QUAD & RE-QUADS LISTINGS

[zabble]

If he placed the miking in a QUADRAPHONIC ARRAY because the format (quad) was still viable that would be a quadraphonic recording.

I could have gone either way for this selection but chose to include it.There are other quad selections that are 5.1 in my selections. Ray Thomas is 5.1 but "adapted" from the quad mix and it too was never released in quad.
Sorry, Zapple but I'm just not convinced.

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. Just pointing out the facts as I know them .

 

[fizzywiggs41]

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. Just pointing out the facts as I know them .

That's very reassuring, and thank you for that .:sun I totally agree the facts are important.

But the facts are just a small bit lacking. I might suggest you put up the entire paragraph or two with pertinent facts regarding his historic use of surround on the Stage DVDA that he's finally getting to present in surround.

 

[ssully]

Classical would be a long list. In lieu of that, I'm just going to give links for the biggest reissue series.



Deutsche Grammophon
These are the ones done by DG itself, not Pentatone. In all cases these discs have a surround mix that is believed to be sourced from Quad, since a quad mix was never released it's impossible to know for sure - not positive if the center channel is muted or artificially created. To be clear, not vouching that these are all from quad, but it would be surprising if they weren't.

• Karajan - Mozart Requiem
• Karajan - Beethoven 9th (70s recording, not the complete set from 63 also on SACD)
• Kleiber - Beethoven 5th and 7th (also on blu-ray box with his other orchestral recordings for DG, unclear is the Schubert 3rd & 8th in that set is an upmix or from a quad)
• Kleiber - Verdi: La Traviata
• Pollini - Chopin Polonaises

I don't think the Kleiber Beethoven 5th/7th 5.1 mixes (which I've owned as SACD, then later as BluRay*, and btw, the mastering is different -- arguably worse on the BluRay, I'll start another thread on that...) are reissues/reconfigs of old quad mixes -- my impression from credits is that they were created for the SACD.

Same for the Pollini Chopin.

Those are the only two DG surround releases I own.

(*and in between there was a DVDA version! I haven't got hold of that yet....working on it)

 

[ubertrout]

I don't think the Kleiber Beethoven 5th/7th 5.1 mixes (which I've owned as SACD, then later as BluRay*, and btw, the mastering is different -- arguably worse on the BluRay, I'll start another thread on that...) are reissues/reconfigs of old quad mixes -- my impression from credits is that they were created for the SACD.

Same for the Pollini Chopin.

Those are the only two DG surround releases I own.

(*and in between there was a DVDA version! I haven't got hold of that yet....working on it)

I don't have the DVD-A of the Kleiber Beethoven either, but I do have it of the Karajan recording of the Mozart Requiem. Here's the view in audacity of the Kyrie:

 

[ubertrout]

I don't think the Kleiber Beethoven 5th/7th 5.1 mixes (which I've owned as SACD, then later as BluRay*, and btw, the mastering is different -- arguably worse on the BluRay, I'll start another thread on that...) are reissues/reconfigs of old quad mixes -- my impression from credits is that they were created for the SACD.

Same for the Pollini Chopin.

Those are the only two DG surround releases I own.

(*and in between there was a DVDA version! I haven't got hold of that yet....working on it)

I worry I'm taking this thread off course, but here's the 5.0 track from the Kleiber blu-ray for the first movement of the Beethoven 5th:


Edit to add:

Incidentally, the Schubert and Brahms look very different - in the Beethoven the rears are close in volume to the front left and right with a much quieter center channel. In the Schubert and Brahms all the channels except the front left and right are much quieter. I'm not an expert on this, but it wouldn't be unreasonable to read this as an artificial center channel in the Beethoven, and an upmix from stereo in the others, no?

Also, who knows about the mastering, but that's one pretty waveform from the blu-ray. Nothing like the compression you get in pop. It shows you need to crank the volume to really get the most out of the blu-ray, though.

 

[fizzywiggs41]

RE VANGUARD:


Did not SILVERLINE also release some DVDA'S from quad from the Vanguard catalogue ? Now I know some (well rather a lot really) of their DVDA'S are upmixed from stereo and mono tapes with the addition of Sanctuary Records., but I thought someone on QQ in prior posts had mentioned that the Siverline Classical releases had included some selections from the Vanguard Quad Catalogue.

Anyway just thought I'd add this query .





@ubertrout

That's probably the best way to highlight the quad titles from Deutshe Grammaphon and Phillips by providing the Pentatone link !
I thought about doing the same thing, but you did it in a more pleasing manner, I think.
It's so very important to mention those particular titles in that they were mixed in quad as early as 1970 , but the two labels NEVER RELEASED THEM IN QUAD during the quad era and continued to mix in quad many titles. They did this throughout the "Quad Wars", and now we're very fortunate to have them via Pentatone.
Thankyou, and also thanks to Thomas Mowery for pointing out this new source of quad treasures.

 

[ubertrout]

RE VANGUARD:


Did not SILVERLINE also release some DVDA'S from quad from the Vanguard catalogue ? Now I know some (well rather a lot really) of their DVDA'S are upmixed from stereo and mono tapes with the addition of Sanctuary Records., but I thought someone on QQ in prior posts had mentioned that the Siverline Classical releases had included some selections from the Vanguard Quad Catalogue.

Anyway just thought I'd add this query .





@ubertrout

That's probably the best way to highlight the quad titles from Deutshe Grammaphon and Phillips by providing the Pentatone link !
I thought about doing the same thing, but you did it in a more pleasing manner, I think.
It's so very important to mention those particular titles in that they were mixed in quad as early as 1970 , but the two labels NEVER RELEASED THEM IN QUAD during the quad era and continued to mix in quad many titles. They did this throughout the "Quad Wars", and now we're very fortunate to have them via Pentatone.
Thankyou, and also thanks to Thomas Mowery for pointing out this new source of quad treasures.

Right you are! I'll update appropriately.

 

[fizzywiggs41]

Wikipedia mentions a new 5.1 mix for the dvd AND the origional theatrical multichannel mix. My Dead Movie dvd has two multichannel dolby digital tracks but they are the exact same file size and they sound the same. Hmm...

Baby Snakes movie is a new 5.1 mix on the dvd according to Wikipedia. It sounds very good if you jack the rears up a few db's and the Halloween performance is excellent. I am not sure about this one for this quad list. I really do appreciate compiling this list for the forum....

Yes, Baby Snakes as listed should actually state, FRANK ZAPPA-BABY SNAKES ( movie DVD 5.1)

I think it worth mentioning as a derived from quad as they mention Frank originally mixed this in 4 channel in 79 in the DVD credits.

 

[ubertrout]

RE VANGUARD:


Did not SILVERLINE also release some DVDA'S from quad from the Vanguard catalogue ? Now I know some (well rather a lot really) of their DVDA'S are upmixed from stereo and mono tapes with the addition of Sanctuary Records., but I thought someone on QQ in prior posts had mentioned that the Siverline Classical releases had included some selections from the Vanguard Quad Catalogue.

Anyway just thought I'd add this query .

Added Silverline to the list, although what I found when I checked wasn't exactly pretty.

 

[fizzywiggs41]

Added Silverline to the list, although what I found when I checked wasn't exactly pretty.

I got a chuckle from your "caveat"

 

[himey]

Yes, Baby Snakes as listed should actually state, FRANK ZAPPA-BABY SNAKES ( movie DVD 5.1)

I think it worth mentioning as a derived from quad as they mention Frank originally mixed this in 4 channel in 79 in the DVD credits.

Thanks to your list, I have now listened to this twice. First without the video and then with it. The surround does add to the mix with a slight volume bump to the rears even with full range (rear) speakers. I may do some more "research" on this...

 

[ubertrout]

I don't think the Kleiber Beethoven 5th/7th 5.1 mixes (which I've owned as SACD, then later as BluRay*, and btw, the mastering is different -- arguably worse on the BluRay, I'll start another thread on that...) are reissues/reconfigs of old quad mixes -- my impression from credits is that they were created for the SACD.

Same for the Pollini Chopin.

Those are the only two DG surround releases I own.

(*and in between there was a DVDA version! I haven't got hold of that yet....working on it)

I looked at one more track from the Kleiber blu-ray, the 4th movement from the 5th symphony I think it tells you a pretty simple story about the mastering on the disc - the multichannel track is mastered at a very low level. Anyone who knows this symphony can tell you parts of this movement are supposed to be loud, especially in the opening crescendo, and yet the track doesn't get that loud. Fortunately, it just means you'll need to turn up the volume a bit more to get the sound right. The stereo on the other hand is close to the optimal levels.

Stereo:


Multichannel:

 

[4-earredwonder]

A plethora of anomalies also plagued Naxos' foray into BD~A. The rears were SO disappointedly low in volume that I resorted to playing the Stereo track [which undoubtedly sounded more robust].

I'm NOT opposed to ambient rears in classical recordings but when you fail to hear the rears.....best to play the album in stereo [at least, IMO].

I'm sure poor sales and lackluster choice of material also contributed to Naxos' withdrawal from further BD~A releases and 'tis a shame because some of them were worthy releases and were discrete in nature (Mahler's Eighth comes to mind.....a stellar recording).

 

[ssully]

I looked at one more track from the Kleiber blu-ray, the 4th movement from the 5th symphony I think it tells you a pretty simple story about the mastering on the disc - the multichannel track is mastered at a very low level. Anyone who knows this symphony can tell you parts of this movement are supposed to be loud, especially in the opening crescendo, and yet the track doesn't get that loud. Fortunately, it just means you'll need to turn up the volume a bit more to get the sound right. The stereo on the other hand is close to the optimal levels

Such level difference is of no consequence, though arguably, an 'optimal' level is one where peaks do not exceed ~3dB-6dB of digital maximum, in case there are intersample 'overs' and the playback hardware cannot handle them properly.

The mastering difference between the BD and SACD 5.1 I was referring to is in their EQ. I hope to get around to explaining, maybe this weekend.

 

[ssully]

Actually I forgot the by far biggest difference between the DG Kleiber BluRay and the SACD: there is NO SURROUND MIX on the BluRay. (DG 479 1106) So ubertrout, I don't know where your 5.1 BluRay files are coming from.



(The EQ of the BluRay is also different from the SACD 2 channel version -- it's 'smiley faced' compared to the SACD)

 

[ubertrout]

Actually I forgot the by far biggest difference between the DG Kleiber BluRay and the SACD: there is NO SURROUND MIX on the BluRay. (DG 479 1106)

(The EQ of the BluRay is also different from the SACD 2 channel version -- it's 'smiley faced' compared to the SACD)

Right...but you know the 3cd/1blu ray edition of all his orchestral recordings includes the surround mix, and it's not much more expensive than the stereo-only blu-ray.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[ssully]

Right...but you know the 3cd/1blu ray edition of all his orchestral recordings includes the surround mix, and it's not much more expensive than the stereo-only blu-ray.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Ah,thanks.

I actually just found it for *less* than the single 2ch BD.

 

[surround.sound.enthusiast]

I'm well behind the times to chime in here, (as the conversation has blossomed), but the original intent of this thread could be a great candidate for a sub-category in Mark Anderson's Quadraphonic Discography.
Granted, these listing would be duplicate to some listings in his other non-analog categories, but in the Quad-specific group it would be a handy reference for digital 4-channel and derived from 4-channel releases.
Not that he isn't busy enough keeping the total discography updated from time to time ...

 

[fizzywiggs41]

This is a disc that KBFH or British Biscuit broadcast. GENESIS-GENESIS LIVE (73)

Now I read somewhere's in one of the GENESIS liner notes at one time that this was to be the FIRST broadcast show by KBFH ? So I always wondered if it was indeed broadcast.
I searched through some notes via Live book set with the RAINBOW Concert and found that it mentions GENESIS-GENESIS LIVE was indeed broadcast.

A little "iffy" but by proxy it could be considered , but I'm certain not derived from quad as this Nick Davis 5.1 mix is just too good to have been from a quad-KBFH mix.

Never the less, I thought it worth mentioning that GENESIS had an album made in quad at one time.







I was always under the impression that it was prepared for broadcast and never happened, the notes say otherwise.

 

[arnold_layne]

Pink Floyd Wish You Were Here - The SACD release is not quadraphonic. Only 5.1 and stereo mixes. Only the Immersion set (BD and DVD) contained the quad mix.