Wow, the ins and outs of all this FUBAR audio mastering never ceases to amaze me 
-->-->
I'll be digging out my ANATO's to examine today for sure.
-->-->I'll be digging out my ANATO's to examine today for sure.
Queen - ANATO DVD-Audio True Scheiner Mix
- Thread starter LennonCobain
- Start date
Help Support QuadraphonicQuad:
What I noted about the the 2002 DVDA (non Scheiner edition) and the 2005 DVD+CD is based not on aural impression, but on what the actual rips (waveforms) show. I don't have the BluRay.
The 2 channel mix on the 2002 DVDA is smashed.
The 2 channel mix on the 2005 DVD (and the CD, it is the same) is mildly compressed.
FWIW, Brian May claims in the package notes that the original masters (stereo and multi) were used for the 2005 DVD+CD.
the 6 channel mix on the 2002 DVDA is uncompressed
the 6 channel mix on the 2005 DVD is smashed
So I use the DVD for stereo, and the DVDA for surround.
I would be interested to see rips of the BluRay audio
OK, needed a LARGE Magnifying glass and a Headlamp to see the little bugger, and IFPI LL07 is backwards also is that right? But yeah, seems I have a Scheiner (hole punch in UPC) and two of the 2002 Parlophone versions (one with large Super-Jewel Box hinge and one with small hinge?) I don't own the BD version.Hahahah, I tend to need one, sometimes!The inner plastic ring of my disc contains the Mould Code. The Mastering Code is in the inner ring of the coated section. I found I could read it when a light was reflected against it at the right angle. Some disc matrices are difficult for me to decipher, even that way!
Best of luck. I never sought the ANATO BD-A out; perhaps I should...
Decided to dig deeper into these two mixes (The 2001 DVD-A by Scheiner and the 2002 DVD-A by May.)
I wanted to hear what differences there were, and maybe see why May would want a re-do of the mix.
This is just for the song number 1- Death On Two Legs (Dedicated to......
First here's an actual scan of my 2001 Scheiner disc (so you know I've got the real deal!)
As to overall sound quality; I don't know that there's much of a huge difference, maybe someone with younger ears can discern that. But just looking at the wave forms, May's version seems a little more defined in the mid to upper ranges for sound quality.
Here are the DR numbers for both discs:
2001 Scheiner
foobar2000 1.6.2 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2021-08-06 11:17:52
Analyzed: Queen / A Night At The Opera (2001 Mix) [5.1 24_96]
DR Peak RMS Duration Track
DR11 -0.29 dB -15.58 dB 3:42 01-Death On Two Legs (Dedicated To.....)
DR11 -2.34 dB -18.15 dB 1:06 02-Lazing On A Sunday Afternoon
DR10 -0.91 dB -14.41 dB 3:01 03-I'm In Love With My Car
DR11 -0.74 dB -15.74 dB 2:50 04-You're My Best Friend
DR11 0.00 dB -15.77 dB 3:28 05-'39
DR11 -0.04 dB -14.24 dB 4:01 06-Sweet Lady
DR12 -0.31 dB -15.95 dB 2:14 07-Seaside Rendezvous
DR11 -0.21 dB -17.82 dB 8:32 08-The Prophet's Song
DR11 -0.36 dB -18.34 dB 3:34 09-Love Of My Life
DR12 0.00 dB -15.68 dB 3:22 10-Good Company
DR11 -0.01 dB -16.80 dB 5:56 11-Bohemian Rhapsody
DR11 -0.84 dB -16.44 dB 1:14 12-God Save The Queen
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Number of tracks: 12
Official DR value: DR11
Samplerate: 96000 Hz
Channels: 6
Bits per sample: 24
Bitrate: 7089 kbps
Codec: FLAC
2002 May
foobar2000 1.6.2 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2021-08-06 12:47:26
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Queen / A Night At The Opera (2002 Mix) [5.1 24_96]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR11 -1.27 dB -17.32 dB 3:42 01-Death On Two Legs (Dedicated To.....)
DR11 -1.85 dB -17.88 dB 1:06 02-Lazing On A Sunday Afternoon
DR10 -1.51 dB -15.88 dB 3:01 03-I'm In Love With My Car
DR12 0.00 dB -17.02 dB 2:50 04-You're My Best Friend
DR12 -3.04 dB -19.10 dB 3:28 05-'39
DR11 -0.76 dB -15.40 dB 4:01 06-Sweet Lady
DR14 -0.62 dB -17.99 dB 2:14 07-Seaside Rendezvous
DR13 -0.21 dB -19.94 dB 8:32 08-The Prophet's Song
DR11 -2.54 dB -20.07 dB 3:34 09-Love Of My Life
DR12 -2.02 dB -20.53 dB 3:22 10-Good Company
DR12 0.00 dB -18.24 dB 5:56 11-Bohemian Rhapsody
DR11 -2.89 dB -19.02 dB 1:14 12-God Save The Queen
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Number of tracks: 12
Official DR value: DR12
Samplerate: 96000 Hz
Channels: 6
Bits per sample: 24
Bitrate: 7079 kbps
Codec: FLAC
================================================================================
Here's what the wave forms look like for the song number 1- Death On Two Legs (Dedicated to......
2001 Scheiner
2002 May
Seems one of the main differences is just the amplitude of the Centers, from the pic below the 2002 May is on top and the slightly hotter Scheiner 2001 is on the bottom, (*the cymbal splash at ~3:19 skews the numbers considerably IMO.) But, they both have mainly Mercury's vocals, Bass, and some drums mixed similarly in the Center.
Here's my breakdown (the drums on both are very dynamic sounding and very well mixed primarily across the fronts.)
* I can't say I have a favorite of the two; it just seems like May, may have wanted to hear certain elements of his guitar work more prominently or something, or just wanted more creative control overall. There are some differences in vocal placement also.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Queen - A Night At The Opera – 2001 Scheiner Mix Vs. May Mix
01 - Death On Two Legs (Dedicated to ……
First 40 seconds
Scheiner – Intro- Piano Fronts.
Heavy Guitar and Piano Riff in the Rears at ~18 sec.
Guitar squeals Rears and then a swell going from Left Rear to Front Right then whammy bar bomb towards the middle/left front and abruptly ends at about 40 sec. in Fronts & Rears.
May - Intro- Piano Fronts.
Heavy Guitar and Piano Riff in Fronts & Rears (mostly Front focused) at ~18 sec.
Guitar squeals Rears and then a swell going from Left Rear to Front Right then whammy bar bomb towards the middle/left front and abruptly ends at about 40 sec. in Fronts & Rears. (seems similar to the Scheiner, but much more front focused overall.)
40 Sec. – 1:06
Scheiner – Piano playing higher notes mostly Right Rear and Left Rear lower notes; Guitar lead notes Front Right then some lower Guitar riff notes on the Front Left followed by High notes right drifting towards the Center. Then a sort of Spanish style high end guitar solo in the Right Front to Band vocals starting in Center and fades out towards Right Front “ahhh” at 1:05. Freddie’s main vocals enter in the Front Channels at ~1:06.
May - Piano playing higher notes mostly Right Front and Left Front lower notes; Guitar lead notes Rear Left then some lower Guitar riff notes in the Front (Center mostly) followed by High notes coming from the Rear Right. The Spanish style high end guitar solo comes in more Front Center; then to Band vocals mainly Right Front and stays there- “ahhh” at 1:05. Freddie’s main vocals enter in the Front Channels at ~1:06.
1:06 – 2:00
Scheiner – Mercury's vocals continue up front with a Cymbal splash from Right Front circling around to Rear Left at ~1:31, also Guitar heavy riff mainly on Rear Right; Guitar stabs at 1:33 Front Right to Center; A kind of Guitar descending scratch riff going from mainly in the Fronts at 1:43. Back-up vocals in Rears at 1:46 with Guitar distorted power chords in Fronts.
May - Mercury's vocals continue up front with a Cymbal splash from Left Front circling around to Rear Right at ~1:31, also Guitar heavy riff mainly in Fronts; Guitar stabs at 1:33 Left Rear and 1:38 Right Rear; The Guitar descending scratch riff going from Rear Right to Front Right counterclockwise around to Rear Left at 1:43. Back-up vocals come in at 1:46 and are more in all channels, with Guitar distorted power chords in Fronts.
2:00 – 2:20
Scheiner – Freddie sings “but now you can kiss, my *** goodbye” A cappella with a shaker going from Center to Front Right and thru to Rear Right. Then continued backing vocals in rears with “I think you should” vocals in Rear Left. Freddie’s vocals in the fronts continue followed by backing vocals “feel good” in Rears.
May – Freddie sings “but now you can kiss, my *** goodbye” A cappella with a shaker going from Center to Front Right and thru to Rear Right. Then continued backing vocals (seems more in all channels) with “I think you should” vocals in Rear Left. Freddie’s vocals in the fronts continue followed by backing vocals “feel good” in Rears.
2:20 – 2:43
Scheiner – May’s Guitar solo comes into the Center and Fronts with maybe a slight shift from side to side on the whammy bar part.
May – May’s Guitar solo comes into the Center and Fronts with more shift from side to side and occasionally moving into the Rear Right on the whammy bar parts.
2:43 – 3:10
Scheiner – Backing vocals come in with “ahhhh” A cappella going from Front Left/Center around to Rear Right. Then Freddie’s Front vocals continue, with piano mostly in rears an also some guitar midrange riff in Center (could be partially phantom mixed in.) Also distorted guitar chording ~2:53 mainly in the Front/Front Right with whammy bomb. Freddie sings “Shark” at 3:10 Front.
May – Backing vocals come in A cappella with “ahhhh” going from Rears. Then Freddie’s Front vocals continue, with piano mostly in rears an also some guitar midrange riff in Center (could be partially phantom mixed in.) Also distorted guitar chording mainly in the Rear Right with whammy bomb. Freddie sings “Shark” at 3:10 in the Rears.
3:10 – 3:42 (end)
Scheiner – Guitar mid-low riffing in Right Rear and some high-end stabs in Right Front. A swish of maybe cymbals at 3:19 from Front/Center to Rear Right. Freddie’s main vocals continue up front and back up vocals appear mostly in the rears at 3:22. Heavy Guitar chording continues in the Fronts. Backing vocals A cappella at the end of “I feel good” in the rears.
May – Guitar mid-low riffing in Fronts and some high-end stabs in Rears. A swish of maybe cymbals at 3:19 from Front/Center to Rear Right (but more subtle & less defined than the Scheiner.) Freddie’s main vocals continue up front and back up vocals appear mostly in the rears at 3:22. Heavy Guitar chording continues in the Fronts. Backing vocals A cappella at the end of “I feel good” in the rears.
I wanted to hear what differences there were, and maybe see why May would want a re-do of the mix.
This is just for the song number 1- Death On Two Legs (Dedicated to......
First here's an actual scan of my 2001 Scheiner disc (so you know I've got the real deal!)
As to overall sound quality; I don't know that there's much of a huge difference, maybe someone with younger ears can discern that. But just looking at the wave forms, May's version seems a little more defined in the mid to upper ranges for sound quality.
Here are the DR numbers for both discs:
2001 Scheiner
foobar2000 1.6.2 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2021-08-06 11:17:52
Analyzed: Queen / A Night At The Opera (2001 Mix) [5.1 24_96]
DR Peak RMS Duration Track
DR11 -0.29 dB -15.58 dB 3:42 01-Death On Two Legs (Dedicated To.....)
DR11 -2.34 dB -18.15 dB 1:06 02-Lazing On A Sunday Afternoon
DR10 -0.91 dB -14.41 dB 3:01 03-I'm In Love With My Car
DR11 -0.74 dB -15.74 dB 2:50 04-You're My Best Friend
DR11 0.00 dB -15.77 dB 3:28 05-'39
DR11 -0.04 dB -14.24 dB 4:01 06-Sweet Lady
DR12 -0.31 dB -15.95 dB 2:14 07-Seaside Rendezvous
DR11 -0.21 dB -17.82 dB 8:32 08-The Prophet's Song
DR11 -0.36 dB -18.34 dB 3:34 09-Love Of My Life
DR12 0.00 dB -15.68 dB 3:22 10-Good Company
DR11 -0.01 dB -16.80 dB 5:56 11-Bohemian Rhapsody
DR11 -0.84 dB -16.44 dB 1:14 12-God Save The Queen
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Number of tracks: 12
Official DR value: DR11
Samplerate: 96000 Hz
Channels: 6
Bits per sample: 24
Bitrate: 7089 kbps
Codec: FLAC
2002 May
foobar2000 1.6.2 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2021-08-06 12:47:26
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Queen / A Night At The Opera (2002 Mix) [5.1 24_96]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR11 -1.27 dB -17.32 dB 3:42 01-Death On Two Legs (Dedicated To.....)
DR11 -1.85 dB -17.88 dB 1:06 02-Lazing On A Sunday Afternoon
DR10 -1.51 dB -15.88 dB 3:01 03-I'm In Love With My Car
DR12 0.00 dB -17.02 dB 2:50 04-You're My Best Friend
DR12 -3.04 dB -19.10 dB 3:28 05-'39
DR11 -0.76 dB -15.40 dB 4:01 06-Sweet Lady
DR14 -0.62 dB -17.99 dB 2:14 07-Seaside Rendezvous
DR13 -0.21 dB -19.94 dB 8:32 08-The Prophet's Song
DR11 -2.54 dB -20.07 dB 3:34 09-Love Of My Life
DR12 -2.02 dB -20.53 dB 3:22 10-Good Company
DR12 0.00 dB -18.24 dB 5:56 11-Bohemian Rhapsody
DR11 -2.89 dB -19.02 dB 1:14 12-God Save The Queen
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Number of tracks: 12
Official DR value: DR12
Samplerate: 96000 Hz
Channels: 6
Bits per sample: 24
Bitrate: 7079 kbps
Codec: FLAC
================================================================================
Here's what the wave forms look like for the song number 1- Death On Two Legs (Dedicated to......
2001 Scheiner
2002 May
Seems one of the main differences is just the amplitude of the Centers, from the pic below the 2002 May is on top and the slightly hotter Scheiner 2001 is on the bottom, (*the cymbal splash at ~3:19 skews the numbers considerably IMO.) But, they both have mainly Mercury's vocals, Bass, and some drums mixed similarly in the Center.
Here's my breakdown (the drums on both are very dynamic sounding and very well mixed primarily across the fronts.)
* I can't say I have a favorite of the two; it just seems like May, may have wanted to hear certain elements of his guitar work more prominently or something, or just wanted more creative control overall. There are some differences in vocal placement also.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Queen - A Night At The Opera – 2001 Scheiner Mix Vs. May Mix
01 - Death On Two Legs (Dedicated to ……
First 40 seconds
Scheiner – Intro- Piano Fronts.
Heavy Guitar and Piano Riff in the Rears at ~18 sec.
Guitar squeals Rears and then a swell going from Left Rear to Front Right then whammy bar bomb towards the middle/left front and abruptly ends at about 40 sec. in Fronts & Rears.
May - Intro- Piano Fronts.
Heavy Guitar and Piano Riff in Fronts & Rears (mostly Front focused) at ~18 sec.
Guitar squeals Rears and then a swell going from Left Rear to Front Right then whammy bar bomb towards the middle/left front and abruptly ends at about 40 sec. in Fronts & Rears. (seems similar to the Scheiner, but much more front focused overall.)
40 Sec. – 1:06
Scheiner – Piano playing higher notes mostly Right Rear and Left Rear lower notes; Guitar lead notes Front Right then some lower Guitar riff notes on the Front Left followed by High notes right drifting towards the Center. Then a sort of Spanish style high end guitar solo in the Right Front to Band vocals starting in Center and fades out towards Right Front “ahhh” at 1:05. Freddie’s main vocals enter in the Front Channels at ~1:06.
May - Piano playing higher notes mostly Right Front and Left Front lower notes; Guitar lead notes Rear Left then some lower Guitar riff notes in the Front (Center mostly) followed by High notes coming from the Rear Right. The Spanish style high end guitar solo comes in more Front Center; then to Band vocals mainly Right Front and stays there- “ahhh” at 1:05. Freddie’s main vocals enter in the Front Channels at ~1:06.
1:06 – 2:00
Scheiner – Mercury's vocals continue up front with a Cymbal splash from Right Front circling around to Rear Left at ~1:31, also Guitar heavy riff mainly on Rear Right; Guitar stabs at 1:33 Front Right to Center; A kind of Guitar descending scratch riff going from mainly in the Fronts at 1:43. Back-up vocals in Rears at 1:46 with Guitar distorted power chords in Fronts.
May - Mercury's vocals continue up front with a Cymbal splash from Left Front circling around to Rear Right at ~1:31, also Guitar heavy riff mainly in Fronts; Guitar stabs at 1:33 Left Rear and 1:38 Right Rear; The Guitar descending scratch riff going from Rear Right to Front Right counterclockwise around to Rear Left at 1:43. Back-up vocals come in at 1:46 and are more in all channels, with Guitar distorted power chords in Fronts.
2:00 – 2:20
Scheiner – Freddie sings “but now you can kiss, my *** goodbye” A cappella with a shaker going from Center to Front Right and thru to Rear Right. Then continued backing vocals in rears with “I think you should” vocals in Rear Left. Freddie’s vocals in the fronts continue followed by backing vocals “feel good” in Rears.
May – Freddie sings “but now you can kiss, my *** goodbye” A cappella with a shaker going from Center to Front Right and thru to Rear Right. Then continued backing vocals (seems more in all channels) with “I think you should” vocals in Rear Left. Freddie’s vocals in the fronts continue followed by backing vocals “feel good” in Rears.
2:20 – 2:43
Scheiner – May’s Guitar solo comes into the Center and Fronts with maybe a slight shift from side to side on the whammy bar part.
May – May’s Guitar solo comes into the Center and Fronts with more shift from side to side and occasionally moving into the Rear Right on the whammy bar parts.
2:43 – 3:10
Scheiner – Backing vocals come in with “ahhhh” A cappella going from Front Left/Center around to Rear Right. Then Freddie’s Front vocals continue, with piano mostly in rears an also some guitar midrange riff in Center (could be partially phantom mixed in.) Also distorted guitar chording ~2:53 mainly in the Front/Front Right with whammy bomb. Freddie sings “Shark” at 3:10 Front.
May – Backing vocals come in A cappella with “ahhhh” going from Rears. Then Freddie’s Front vocals continue, with piano mostly in rears an also some guitar midrange riff in Center (could be partially phantom mixed in.) Also distorted guitar chording mainly in the Rear Right with whammy bomb. Freddie sings “Shark” at 3:10 in the Rears.
3:10 – 3:42 (end)
Scheiner – Guitar mid-low riffing in Right Rear and some high-end stabs in Right Front. A swish of maybe cymbals at 3:19 from Front/Center to Rear Right. Freddie’s main vocals continue up front and back up vocals appear mostly in the rears at 3:22. Heavy Guitar chording continues in the Fronts. Backing vocals A cappella at the end of “I feel good” in the rears.
May – Guitar mid-low riffing in Fronts and some high-end stabs in Rears. A swish of maybe cymbals at 3:19 from Front/Center to Rear Right (but more subtle & less defined than the Scheiner.) Freddie’s main vocals continue up front and back up vocals appear mostly in the rears at 3:22. Heavy Guitar chording continues in the Fronts. Backing vocals A cappella at the end of “I feel good” in the rears.
Owen Smith
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
On some Queen sites Brian May has been accused of doing secret 4.0 mixes that were falsely sold as 5.1, with people complaining Brian rarely uses the centre channel. Seems like a fine approach to me.
That's not really something you can tell from a waveform.
great detective work Mister Pupster!
i noticed that "Shark!" bit was the main thing that popped out as being different on that track between the two discs when i was fiddle-farting around with this stuff a few years back
I've got both and I can't hear any difference. Brian May's little redo reminds of the alleged $20 million drum tracks Mick Fleetwood supposedly did on ..... Tusk I think.
Both examples of artists either doing it right or making too much money.
(I like both so take it with a grain of sugar, lol)
Both examples of artists either doing it right or making too much money.
(I like both so take it with a grain of sugar, lol)
Wow it's like your a genuine forensic musicologist. Now I'm gonna have to check & see what version I have. I do have multiple over lapping Queen audio/video so it's time to re-check.
If the drum tracks cost 20million , it had to have been for the coke. There was a period of time when Mick was hoovering all the gakk he could find. Those were crazy times.
If I remember correctly, the Queen Videos DVD has a mostly silent center channel
Wow…a lot to digest there. Would it be fair to say that Scheiner made more use of the rear speakers than May?
Owen Smith
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
I don't think you can judge that based on one track. To my ears May's mix captures the spirit for the original album better.
I listened to these segments dozens of times just to nail down these differences; and I'm still undecided whether I like one over the other. I believe, at least for me, it helped to listen on the close-in computer speakers cranked up. But, there are definite differences. I'd like to know (maybe someone posted something here somewhere) why May felt it needed to be re-mixed. As far as whether May's version has more rear action, just study my notes and make your own judgement; pretty sure I caught the predominate differences. However, there's still the drum parts that I wasn't too dialed in on also.
And what's also interesting, is in the 2002 liner notes it has this for credits (it still credits Scheiner's mix):
5.1 mix produced by Roy Thomas Baker
Co-Produced by Brian May for Queen
5.1 mix by Elliot Scheiner
Hmmm…if you listened that closely and have no clear favorite, maybe I should stop driving myself crazy looking for the Scheiner mix.
I have the 2002 May version…plus the Blu-Ray Pure Audio…and even the 2005 reissue…which I kept mainly for the corny videos.
Maybe that is enough
Owen Smith
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Always remember that Brian May is a control freak at times. Roger Taylor and John Deacon had started work on mixing "Made In Heaven" (the Queen album put together after Freddie's death). Brian wasn't initially available so they mixed some tracks without him. When Brian showed up he insisted that was all thrown away and the mixes started again from scratch. Brian isn't always like that, but he seems to do it whenever anything has been done without any of his input. The Scheiner 5.1 mix may be a case in point. I still think in that case Brian was right to intervene, I much prefer his mix.
I'm sort of over the whole topic. I'd be willing to sell you my 2001 at cost, if you're interested. I mean, really. It's interesting that there are differences, but enjoyment is what I'm all about, and the BD does it for me. Fully discrete. Effective and sympathetic mastering that sounds great to me.Hmmm…if you listened that closely and have no clear favorite, maybe I should stop driving myself crazy looking for the Scheiner mix.
I have the 2002 May version…plus the Blu-Ray Pure Audio…and even the 2005 reissue…which I kept mainly for the corny videos.
Maybe that is enough
That's because May didn't remix the entire album from scratch, he merely had Scheiner go back and make a few tweaks. It's really the same 5.1 mix with several placement alterations (the piano in the rears on "Bohemian Rhapsody", the 'shark' voice in "Death On Two Legs", etc) and a different mastering.
From Pup's examination of one track, it sounds like it was the mother of all laundry lists!!!
Ha, I'm with you Mike, I'm over it! I was just curious if there were major differences, 'cause it'd been on my "To Do" list for years. Just not enough meat on the bones to worry about. If anyone else cares to double check my work or try another track, Have Fun, but I really just don't care much anymore
I'm more concerned now, why Tim's ATMP disc won't play
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