Reality Technologies - New surround technology

[0tto]

thanks Bob for review. so this unit exclusively to decode matrixed streams and to produce
faux quad sound stage from stereo. what source have you used to produce 5.1 when you bumped into bug?
i mean matrix or stereo.

 

[rustyandi]

I am glad that someone else has tried the unit
I felt a little alone about the decoding
But it is not a SQ decoder
Ron

 

[phydo]

Bob:

Thank you for the review. I am starting to get excited about this decoder and look forward to it becoming available for purchase. Using the QSD-1 as a benchmark would you discuss in greater detail your impressions of the channel separation: left-right, front-rear, and diagonal? What did you think of the signal to noise ratio and dynamic range? Would you say the ISD chip set is faster than the QSD-1 chip set?

Bob, again thank you for taking the time to audition the ISD and write the review.

Justin

 

[Bob Romano]

I am glad that someone else has tried the unit
I felt a little alone about the decoding
But it is not a SQ decoder
Ron

You are right. It is not an SQ decoder. I just meant that I was going to test a few SQ encoded sources to listen to the results.

For QS and faux surround, though this box is amazing.

 

[Bob Romano]

Bob:

Thank you for the review. I am starting to get excited about this decoder and look forward to it becoming available for purchase. Using the QSD-1 as a benchmark would you discuss in greater detail your impressions of the channel separation: left-right, front-rear, and diagonal? What did you think of the signal to noise ratio and dynamic range? Would you say the ISD chip set is faster than the QSD-1 chip set?

Bob, again thank you for taking the time to audition the ISD and write the review.

Justin

I was really excited when I began to play "You Got The Love" by Rufus for example. The opening guitar riff comes solidly from the rear right with reverb from the guitar along with a hi hat hit in the front.

I thought the overall sound of the unit was excellent. I detected no extra noise or coloration of the sound. Overall everything I played through it, especially QS, to my ears sounded as close to discrete as you could get. I will post some samples in the next couple of days as soon as I get a break from work. I couldn't say for sure about the difference in the ISD chip to the QSD-1 except to say that I was impressed by the overall sounds and separation.

 

[Bob Romano]

thanks Bob for review. so this unit exclusively to decode matrixed streams and to produce
faux quad sound stage from stereo. what source have you used to produce 5.1 when you bumped into bug?
i mean matrix or stereo.

The source (QS or stereo) didn't seem to matter as much as what was going on in the source. The fronts would pump almost like a limiter or compressor opening up and then closing too quickly based on what was happening in the mix. Things like guitar strums or drum hits would open up the signal then it would close down again. Almost like breathing.

Charlie seems to think that this is just a minor tweak. Hopefully the samples I sent him will be helpful.

 

[Bob Romano]

I can say that no matter what I have played through the box, even in just 4 channel, really give nice depth and opens up the mix. The degree of depth will be varied by the actual mix of your source.

 

[chucky3042]

Hello All

Thank you Bob for taking the time for the initial evaluation, we will send you the INVOLVE intelligent ENCODER in 2 months time so you can evaluate the full encode / decode and the encode "stereo" mix.

With regards to the reported frontal pumping you observed in the 5.1 mode, we did not here it on the material that we chose in the development phase. We have received your file with the problem and hope to have a solution early next week- I suspect we are being a little too aggressive in out separation of the center channel. There are several parameters in the software that could cause this but I am confident of a solution. Better we find out now than when it is for sale in the shops!!

Have you tried the TSS (Two Speaker Surround) virtualizer yet?

Regards

Charlie

 

[jsrstereo]

Hello Charlie:

Well, I do want one (now!) - please let us know when the ISD will be available for purchase. In the meantime, could you possibly post the owner/operator manual here on the forum?

Thanks from John R

 

[chucky3042]

Hi John

Will inform you when the first batch is ready.

In regards to the instruction manual, you are now the second person this morning to try to stir me into action on this (the other one was far less polite!). Its currently at the 25% marker.

Regards

Charlie

Hello Charlie:

Well, I do want one (now!) - please let us know when the ISD will be available for purchase. In the meantime, could you possibly post the owner/operator manual here on the forum?

Thanks from John R

 

[chucky3042]

Hi All

In "myth busters" style I think we can safely state our claims on the performance of our INVOLVE surround master decoder is "Plausible". We are still waiting some other written reviews from trial subjects! I am told that they are very happy but let’s see what they commit in writing.

Please remember that whilst we decode INVOLVE, QS, RM, Q SOUND, DOLBY, DTS and stereo with great success a real advantage is that our surround/ stereo encode mix is indistinguishable from standard stereo. The major failure of QS was the surround/ stereo mix was compressed in image, INVOLVE does not have the problem.

I am also pleased to hear comments that INVOLVE sounded discrete. It is interesting to note that a significant proportion of discrete material available have issues in the recording. For example, on the famous Roy Orbison Black and White 5.1 DVD the female vocal backing group is produced in the right rear speaker when in fact on the video they are clearly located right front. When INVOLVE decodes this from the stereo down mix they are correctly located (with the audience clearly to the rear).

So we hope to shortly provide this forum with samples of:

1 INVOLVE INTELLIGENT ENCODER

2 TOTAL PERSPECTIVE CONTROLLER AND MINI SPEAKERS

With regard to TOTAL PERSPECTIVE we are strongly of the opinion that the current standard 5.1, 7.1, x.y. format with the use of the centre channel was great as a band aid but was a poor solution to the issue of central image drift when the listener is off centre. Right now all the crazies are pushing multi multi speaker systems using upwards of 20 speakers around the room. We believe this is further patching to a fundamentally flawed system with the resultant product not being commercially viable. Certainly in the home entertainment arena more than 5.1 is a very difficult sell. If my wife is representative of a majority of women then more than two is objectionable and 7 plus won’t be entertained!! Most importantly it does little if anything to solve the problem of the one hero seat.

Just 2 days ago I visited a HiFi shop and listened to a high end 7.1 surround system and I am constantly amazed as to how disappointed I am with the image BELOW the screen (TV in this case) and frankly little elsewhere. Worse still was the complete lack of the feeling of being in a natural surround environment.

 

[jsrstereo]

Hi Charlie:

I'm wondering what control features the ISD will have besides master volume that you can tell us about:

input balance?
front/rear output balance?
4-channel discrete pass-thru?

thanks from John R

 

[chucky3042]

Hi John

Our philosophy on our various technologies is to licence them to other manufacturers where ever possible. We will provide the basic "no frills" units for both demonstration and basic users. The existing INVOLVE surround master at present only has

Mode TSS
4/5.1 channel surround

ON/ OFF

Yep, I know its basic but we seriously did not want to add additional cost or complication

Talking privately to forum member" rustyandi" who has a unit for evaluation, suggested we should incorporate the controversial Sansui style "Blend and Synthesise" modes. I fully understand Ron's view in that it can be very useful when decoding some stereo material. My view (for what its worth) was that I did not like the additional complication and the fact that the user then has to play with switches for each different CD/ DVD they use. Having said that - its a very good idea.

Frankly it is one of the reasons we are introducing this product before commercial release to this forum- to get a mix of knowledgeable opinion.
I think what is needed is a true INVOLVE surround decoder preamplifier with ALL the facilities Ron and yourself has mentioned, knowing that it would sell at a higher price. We have actually started work on such a unit but it has been placed on the back burner due to other immediate projects and we are currently in final licence discussions with a very high end Amplifier / pre amplifier manufacture to be the first commercial pre amplifier to feature this technology.

When this licence is finalised I will pass the contact details to this forum.

Thanks for your thoughts!

Regards

Charlie

Hi Charlie:

I'm wondering what control features the ISD will have besides master volume that you can tell us about:

input balance?
front/rear output balance?
4-channel discrete pass-thru?

thanks from John R

 

[phydo]

Hi John

Our philosophy on our various technologies is to licence them to other manufacturers where ever possible. We will provide the basic "no frills" units for both demonstration and basic users. The existing INVOLVE surround master at present only has

Mode TSS
4/5.1 channel surround



ON/ OFF

Yep, I know its basic but we seriously did not want to add additional cost or complication

Talking privately to forum member" rustyandi" who has a unit for evaluation, suggested we should incorporate the controversial Sansui style "Blend and Synthesise" modes. I fully understand Ron's view in that it can be very useful when decoding some stereo material. My view (for what its worth) was that I did not like the additional complication and the fact that the user then has to play with switches for each different CD/ DVD they use. Having said that - its a very good idea.

Frankly it is one of the reasons we are introducing this product before commercial release to this forum- to get a mix of knowledgeable opinion.
I think what is needed is a true INVOLVE surround decoder preamplifier with ALL the facilities Ron and yourself has mentioned, knowing that it would sell at a higher price. We have actually started work on such a unit but it has been placed on the back burner due to other immediate projects and we are currently in final licence discussions with a very high end Amplifier / pre amplifier manufacture to be the first commercial pre amplifier to feature this technology.

When this licence is finalised I will pass the contact details to this forum.

Thanks for your thoughts!

Regards

Charlie

Charlie:

What types of inputs do you envision the final product having - RCA only; RCA, TOSLINK, COAXIAL, IEEE 1394; ISDN, etc. I understand one of your goals is to keep the unit cost as low as possible but the type of person that would be eager to purchase this decoder would be looking for higher performance connections than strictly RCA.

I like the preamp concept.

I am grateful that someone wants to bring this type of product to market.

Justin

 

[chucky3042]

Hi Justin

Actually I have a meeting on Monday to discuss specifics such as connectors with the Amplifier manufacturer, certainly RCA, COAXIAL and optical will be looked at. In many ways I am just as in the dark as you are!

Thanks for your support.

Regards

Charlie

Charlie:

What types of inputs do you envision the final product having - RCA only; RCA, TOSLINK, COAXIAL, IEEE 1394; ISDN, etc. I understand one of your goals is to keep the unit cost as low as possible but the type of person that would be eager to purchase this decoder would be looking for higher performance connections than strictly RCA.

I like the preamp concept.

I am grateful that someone wants to bring this type of product to market.

Justin

 

[phydo]

Hi Justin

Actually I have a meeting on Monday to discuss specifics such as connectors with the Amplifier manufacturer, certainly RCA, COAXIAL and optical will be looked at. In many ways I am just as in the dark as you are!

Thanks for your support.

Regards

Charlie

Charlie:

Thank you for the quick response. My thought is the connector(s) need to be able to pass high resolution audio signals such as SACD/DVD-A. A significant number of these recordings were stereo only and it would be nice to listen to them in QUAD.

Justin

 

[Bob Romano]

Hello All

Thank you Bob for taking the time for the initial evaluation, we will send you the INVOLVE intelligent ENCODER in 2 months time so you can evaluate the full encode / decode and the encode "stereo" mix.

With regards to the reported frontal pumping you observed in the 5.1 mode, we did not here it on the material that we chose in the development phase. We have received your file with the problem and hope to have a solution early next week- I suspect we are being a little too aggressive in out separation of the center channel. There are several parameters in the software that could cause this but I am confident of a solution. Better we find out now than when it is for sale in the shops!!

Have you tried the TSS (Two Speaker Surround) virtualizer yet?

Regards

Charlie

I have not tried it yet but I will check it out and report back.

 

[chucky3042]

Hi Bob

Remember you need to switch it fully off then change the mode switch. It is reprogrammed on reboot.

Regards

charlie

I have not tried it yet but I will check it out and report back.

 

[chucky3042]

Hi All

Here is some history for those who are nostalgic. As previously mentioned previously the first prototype of our INVOLVE Surround Master encoder was in fact 100% discrete analogue chip based hardware. Counting chips it used 67 Chips for just 2 channel to 5 channel decode, not including 4 channel and two channel surround. This photo was taken over 4 years ago.

Regards

Charlie

 

[siuol]

I came across Reality Technologies TSS (two speakers surround) and got a unit. I have been using it for a few months through electrostatic stereo speakers and I have not noticed any abnormal performance. Not being a tech buff, my opinion in simple terms, is that the different classical music instruments come out with their sound more distinguished while importantly the musical image is more present and just as coherent in the room. I am now leaving the entire comparison of using or not using the unit from recording to recording alone and I am enjoying the music with the TSS (two speaker surround) as it is unquestionably better.
For the small investment involved in getting your own, you should at least give the equipment a trial and you will have no regrets!