Retail Audio Disapointment

[4-earredwonder]

All valid points, keywhiz and 4-earredwonder. Most people either can't tell or don't care enough about differences in audio and video quality to upgrade (let alone the convenience factor).

I'm "guilty" of it too. The difference in OLED vs non-OLED is obvious with 2 TVs side-by-side but I opted for the non-OLED for my recent 4K upgrade as round my neck of the woods, it's about an extra $3K for the OLED option. OLED would have definitely been better but what I've got is good enough for me.

It's a spectrum of behaviour really, just like most things. I'm the only one I know with a 5.1 set-up. Everyone else ranges from watching stuff with just TV speakers, to soundbars with surround satellites, to soundbars with loads of speakers in them bouncing sound off the walls, to watching movies on their computers.

But in the final analysis, Tim, it's NOT what others do........it's what WE ENJOY. Trying to spread the audiophile/5.1/Atmos/OLED TV credo to 'non~believers' has always been a total waste of time. It's like giving GOOD ADVICE to people who never take it.

My priorities have always veered toward the niche markets and I'm comfortable with that. As I've said before, some people collect Stamps or Butterflies or stockpile antique guns [my dad did] and I have NO vested interest in any of those pursuits but I do respect those that do.

Thankfully we do have the world wide net at our disposal and almost ANYTHING our hearts desire can be attained with the click of a mouse. NO STORE EVER had all the records/tapes/ etc that we wanted or NO RETAIL STORE stocked every TV or audio component under the sun..........sometimes change IS good and we can decry how Amazon indeed destroyed MANY a business but with the internet, one can pick and choose, compare prices, read reviews [YELP!] and make informed decisions. And that is a GOOD thing!

 

[timothyemerson]

But in the final analysis, Tim, it's NOT what others do........it's what WE ENJOY. Trying to spread the audiophile/5.1/Atmos/OLED TV credo to 'non~believers' has always been a total waste of time. It's like giving GOOD ADVICE to people who never take it.

My priorities have always veered toward the niche markets and I'm comfortable with that. As I've said before, some people collect Stamps or Butterflies or stockpile antique guns [my dad did] and I have NO vested interest in any of those pursuits but I do respect those that do.

Thankfully we do have the world wide net at our disposal and almost ANYTHING our hearts desire can be attained with the click of a mouse. NO STORE EVER had all the records/tapes/ etc that we wanted or NO RETAIL STORE stocked every TV or audio component under the sun..........sometimes change IS good and we can decry how Amazon indeed destroyed MANY a business but with the internet, one can pick and choose, compare prices, read reviews [YELP!] and make informed decisions. And that is a GOOD thing!

Yep, all true. All comes down to entertainment basically, eh? What I like. Methinks so.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

But in the final analysis, Tim, it's NOT what others do........it's what WE ENJOY. Trying to spread the audiophile/5.1/Atmos/OLED TV credo to 'non~believers' has always been a total waste of time. It's like giving GOOD ADVICE to people who never take it.

My priorities have always veered toward the niche markets and I'm comfortable with that. As I've said before, some people collect Stamps or Butterflies or stockpile antique guns [my dad did] and I have NO vested interest in any of those pursuits but I do respect those that do.

Thankfully we do have the world wide net at our disposal and almost ANYTHING our hearts desire can be attained with the click of a mouse. NO STORE EVER had all the records/tapes/ etc that we wanted or NO RETAIL STORE stocked every TV or audio component under the sun..........sometimes change IS good and we can decry how Amazon indeed destroyed MANY a business but with the internet, one can pick and choose, compare prices, read reviews [YELP!] and make informed decisions. And that is a GOOD thing!

Ralphie, where can I get "Have Gun, Will Travel" on-line for free!

 

[4-earredwonder]

Ralphie, where can I get "Have Gun, Will Travel" on-line for free!

Don't know about a gun, partner but when you travel to work everyday something to keep your hominy grits and wholesome milk fresh from the cow's udder IN:

 

[MikeMonaco]

I'm so lucky that the Raleigh, NC area still has a few high quality audio shops (not big box stores). One is Audio Advice, a store I've been going to for years. Lots of great high-end gear, and everything set up for demo'ing in "rooms" just like you'd have at your house. They've got a room dedicated to Klipsh Heritage speakers -- resulted in me getting a pair of Heresy's, just in time to listen to the Jimi Hendrix Experience SACD release.

 

[Ranasakawa]

Heck, I did all of the above. Bought the high priced VHS tapes. Remember around 1980 when they decided that they were no longer going to sell tapes, they would only rent them? That didn't last long, however it did spur me on to buy a few in a hurry that I did not want to get right away.

Then those tapes had to be replaced with HiFi Audio VHS tapes, along with the player.
Then those VHS HiFi tapes had to be replaced with LaserDiscs
Then those LaserDiscs had to be replaced with the WIDESCREEN LaserDiscs
Then those LaserDiscs had to be replaced with Criterions and Deluxe Issue LD's, many at $100+
Then those LaserDiscs had to be replaced with AC-3 LaserDiscs, along with the player and the receiver
Then those LaserDiscs had to be replaced with DTS LaserDiscs, along with the player and the receiver
Then those LaserDiscs had to be replaced with DVD's
Then those DVD's had to be replaced with upgraded DVD's with better sound and bonus shit
Then those DVD's had to be replaced with BluRays

At this point, who needs the damn UHD 4K's!

agree !!!

Replacing cassettes to CD.....1000s later
Getting rid of vinyl in the 1990s
Upgrading analogue receiver CD player to a DVD player (and TV) and optical cable 5.1 amp at great cost
Upgrading to a HDMI receiver and BluRay player and speakers
Upgrading to a SACD compatible receiver and Oppo
I now need to get the whole lot stock and barrel again here in China. This time will be 2nd hand stuff

 

[proufo]

There are a couple of UHD players with 7.1 analog outputs. I would buy one right away if they supported SACD and DVD-A. That way my door would be open to get a UHD TV and discs. Maybe not the TV right now, as the HDR situation is crazy.

It is even possible that the chips in the players support those formats, but nobody cares.

 

[musicmemorabiliashoppellc]

My son in law has quite a nice home theater set up centered around Marantz/Oppo/Polk/Sony projector components. Recently he wanted to upgrade his front speakers & move his current fronts to the rears. So off we went to check out and audition some.

But first let me hop in the way back machine about 40 years. Back then there were several top quality audio shops to go to. They all had one thing in common: they always demoed whatever you we’re interested in with pristine top quality LP/cart/TT combo. Obviously something from a Sheffield Direct to Disc is going to show off speakers, whatever, better than say Alice Cooper would. Keep in mind I was a big AC fan back then. Just saying. BS&T Spinning Wheel also seemed to be a fave demo. Of course along with Manheim Steamroller.

Presently there is only one good AV store around: Independence Audio in Independence Missouri. Other than that it’s BB or NFM. My son in law got most of his stuff from the latter so that’s where we went off to.

Now remember he only wanted to audition single stereo pair of speakers with music not boom-o-phonic movies. The ONLY audio source for music NFM had was Spotify controlled by an LCD touch panel. Not even FM radio since the receiver’s were not hooked up to antennas. And then it was set default to a 5.1 configuration every time it was switched to another pair of speakers. That meant go from A>B & get hit with 5.1 then go into receiver menu adjust back to stereo than go through it again when you switch B>A. The Spotify choices seemed quite limited to Taylor Swift/ C&W/etc. No jazz or classical could be found.

I don’t expect a mainstream store to have a high end TT set up but they didn’t even have a single CD on hand to listen to. I have learned to bring some with me if I ever have to go there again. Bet even then it’s so hard to do good A/B testing it was just such a frustrating experience.
I’m not singling out NFM it just happens to be where I had this experience. I imagine this is norm elsewhere too. And I’m not against change I would just like it to be for the better. Then again it depends whose point of view is better: the knowledgeable shopper or the big volume retailer.

Thanks for letting me vent.

NFM?! LOL...not sure what the acronym stands for but for me is NOT F#_-ING MUCH!!

Now on to my story.....I've been trying to audition home theater systems here in the Clearwater Florida and nobody yes that's right NOBODY will either return my calls or if I find a small mom & pop store or go to Best Buy as a walk in they WILL NOT allow me to play any of my still sealed box sets that have multi channel sound and believe it or not MOST sales people especially in Mangolia Best Buy's high end department don't even know what OPPO is or even more shocking what SACD or Hi Text or DVD-A is.

And I'm looking for work right now and can't even get a job there!! Go figure

 

[musicmemorabiliashoppellc]

Right on, Doctor0.....I remember going to my old FYE store and the manager did relate stories of customers coming in day/date of release and actually paying $99 [+ sales tax] retail for a cropped VHS tape and leaving with maybe three or four...at that incredulous price.

I just purchased about 25 UHD 4K BD~Vs and paid between $7.99 and $11.99 for the privilege!

We're they new or used?

 

[Sonik Wiz]

Per 4-earredwonder:

But in the final analysis, Tim, it's NOT what others do........it's what WE ENJOY. Trying to spread the audiophile/5.1/Atmos/OLED TV credo to 'non~believers' has always been a total waste of time. It's like giving GOOD ADVICE to people who never take it.

My priorities have always veered toward the niche markets and I'm comfortable with that. As I've said before, some people collect Stamps or Butterflies or stockpile antique guns [my dad did] and I have NO vested interest in any of those pursuits but I do respect those that do

True that. About 15>16 years ago I bought a used music video LD primarily because the cover was so intriguing:

I mean anyone who can play a Rickenbacker Fireglo 620 with gloves on has got to be awesome, right?

From the first minute of watching I was hooked. So different but so familiar at the same time. I discovered J Pop & Rock & learned about anime & manga pretty quick. I was so taken by J music & videos I did everything I could to expose my friends to it. They all politely listened but none were hooked the way I was. Instead of trying to turn people on to anime, etc I decided I needed to find people that already knew how fun it was. Lucky for me the University of Kansas had an anime club & another independent local forum with meet ups, screenings & so on.

A recurring discussion among otaku buddies is whether you can make a fan of anime by careful exposure or if you can only discover them. I feel probably the latter. However just like surround sound it's good to put it out there because you never know who is a natural & neither do they.

Heck even my forum avatar is The Chief from Ghost in the Shell (slightly altered those are my glasses).

A word about the word otaku. Originally it meant a loose combination of hearth & home. It came to refer to people whose hobby interests kept them mostly at home as a compared to those with a more active outside social life. In America it is associated mostly with those having a strong passion for anime, manga, gaming & maybe cosplay. In Japan it refers to anyone with a super strong interest in any hobby or activity. There are stamp otaku, military otaku, idol otaku. I guess I am mostly a quad otaku.

 

[Sonik Wiz]

I'm so lucky that the Raleigh, NC area still has a few high quality audio shops (not big box stores). One is Audio Advice, a store I've been going to for years. Lots of great high-end gear, and everything set up for demo'ing in "rooms" just like you'd have at your house. They've got a room dedicated to Klipsh Heritage speakers -- resulted in me getting a pair of Heresy's, just in time to listen to the Jimi Hendrix Experience SACD release.

Speaking of Klipsch....
Whoulda thunk so soon after my original post I'd be going back to Nebraska Furniture Mart with my younger son in law to audition speakers. He had a 5.1 set up with older Klipsch speakers that he bought from a friend with the option for his friend to buy back if he missed them too much. And that's exactly what happened. He was going in with the mind set of buying at discount whatever Klipsch model that had recently been discontinued & replaced.

This time I went with some CD's, DVD-Audio, Blu-Rei High Res etc. In the listening room the salesman said he could not play any of those. What?! Not even a CD? He said he did not have a single disc player there those we're in the video sales section. I scanned the room & saw he was right. Along the entire length of one wall nothing but receivers, headphone amps, a Sony DSD box. He said he could play digital files off a cell phone through USB. So that might be a way to go. At least I understood the situation better.

So we we're back to Spotify. The really good news is that the new Klipsch my SiL really wanted was on sale & in stock, the RFP-8000.

For sale at Crutchfield for $600 each. At NFM $350 each. Not only that they sounded better than I expected with more deep bass & a little bit sizzely high end but again this was MP3 in a store environment. I figured no matter how good they sounded at the store they would sound better at home. It was a quick sale.

So certainly a much better experience.

 

[kfbkfb]

https://stores.bestbuy.com/ks/overland-park/9301-quivira-rd-39.html
^^^
"Magnolia Home Theater" section, they have several demo rooms.

(I usually buy Sony, Pioneer, Polk and Funai A/V products, so a regular
Best Buy is fine for me).

Kirk Bayne

 

[4-earredwonder]

We're they new or used?

If you're referring to my purchase of 25 UHD 4K discs ..... all were brand new, sealed.

 

[Sonik Wiz]

https://stores.bestbuy.com/ks/overland-park/9301-quivira-rd-39.html
^^^
"Magnolia Home Theater" section, they have several demo rooms.

(I usually buy Sony, Pioneer, Polk and Funai A/V products, so a regular
Best Buy is fine for me).

Kirk Bayne

Very familiar with BB on Quivira. Except for my first Blu-Rei player I haven't bought much AV stuff there. Spent $$ on other stuff. Also it's been at least 5 years that I listened to anything audio there. Everything seemed optimized for HT, that is a lot of boom and tizz. Next time in I'll swoop through the Magnolia area & see how it is now days.

Kirk, based on your posts I think we must live pretty close to each other. I'm in North East Johnson County, Roeland Park. Where are you?

 

[Marplot]

Late to the game, paid $80 for Apocalypse Now on VHS rental when we melted it on a space heater in '86
Here is an interesting chart that also helps to explain slow 4k adoption ... how many kids have the distance and screen size for it to even make a difference ? Hell I don't.

 

[Sonik Wiz]

View attachment 38450
Late to the game, paid $80 for Apocalypse Now on VHS rental when we melted it on a space heater in '86
Here is an interesting chart that also helps to explain slow 4k adoption ... how many kids have the distance and screen size for it to even make a difference ? Hell I don't.

That's a good chart thanks. In ancient days of VHS & Kloss Videobeam the question was how far back do you have to sit so the picture quality is acceptable. Now it is how big/how close to realize the high res quality of the video.

I have a 1080p Panasonic 8000 on a DIY 8' screen. Optimum position for surround sound puts me 9' from screen. Casual watching on the couch puts me about 15' from screen. Besides the big $$ for a 4k projector I would have to improve my screen, paint my ceiling black & make other changes. So I think 1080 video & 7.1 surround sound is the sweet spot for me. There's no 4k or Dolby Atmos in my foreseeable future. Tho I'll never say never.

Looking forward to my new toy of the SM V2 esp since so much I listen to is stereo in origin.

 

[kfbkfb]

I live where almost everywhere, there's Truman this, Truman that etc.

I haven't visited Independence Audio for some time.

Best Buy isn't currently stocking Pioneer receivers (I try to support
Pioneer since they carried the LaserDisc system for many, many years),
although I did recently buy 8 Polk T15s from them.

One item regarding 4K/UHD systems - HDR is probably the most
noticeable improvement in Home Theater systems and it's exclusive to
4K/UHD (I wish they would add HDR to regular Blu-ray).

Kirk Bayne

 

[4-earredwonder]

I live where almost everywhere, there's Truman this, Truman that etc.

I haven't visited Independence Audio for some time.

Best Buy isn't currently stocking Pioneer receivers (I try to support
Pioneer since they carried the LaserDisc system for many, many years),
although I did recently buy 8 Polk T15s from them.

One item regarding 4K/UHD systems - HDR is probably the most
noticeable improvement in Home Theater systems and it's exclusive to
4K/UHD (I wish they would add HDR to regular Blu-ray).

Kirk Bayne

If your player and UHD 4K TV support Dolby Vision as well, in conjunction with HDR 10 I notice the difference on almost every UHD 4K movie I watch on my LG OLED TV. A lot of 1080p Blu Ray Discs pale in comparison. And with the prices of UHD 4K movies coming way down in price........it pays to buy the 4K version [which comes with a 1080p BD~V AS WELL].

 

[J. PUPSTER]

That's a good chart thanks. In ancient days of VHS & Kloss Videobeam the question was how far back do you have to sit so the picture quality is acceptable. Now it is how big/how close to realize the high res quality of the video.

I have a 1080p Panasonic 8000 on a DIY 8' screen. Optimum position for surround sound puts me 9' from screen. Casual watching on the couch puts me about 15' from screen. Besides the big $$ for a 4k projector I would have to improve my screen, paint my ceiling black & make other changes. So I think 1080 video & 7.1 surround sound is the sweet spot for me. There's no 4k or Dolby Atmos in my foreseeable future. Tho I'll never say never.

Looking forward to my new toy of the SM V2 esp since so much I listen to is stereo in origin.

By the time I'm ready to upgrade my 1080P Samsung to a 4K; I'm sure 8K will be well entrenched in the market

 

[4-earredwonder]

By the time I'm ready to upgrade my 1080P Samsung to a 4K; I'm sure 8K will be well entrenched in the market

At the godawful snail's pace they're releasing UHD 4K titles .... and a lot of them are of questionable ilk.....doubtful the majors will even bother to release in 8K. And as far as streaming goes, the bandwidth would have to vastly improve to even consider streaming in that resolution.