RARE VINTAGE AUDIONICS OF OREGON SPACE & IMAGE COMPOSER QUAD DECODER UNIT

[bigbillquad]

Hi. All

The …..AUDIONICS OF OREGON SPACE & IMAGE COMPOSER...... from the top has finally Sold..

Condition:
Used
“TESTED AND WORKING! - SEEMS ONE LED NOT LIGHTING”
Ended:
Apr 10, 2020 , 11:57AM
Winning bid:
US $495.00
[ 1 bid ]
It went for a bargain my opinion..

Now there is another...….AUDIONICS OF OREGON SPACE & IMAGE COMPOSER..... on eBay and not as good as the one sold...

( RARE VINTAGE AUDIONICS OF OREGON SPACE & IMAGE COMPOSER Only 250 Made | eBay )

Asking price for this unit is US $700.00....

 

[surround.sound.enthusiast]

Hi. All

The …..AUDIONICS OF OREGON SPACE & IMAGE COMPOSER...... from the top has finally Sold..

Condition:
Used
“TESTED AND WORKING! - SEEMS ONE LED NOT LIGHTING”
Ended:
Apr 10, 2020 , 11:57AM
Winning bid:
US $495.00
[ 1 bid ]
It went for a bargain my opinion..

If it is only and LED issue with the display: indeed, a good bargain. I was considering that unit, waiting to see if the auction might relist a second time at an even lower price and then I'd take my chances. But alas, no. I couldn't rightfully justify it at the moment anyway.

 

[par4ken]

I was the one who won that auction. Since my original unit started malfunctioning I've been keeping my eyes open for another one or even a parts unit. Not wanting to pay much more than $500. I was concerned about the supposed burned out LED. LED's seldom burn out. I was worried that it might be a bad DES chip, the direction detection circuit not working but I took a chance anyway. Hell the wood case alone must be worth a couple hundred!
When I fist opened the well packed shipping box I was impressed with the look of the unit, just like it was fresh from the factory. On my original unit the lettering for the volume control is almost totally worn off from years of use, likewise the input level lettering is partially rubbed off. Unfortunately during shipping the power transformer broke lose. It was held in place with a tie-wrap that had became brittle with age. In my other unit they used two nylon bolts to secure the transformer. Luckily an exact replacement was available from Digi-key for $22, it arrived within 2 or 3 days. It turned out that the transformer rolling around cased damage to the volume control and the lf-rf balance control as well. Lucky again I had some dual 50K Alps pots that worked to replace the broken 25K ones. The only thing is now I don't have an on off switch, as that was attached to the volume control I have a pot that I could use that is 25K with a push on/off switch but I would have to drill out the hole in the front panel to make it work. Alps pots require a smaller panel mounting hole than any other brand that I know of. Being a very low serial number I suspected that it might have the National chip set (although I was hoping that they would of been upgraded to the Exars). Well it does have the National chips, but still sounds very good. I put on Areosmith "Rocks" and "Get Your Wings" direct from the vinyl and was blown away. With my moving coil cartridge and tube based preamp, I've never Areosmith sound so good and nearly discrete too!
Oh yeah the burned out LED, was actually a blown coupling capacitor. the matrix output wasn't getting to the DES chips, so the output from Rb (before repair) was due only to the DES operating on the other channels! I dropped in another electrolytic capacitor for now but will be replacing them all with film types very shortly. Anyone with a vintage S&IC should replace all the coupling capacitors if you want it to keep functioning.
One other note, I guess because the knobs are aluminum and the set screws are steel they react with each other over the years. After removing about three knobs the Allen key was too stripped to be able to remove anymore knobs or even to be usable to re-tighten the knobs. Does anyone make a quality Allen key set that won't strip, so quickly?

 

[Circular Vibes]

Par4ken, if you have any chainsaw oil laying around, put a drop near the screwhead and give it a day to seep imto the thread. This is a trick I learned working in a bicycle shop. If you take a few drops of oil and mix with a few drops of varsol, it will seep even farther and is cheaper than Liquid Wrench. As to the Allen keys, try a bike shop that sells Park Tools brand.

 

[par4ken]

Par4ken, if you have any chainsaw oil laying around, put a drop near the screwhead and give it a day to seep imto the thread. This is a trick I learned working in a bicycle shop. If you take a few drops of oil and mix with a few drops of varsol, it will seep even farther and is cheaper than Liquid Wrench. As to the Allen keys, try a bike shop that sells Park Tools brand.

Thanks for the tips!

 

[guystooges]

I was the one who won that auction. Since my original unit started malfunctioning I've been keeping my eyes open for another one or even a parts unit. Not wanting to pay much more than $500. I was concerned about the supposed burned out LED. LED's seldom burn out. I was worried that it might be a bad DES chip, the direction detection circuit not working but I took a chance anyway. Hell the wood case alone must be worth a couple hundred!
When I fist opened the well packed shipping box I was impressed with the look of the unit, just like it was fresh from the factory. On my original unit the lettering for the volume control is almost totally worn off from years of use, likewise the input level lettering is partially rubbed off. Unfortunately during shipping the power transformer broke lose. It was held in place with a tie-wrap that had became brittle with age. In my other unit they used two nylon bolts to secure the transformer. Luckily an exact replacement was available from Digi-key for $22, it arrived within 2 or 3 days. It turned out that the transformer rolling around cased damage to the volume control and the lf-rf balance control as well. Lucky again I had some dual 50K Alps pots that worked to replace the broken 25K ones. The only thing is now I don't have an on off switch, as that was attached to the volume control I have a pot that I could use that is 25K with a push on/off switch but I would have to drill out the hole in the front panel to make it work. Alps pots require a smaller panel mounting hole than any other brand that I know of. Being a very low serial number I suspected that it might have the National chip set (although I was hoping that they would of been upgraded to the Exars). Well it does have the National chips, but still sounds very good. I put on Areosmith "Rocks" and "Get Your Wings" direct from the vinyl and was blown away. With my moving coil cartridge and tube based preamp, I've never Areosmith sound so good and nearly discrete too!
Oh yeah the burned out LED, was actually a blown coupling capacitor. the matrix output wasn't getting to the DES chips, so the output from Rb (before repair) was due only to the DES operating on the other channels! I dropped in another electrolytic capacitor for now but will be replacing them all with film types very shortly. Anyone with a vintage S&IC should replace all the coupling capacitors if you want it to keep functioning.
One other note, I guess because the knobs are aluminum and the set screws are steel they react with each other over the years. After removing about three knobs the Allen key was too stripped to be able to remove anymore knobs or even to be usable to re-tighten the knobs. Does anyone make a quality Allen key set that won't strip, so quickly?

Fantastic that it's working for you! The move to EXAR chips on my unit produced slightly better sound and separation, but it certainly wasn't a watershed upgrade in quality. My S&IC arrived directly from Audionics with the power transformer broken loose on the original order. I was heartbroken! Thankfully there was no damage to other internal parts. Called Audionics/Steve and got the go-ahead to temporarily repair it myself as I was quite adept at soldering (Electronics Technology Major). I was informed that they thought the strength of the soldering points alone was sufficient to hold it in place. Since mine was the 4th unit out, they caught this error in judgement early and began using tie wraps on the xformer from there on afterwards. I shipped my S&IC back to Audionics about a month after my temporary solder job for them to properly repair. It was returned with a tie wrap holding the transformer in place, too.

 

[bigbillquad]

I was the one who won that auction. Since my original unit started malfunctioning I've been keeping my eyes open for another one or even a parts unit. Not wanting to pay much more than $500. I was concerned about the supposed burned out LED. LED's seldom burn out. I was worried that it might be a bad DES chip, the direction detection circuit not working but I took a chance anyway. Hell the wood case alone must be worth a couple hundred!
When I fist opened the well packed shipping box I was impressed with the look of the unit, just like it was fresh from the factory. On my original unit the lettering for the volume control is almost totally worn off from years of use, likewise the input level lettering is partially rubbed off. Unfortunately during shipping the power transformer broke lose. It was held in place with a tie-wrap that had became brittle with age. In my other unit they used two nylon bolts to secure the transformer. Luckily an exact replacement was available from Digi-key for $22, it arrived within 2 or 3 days. It turned out that the transformer rolling around cased damage to the volume control and the lf-rf balance control as well. Lucky again I had some dual 50K Alps pots that worked to replace the broken 25K ones. The only thing is now I don't have an on off switch, as that was attached to the volume control I have a pot that I could use that is 25K with a push on/off switch but I would have to drill out the hole in the front panel to make it work. Alps pots require a smaller panel mounting hole than any other brand that I know of. Being a very low serial number I suspected that it might have the National chip set (although I was hoping that they would of been upgraded to the Exars). Well it does have the National chips, but still sounds very good. I put on Areosmith "Rocks" and "Get Your Wings" direct from the vinyl and was blown away. With my moving coil cartridge and tube based preamp, I've never Areosmith sound so good and nearly discrete too!
Oh yeah the burned out LED, was actually a blown coupling capacitor. the matrix output wasn't getting to the DES chips, so the output from Rb (before repair) was due only to the DES operating on the other channels! I dropped in another electrolytic capacitor for now but will be replacing them all with film types very shortly. Anyone with a vintage S&IC should replace all the coupling capacitors if you want it to keep functioning.
One other note, I guess because the knobs are aluminum and the set screws are steel they react with each other over the years. After removing about three knobs the Allen key was too stripped to be able to remove anymore knobs or even to be usable to re-tighten the knobs. Does anyone make a quality Allen key set that won't strip, so quickly?

Hi. par4ken

I am very happy to see a QQ member get this unit and that every thing looks great and you have it in working condition after doing your repairs to it.
My unit needs tech person to go over my unit to get it back to full working conditions I have found a person how works on vintage gear but I have him doing other projects at the moment.
BBQ....

 

[Sonik Wiz]

I was the one who won that auction. Since my original unit started malfunctioning I've been keeping my eyes open for another one or even a parts unit. Not wanting to pay much more than $500. I was concerned about the supposed burned out LED. LED's seldom burn out. I was worried that it might be a bad DES chip, the direction detection circuit not working but I took a chance anyway. Hell the wood case alone must be worth a couple hundred!
When I fist opened the well packed shipping box I was impressed with the look of the unit, just like it was fresh from the factory. On my original unit the lettering for the volume control is almost totally worn off from years of use, likewise the input level lettering is partially rubbed off. Unfortunately during shipping the power transformer broke lose. It was held in place with a tie-wrap that had became brittle with age. In my other unit they used two nylon bolts to secure the transformer. Luckily an exact replacement was available from Digi-key for $22, it arrived within 2 or 3 days. It turned out that the transformer rolling around cased damage to the volume control and the lf-rf balance control as well. Lucky again I had some dual 50K Alps pots that worked to replace the broken 25K ones. The only thing is now I don't have an on off switch, as that was attached to the volume control I have a pot that I could use that is 25K with a push on/off switch but I would have to drill out the hole in the front panel to make it work. Alps pots require a smaller panel mounting hole than any other brand that I know of. Being a very low serial number I suspected that it might have the National chip set (although I was hoping that they would of been upgraded to the Exars). Well it does have the National chips, but still sounds very good. I put on Areosmith "Rocks" and "Get Your Wings" direct from the vinyl and was blown away. With my moving coil cartridge and tube based preamp, I've never Areosmith sound so good and nearly discrete too!
Oh yeah the burned out LED, was actually a blown coupling capacitor. the matrix output wasn't getting to the DES chips, so the output from Rb (before repair) was due only to the DES operating on the other channels! I dropped in another electrolytic capacitor for now but will be replacing them all with film types very shortly. Anyone with a vintage S&IC should replace all the coupling capacitors if you want it to keep functioning.
One other note, I guess because the knobs are aluminum and the set screws are steel they react with each other over the years. After removing about three knobs the Allen key was too stripped to be able to remove anymore knobs or even to be usable to re-tighten the knobs. Does anyone make a quality Allen key set that won't strip, so quickly?

That is an amazing tale of repair & restore. Do I understand right you are using the "new" unit to replace your old one? I guess you can scavenge parts back & forth to keep one going! I've noticed S&IC owners are the most passionate & dedicated people I know about keeping their gear going. The cool looks, the LED display, the variable surround enhance all add up to a truly unique unit.

 

[par4ken]

That is an amazing tale of repair & restore. Do I understand right you are using the "new" unit to replace your old one? I guess you can scavenge parts back & forth to keep one going! I've noticed S&IC owners are the most passionate & dedicated people I know about keeping their gear going. The cool looks, the LED display, the variable surround enhance all add up to a truly unique unit.

No I actually want to try to keep both going. I'll likely use the "new" one for most SQ decodes but have been switching back and forth with Involve and some vintage decoders just out of curiosity and to see how each preforms. My original unit has the Axial Tilt circuit adjusted and tape output connected to the computer so that I can rip all my vinyl with maximum separation. I plan to play around with that unit a bit more, perhaps I can add an additional circuit to make the front direction control circuit work properly or at least a bit better.
It occurred to me that you could patch up a unit with totally dead DES chips by using the Motorola full logic chips. Volume and balance of both are controlled the same way, the separation control could be used as the Dimension control. Although such a fix would not be nearly the same as a Tate, it would sound much better than the full 3 chip Motorola design. The eight pole phase shift network makes a big difference over the three pole one. Another interesting experiment is to listen to the decoder without any logic enhancement at all, that's how the original Audionics decoder worked and it sounded pretty good.

 

[Sonik Wiz]

No I actually want to try to keep both going. I'll likely use the "new" one for most SQ decodes but have been switching back and forth with Involve and some vintage decoders just out of curiosity and to see how each preforms. My original unit has the Axial Tilt circuit adjusted and tape output connected to the computer so that I can rip all my vinyl with maximum separation. I plan to play around with that unit a bit more, perhaps I can add an additional circuit to make the front direction control circuit work properly or at least a bit better.
It occurred to me that you could patch up a unit with totally dead DES chips by using the Motorola full logic chips. Volume and balance of both are controlled the same way, the separation control could be used as the Dimension control. Although such a fix would not be nearly the same as a Tate, it would sound much better than the full 3 chip Motorola design. The eight pole phase shift network makes a big difference over the three pole one. Another interesting experiment is to listen to the decoder without any logic enhancement at all, that's how the original Audionics decoder worked and it sounded pretty good.

RE: Axial Tilt
Inspired by this thread & others I decided to give axial tilt compensation a try on the PC using AA 3. Now an analog circuit that does this would be pretty simple but my main problem was finding a test record that had left only & right only test tones for more than 5>10 secs. But on a PC that 10 sec tone is plenty long to fiddle with & analyze.

Firstly I had to find a true mono record & balance the preamp outputs as close as possible. It shouldn't be assumed that just because the balance control is straight up you are getting a correctly balanced signal. On my Adcom pre-amp I found nudging the balance output just barely CCW to almost 11:00 gave me a balance within .1 dB.

My Anthem AVM 30 has analog in digital out via SPDIF & that's how I checked the balance & axial tilt. I then tried an SQ test record using left front & right front tones for left only & right only. I did the same thing with an un-decoded CD-4 record to compare.

It's very easy to control the amount of in-phase or opposite phase blending as needed in Channel Mixer. But it took me 45 mins going back & forth & checking results on the Amplitude Statistics Window to get it tuned in. It is now saved as a ch mix pre-set. I'd have to go downstairs & look at my notes but with an AT 440 mlb cartridge with 20dB separation at 1 kHz to 35dB separation. The original crosstalk was not symmetrical rather one ch bled a little more into the other. I didn't find any significant differences using the CD-4 or SQ record. Also at the very small mixing levels & measuremenrts I'm talking about record surface noise is the limiting factor. Might be worth trying again if I ever get a new stereo test record.

I haven't had a chance to compare with actual listening yet. But I have an upmix I want to do from a new The Wizard of Speed & Time soundtrack LP that I figure deserves the deluxe treatment.

 

[M-D-Z]

One other note, I guess because the knobs are aluminum and the set screws are steel they react with each other over the years. After removing about three knobs the Allen key was too stripped to be able to remove anymore knobs or even to be usable to re-tighten the knobs. Does anyone make a quality Allen key set that won't strip, so quickly?

Just found this thread now, so a couple (very late to the party) tips that might help someone researching the same problem(s).
The best penetrant I have ever found to be effective in freeing up originally black-oxided grub screws galvanically frozen in aluminum is:
TriZoil Penetrating Solvent
Part No. TPS100
from the Castoleum Corporation.
This unlikely winner is actually made from 100% organic degummed castor oil.

As far as the best “Allen” key,
try HK - Holo Krome or Bondhus, and hopefully they haven’t also joined the ranks of manufacturers who have long since off-shored the making of these items to generic garbage production. I have sets of socket head cap screw tools that have been in continuous machine shop duty for 40 & 50 years!
I have two Fosgate Audionics 3610 units that suffered the same fate, (same problem/same cause) and this TriZoil worked and the HK tools worked great! It required that I first soften the light corrosion inside the set screws so that I could achieve full depth insertion of the “key” into the screw socket, which coupled with the alleviation from corrosion bonding to the knob from the penetrant, made extraction a success.

 

[M-D-Z]

Wow I have never seen a wooden case for these must be a custom built job.

This gorgeous, stackable, walnut, rack mount style cabinet is found on a lot of Crown items from that era. I have quite a few, from 1-U, all the way up to 10-U high) and my old Crown picture catalogs show how these wood boxes were available directly from Crown (and Amcron) when new.

I don’t know the relationship between Crown and Jeln, but this wooden cabinet is either an original Jeln, or a very good knock-off. There should be an embossed metal “Jeln” tag on the rear lower cross board.
Some (or most) were a fine dark walnut veneer over medium density composite flake board, but also some were solid white oak, cherry or rosewood.

 

[jefe1]

I have a repair question for you knowledgeable people above

Can a replacement remote control jack be found for the composer? Many of them are missing this plug in on the rear.
Although I have a minimal to no chance of finding the matching remote control made for this unit it would be nice to have the jack that takes it. It looks like some kind of serial port.

From the picture above it appears the number on this part is AMP 206594-1 D125

 

[par4ken]

I have a repair question for you knowledgeable people above

Can a replacement remote control jack be found for the composer? Many of them are missing this plug in on the rear.
Although I have a minimal to no chance of finding the matching remote control made for this unit it would be nice to have the jack that takes it. It looks like some kind of serial port.

From the picture above it appears the number on this part is AMP 206594-1 D125

It's a common DB25 type connector. Available from numerous suppliers.

 

[jefe1]

Par4ken do you simply attach the connector? I mean does it make contact through the holes on the mounting area?

 

[par4ken]

Par4ken do you simply attach the connector? I mean does it make contact through the holes on the mounting area?

It has to be soldered in. It should also be attached to the board by two small sized nuts and bolts for rigidity. If you aren't going to use a remote there is really no reason to bother to add it in.

 

[furui_suterioo]

Although you could use it to control a lightshow:

Has anyone here ever tried this?

 

[jefe1]

Maybe BigBill is going to set up a disco in his man cave and he will let us know about the light show.

 

[par4ken]

Although you could use it to control a lightshow:
View attachment 58856
Has anyone here ever tried this?

I was going to at one time, just didn't get around to it!

 

[Akaiquadster2]

I was going to at one time, just didn't get around to it!

Yes - I have one of these units - as previously mentioned- and I’m not sure I’ll ever get around to using it- I’m based in Australia though.

The unit is 12154 - so extra disco wire required - have original box and instructions and it’s in very good cosmetic and - as far as I can tell, LED outage aside- operational condition.
Along with two tate units - one pictured- and the decoders spectrum analysis units and other bits and pieces I have, I’m just not sure what to do?