from expert on his work but pretty sure I read one time Incantations 5.1 DVD is incomplete because the multitrack tapes had gone kaput, which implied it was a remix from multis rather than Quad tapes being unusable but would have to double check that.

Edit: from Wikipedia re Incantations album;

"Unlike the first three re-issues in the campaign, there is no surround mix of the album on the DVD, only of the five remixed edits on the 'bonus' CD. Oldfield explained during an interview for BBC Radio 6 that this was due to the original multi-track tapes for the album had either been badly deteriorated or lost over the last three decades."

I think but am not sure by any means there may be two Quad mixes for Ommadawn, one on the U.S. SQ & U.K. QS LPs and one in the Boxed set (SQ) but would need to double check that to be sure of course

 

[fizzywiggs41]

I can say unequivocally that the four Mike Oldfied DVDS are not, repeat not derived from the quad discreet master tapes !!
The liner notes do indicate he went to the multis to create new 5.1 mixes.

The listings are wrong with their inclusion and should state,

Mike Oldfield-Tubular Bells (sacd)









-but there is some quad just not on the four dvds. I'll leave it up to the good quad slueths to figure it out.
You can PM me if your puzzled or just need to know.

 

[fizzywiggs41]

I'm absolutely far from expert on his work but pretty sure I read one time Incantations 5.1 DVD is incomplete because the multitrack tapes had gone kaput, which implied it was a remix from multis rather than Quad tapes being unusable but would have to double check that.

Edit: from Wikipedia re Incantations album;

"Unlike the first three re-issues in the campaign, there is no surround mix of the album on the DVD, only of the five remixed edits on the 'bonus' CD. Oldfield explained during an interview for BBC Radio 6 that this was due to the original multi-track tapes for the album had either been badly deteriorated or lost over the last three decades."

I think but am not sure by any means there may be two Quad mixes for Ommadawn, one on the U.S. SQ & U.K. QS LPs and one in the Boxed set (SQ) but would need to double check that to be sure of course

Great work oh "Master Of Quad Sleuthing" :51banana:

Tubular Bells 73 quad mix and 76 quad mix
Ommadawn 75 quad mix but not certain if 76 quad mix is the same or remixed in quad for inclusion of the "Boxed" set.
I thought both the QS and SQ mixes of Ommadawn were the same, but I could be mistaken.


I had "Incantations" mixed up with "Collaborations", but that's extremely interesting what you have found out about "Incantations", another good sleuthing job my friend. You understand quite well what a good sleuth must do to dig up rare and unknown quad.

:upthumb


Fizzy-who is quite humbled:couch

 

[fizzywiggs41]

Thanks for this list.
It's amazing how much vintage quad has come out lately between Audio Fidelity, Chicago Quadio, PF box, etc.



I'm afraid I'm unclear on the criteria for inclusion on a few of these.
Don't get me wrong, it's your list, I don't want to nitpick.
To be fair, some of the origins are murky.

The one that stands out to me is Super Session.
Al Kooper wrote fascinating liner notes about re-mixing it from the original multitracks to 5.1.
Lots center channel signal.
IMHO, that puts it in the same category as, say, Idlewild South or Stand Up, which you did not list.

The Beach Boys, well, your prerogative...
https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...lower-quot-so-called-quad&highlight=sunflower




Cheers.

I guess I should explain why I included those two Beach Boys discs, now please note I have a question mark with them.

To me I think there are still "unanswered" questions surrounding those discs.
Stephen Desper was not aware that they had "quad indications"all these years and yet he was the engineer. But he left Brother Records right after "Surf's Up" was released.(71)
There was also a record company change then with Reprise from Capitol, previously.
ALL RECORD COMPANIES in 1971/72 onwards were on the hunt for a Quadraphonic LP SYSTEM as the purchasing public were asking for one. They had some Q4 and Q8'S out and the general public were asking/demanding LP'S in quad.
You notice the introduction of all quad lp formats came on board in 71 through 73. (In North America)

Anyway we know Desper did not "encode" more than "The Flame" in Dynaquad in 1970 !, at Brother Records.
But did someone else, in 71 or 72 ??
Why Analogue Productions did what they did with the SACD'S is a mystery, but what is indicated on those tape boxes ??
That needs to be answered.....so given all this mystery, I listed them---with the question mark.


A curiousity on the listing I figure.

Fizzywiggs

 

[himey]

I guess I should explain why I included those two Beach Boys discs, now please note I have a question mark with them.

To me I think there are still "unanswered" questions surrounding those discs.
Stephen Desper was not aware that they had "quad indications"all these years and yet he was the engineer. But he left Brother Records right after "Surf's Up" was released.(71)
There was also a record company change then with Reprise from Capitol, previously.
ALL RECORD COMPANIES in 1971/72 onwards were on the hunt for a Quadraphonic LP SYSTEM as the purchasing public were asking for one. They had some Q4 and Q8'S out and the general public were asking/demanding LP'S in quad.
You notice the introduction of all quad lp formats came on board in 71 through 73. (In North America)

Anyway we know Desper did not "encode" more than "The Flame" in Dynaquad in 1970 !, at Brother Records.
But did someone else, in 71 or 72 ??
Why Analogue Productions did what they did with the SACD'S is a mystery, but what is indicated on those tape boxes ??
That needs to be answered.....so given all this mystery, I listed them---with the question mark.


A curiousity on the listing I figure.

Fizzywiggs

Mr. Desper has gone over this MANY times here. Those two albums which he engineered, were made for TWO SPEAKER surround effect. I don't know how he can make it any clearer with his wording. The Surf's Up and Sunflower on the multichannel portion of the SACD, is an upmix. They processed the two channels into four. It was never encoded for a quad release.

 

[himey]

...on the Grateful Dead Movie, DVD, there is an alternate dolby track with the commentary. During the scene where they are tuning some of the instruments, the woman who helped mix the film, mentions specifically, seperation of the instruments in the back speakers during the mixing process. Also in the same scene they talk about a bass guitar that was designed for different notes to be broadcast in a different array of speakers during the live show. Really interesting stuff if you haven't checked it out yet. Glad the dvd made it on this list but I am not sure it fits within the criteria.

 

[fizzywiggs41]

Mr. Desper has gone over this MANY times here. Those two albums which he engineered, were made for TWO SPEAKER surround effect. I don't know how he can make it any clearer with his wording. The Surf's Up and Sunflower on the multichannel portion of the SACD, is an upmix. They processed the two channels into four. It was never encoded for a quad release.

Where does he say he made them for 2 speaker surround ??
FWIW,
He wanted to do a type of 45 degree cutting angle which somehow made a surround type effect for two speakers but it was rejected. His final words on those two recordings are that they are stereo only, no surround encoding of any kind.

 

[fizzywiggs41]

...on the Grateful Dead Movie, DVD, there is an alternate dolby track with the commentary. During the scene where they are tuning some of the instruments, the woman who helped mix the film, mentions specifically, seperation of the instruments in the back speakers during the mixing process. Also in the same scene they talk about a bass guitar that was designed for different notes to be broadcast in a different array of speakers during the live show. Really interesting stuff if you haven't checked it out yet. Glad the dvd made it on this list but I am not sure it fits within the criteria.

I know back in the late 70's , early 80's Larry Clifton 's quad listings mentioned The Dead's Steal Your Face disc as a "closet" quad and I was always curious as to where that info came from.

I read sometime back on QQ a member indicated "The Movie" was from a quad source so I listed it as no one questioned that member. I don't have the disc btw, but always wanted a copy to see for myself.
I do have "Winterland" and it makes reference to a half inch quad tape.

I now wonder if more of their early concerts were recorded in quad reel that are now available on Blu-ray and DVD ?


Any info or clarification would be appreciated.

 

[zabble]

DAVID BOWIE-STAGE (DVDA-5.1)

This one was never released in quad. The DVD-A is a 5.1 mix by Tony Visconti from 2005.

 

[himey]

I know back in the late 70's , early 80's Larry Clifton 's quad listings mentioned The Dead's Steal Your Face disc as a "closet" quad and I was always curious as to where that info came from.

I read sometime back on QQ a member indicated "The Movie" was from a quad source so I listed it as no one questioned that member. I don't have the disc btw, but always wanted a copy to see for myself.
I do have "Winterland" and it makes reference to a half inch quad tape.

I now wonder if more of their early concerts were recorded in quad reel that are now available on Blu-ray and DVD ?


Any info or clarification would be appreciated.

Wikipedia mentions a new 5.1 mix for the dvd AND the origional theatrical multichannel mix. My Dead Movie dvd has two multichannel dolby digital tracks but they are the exact same file size and they sound the same. Hmm...

Baby Snakes movie is a new 5.1 mix on the dvd according to Wikipedia. It sounds very good if you jack the rears up a few db's and the Halloween performance is excellent. I am not sure about this one for this quad list. I really do appreciate compiling this list for the forum....

 

[himey]

Where does he say he made them for 2 speaker surround ??
FWIW,
He wanted to do a type of 45 degree cutting angle which somehow made a surround type effect for two speakers but it was rejected. His final words on those two recordings are that they are stereo only, no surround encoding of any kind.

Read Mr. Desper's posts on this or SHF forums. Both are specifically for Surf's Up and Sunflower. He goes in depth on the process multiple times.

 

[fizzywiggs41]

DAVID BOWIE-STAGE (DVDA-5.1)

This one was never released in quad. The DVD-A is a 5.1 mix by Tony Visconti from 2005.

It's in "Caps" for that reason "NEVER RELEASED IN QUAD". Derived from the 78 quad mix by Tony Visconti.

 

[fizzywiggs41]

Read Mr. Desper's posts on this or SHF forums. Both are specifically for Surf's Up and Sunflower. He goes in depth on the process multiple times.

That's exactly where I read he did not use any enhancement. It was rejected by the band.

 

[ubertrout]

Classical would be a long list. In lieu of that, I'm just going to give links for the biggest reissue series.

Sony Classical
A lot of these are hard to tell; I can't confirm if they actually used the quad mix, and in several cases probably didn't. The Schippers/NY Phil Alexander Nevsky/Pictures at an Exhibition and Bernstein conducts Copland are modern mixes from 3-track tape, I believe.

• Boulez Conducts Bartok (did not use quad mix)
• Boulez Conducts Ravel
• Bernstein Conducts Holst (The Planets) and Britten (did not use quad mix)
• Bach: The Four Great Toccatas and Fugues (E. Power Biggs)
• Tchaikovsky: Symphony No. 4 (Bernstein - Nutcracker Suite on Disc is pre-quad)

Deutsche Grammophon
These are the ones done by DG itself, not Pentatone. In all cases these discs have a surround mix that is believed to be sourced from Quad, since a quad mix was never released it's impossible to know for sure - not positive if the center channel is muted or artificially created. To be clear, not vouching that these are all from quad, but it would be surprising if they weren't.

• Karajan - Mozart Requiem
• Karajan - Beethoven 9th (70s recording, not the complete set from 63 also on SACD)
• Kleiber - Beethoven 5th and 7th (also on blu-ray box with his other orchestral recordings for DG, unclear is the Schubert 3rd & 8th in that set is an upmix or from a quad)
• Kleiber - Verdi: La Traviata
• Pollini - Chopin Polonaises

EMI/DTS Entertainment
DTS CDs with a muted center channel, released in 1998.

• Karajan: Tchaikovsky Symphonies 4-6 (one per release), Mozart: Symphonies 35-41 (two per release, excluding 37 which is actually by Michael Haydn)
• Boult: Tchaikovsky Orchestral Suite No. 3
• Villa-Lobos conducts selections from his Bachianas Brasilieras
• Paavo Berglund/Bounmouth SO: Grieg's Peer Gynt Suites and other Nordic works.
• Martinon: Complete Orchestral Works of Debussy (five releases)
• Previn/LSO: The Planets
• Muti: Aida (Caballe, Domingo, etc)

EMI
24/48 DVD-A 2 sided discs (other side is a DVD-A with DD and DTS tracks)

• Previn/LSO: The Planets
• Mackerras: Handel Fireworks and Water Music
• Previn: Messaien's Turangalîla-Symphonie
• Kempe: Strauss's Also Sprach Zarathustra and Alpine Symphony
• Cleobury: Bach Magnificat
• Martinon: Ravel Orchestral Works (Bolero, La Valse, Daphnis)
• Karajan: Wagner Overtures & Preludes
• Previn: Waltons Belshazzar's Feast, 1st Symphony, & Scapino Overture

Supraphon
A surprising number, all Japanese releases - listed here: http://www.hraudio.net/music.php?format=10&genre=0&label=582&page=1

Vanguard
Most Vanguard SACDs had two releases, once through Artemis and once through Omega. The Omega releases came first; the only thing to be aware of is that the Omega release of the Berlioz Requiem has a defective mix, fixed in the Artemis release.
They're listed here: http://www.hraudio.net/music.php?format=10&genre=0&label=35&page=1

Classic Records also released the Berlioz Requiem in quad DVD-A; their only quad release.

Silverline/Vanguard

Silverline re-released many recordings made by Vanguard in 5.1 surround sound as DVD-Audio discs. They advertised these discs as being from quadraphonic sources, but in reality only some of them were, and there's never been complete clarity on this point. Most of these were also re-released as dualdiscs, again by Silverline. I have not included a few older recordings that are clearly not in quad, notably the Adrian Boult and Pierre Monteux discs, as well as the recording of Prokofiev's Lt. Kije Suite and Peter and the Wolf with Boris Karloff narrating. I also originally included the three symphonic recordings done by Sergiu Comissiona in the list but subsequently removed them, when a little sleuthing revealed that these were actually very early digital recordings. Silverline does not have a great reputation for honesty about their sourcing, but at least these discs all include a high-res stereo track as well. It's a darn shame, because there were plenty of Vanguard quad recordings that need a re-release: http://www.surrounddiscography.com/quaddisc/quadclas.htm#V

(All with Maurice Abravanel, Utah Symphony)
Brahms Symphonies 1-4 (complete), Haydn Variations, Overtures (3 releases)
Sibelius: Symphonies 1-7 (complete) (3 releases)
Mahler: Symphonies 1-6 (6 releases, 5 & 6 on dualdisc only). 1, 3, 5, & 6 were released on quad, 2 & 4 were pre-quad recordings.
Tchaikovsky: Swan Lake & The Nutcracker (one release each)
RV Williams: Symphony No. 6 etc
Rachmaninoff: Symphony No. 3

Disturbingly, except for four of the Mahler Symphonies, it does not seem that any of the rest were originally released in quad, according to the quad discography. It is plausible that an unreleased quad mix existed for some of them.

Pentatone
The big one; they've heavily mined the Philips quad vaults, and also dipped into Deutsche Grammophon.

• Pre-2015 Quad releases: http://www.pentatonemusic.com/series/3
• 2015 DG Quad releases: http://www.pentatonemusic.com/series/4
• 2016 Philips Quad Releases: http://www.pentatonemusic.com/series/8

Dutton/Epoch
The new player in town, from the Sony vaults: http://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/products.php?cat=3

Mobile Fidelity
8 Releases: http://www.hraudio.net/music.php?format=10&genre=1&label=60&page=1

This is mostly off the top of my head, what did I miss?

Edited to add MoFi and fix typos.
Edited again to add more DTS CDs
Edited again to add Silverline

 

[fizzywiggs41]

GREAT JOB, ubertrout.

I knew someone could do it.









A couple of Pseudo classical/electronic artists that have DVDA and SACD in quad are ISAO TOMITA and MORTON SUBOTNICK
Not too certain which titles specifically.
And for TOMITA he has both current and quad era SACD'S , but his titles are mostly changed for Japanese so it's a chore to list, a chore and a half if your not familiar with Japanese.
But both artists are somewhat unique and should get recognized, they both supported quad very much.



fizzy

 

[ubertrout]

GREAT JOB, ubertrout.

I knew someone could do it.

A couple of Pseudo classical/electronic artists that have DVDA and SACD in quad are ISAO TOMITA and MORTON SUBOTNICK
Not too certain which titles specifically.
And for TOMITA he has both current and quad era SACD'S , but his titles are mostly changed for Japanese so it's a chore to list, a chore and a half if your not familiar with Japanese.
But both artists are somewhat unique and should get recognized, they both supported quad very much.

fizzy

Thanks! I don't really consider those guys classical, but distinctions are a funny thing. If this is going into one central list of all quad reissues they should of course be included.

 

[zabble]

It's in "Caps" for that reason "NEVER RELEASED IN QUAD". Derived from the 78 quad mix by Tony Visconti.

The liner notes from the DVD-A don't indicate that a quad mix was ever done in 1978 (or any year for that matter). Tony Visconti only says that "Quadraphonic recording was still viable in the late seventies and I wanted to cover this possibility." This was in reference to his placement of four audience mics at the front and rear of each venue, as opposed to the usual two.

 

[fizzywiggs41]

The liner notes from the DVD-A don't indicate that a quad mix was ever done in 1978 (or any year for that matter). Tony Visconti only says that "Quadraphonic recording was still viable in the late seventies and I wanted to cover this possibility." This was in reference to his placement of four audience mics at the front and rear of each venue, as opposed to the usual two.

If he placed the miking in a QUADRAPHONIC ARRAY because the format (quad) was still viable that would be a quadraphonic recording.

I could have gone either way for this selection but chose to include it.There are other quad selections that are 5.1 in my selections. Ray Thomas is 5.1 but "adapted" from the quad mix and it too was never released in quad.
Sorry, Zapple but I'm just not convinced.