Retail Audio Disapointment

[JonUrban]

Heck, I did all of the above. Bought the high priced VHS tapes. Remember around 1980 when they decided that they were no longer going to sell tapes, they would only rent them? That didn't last long, however it did spur me on to buy a few in a hurry that I did not want to get right away.

Then those tapes had to be replaced with HiFi Audio VHS tapes, along with the player.
Then those VHS HiFi tapes had to be replaced with LaserDiscs
Then those LaserDiscs had to be replaced with the WIDESCREEN LaserDiscs
Then those LaserDiscs had to be replaced with Criterions and Deluxe Issue LD's, many at $100+
Then those LaserDiscs had to be replaced with AC-3 LaserDiscs, along with the player and the receiver
Then those LaserDiscs had to be replaced with DTS LaserDiscs, along with the player and the receiver
Then those LaserDiscs had to be replaced with DVD's
Then those DVD's had to be replaced with upgraded DVD's with better sound and bonus shit
Then those DVD's had to be replaced with BluRays

At this point, who needs the damn UHD 4K's!

 

[4-earredwonder]

My guess is 'yes' (albeit for different reasons). I don't think the upgrade in picture quality is great enough for most people to notice or care.

I disagree, KEYWHIZ. My LG OLED is SO revealing, with Dolby Vision/HDR 10 UHD 4K discs, I can plainly see the uptick in quality between 1080p and 4K. Especially the NATIVE 4K discs [as opposed to the upscaled ones].

A case in point: the new UHD 4K Native 2001: A Space Odyssey is simply astonishing. Reminded me of its 70mm maiden voyage in theaters. And a lot of the 3D BD~Vs look like 4K ........

Now if I could only find a brilliant UHD 4K/3D projector........my 2K Meridian/JVC projector crapped out!

 

[4-earredwonder]

Heck, I did all of the above. Bought the high priced VHS tapes. Remember around 1980 when they decided that they were no longer going to sell tapes, they would only rent them? That didn't last long, however it did spur me on to buy a few in a hurry that I did not want to get right away.

Then those tapes had to be replaced with HiFi Audio VHS tapes, along with the player.
Then those VHS HiFi tapes had to be replaced with LaserDiscs
Then those LaserDiscs had to be replaced with the WIDESCREEN LaserDiscs
Then those LaserDiscs had to be replaced with Criterions and Deluxe Issue LD's, many at $100+
Then those LaserDiscs had to be replaced with AC-3 LaserDiscs, along with the player and the receiver
Then those LaserDiscs had to be replaced with DTS LaserDiscs, along with the player and the receiver
Then those LaserDiscs had to be replaced with DVD's
Then those DVD's had to be replaced with upgraded DVD's with better sound and bonus shit
Then those DVD's had to be replaced with BluRays

At this point, who needs the damn UHD 4K's!

ME, ME, ME!!!!!! Jon

And yeah, Jon, all the pain you suffered with those inferior VHS/BETA/Hi 8/LASERDISC/DVD formats ..... I suffered as well! Which is why I openly embrace UHD 4K! Especially when they're as low as $7.99...the price of a stinkin' RBCD!or as I call 'em...future coasters

 

[jimfisheye]

I don't really think that much has changed though. I remember most people back in the day listened to radio and maybe made homemade cassettes off the radio on their boombox. It was like me and 1 or 2 other friends who would actually buy albums and be interested in better fidelity. The radio has simply turned into sharing mp3s or streaming mp3 quality audio. Youtube is great for previewing/discovering music, concerts, and movies. If you're among the average, you're done there. If you're crazy like me, you run out and buy (or download in HD - which I prefer) the ones that are special to you.

Full Compass is located just outside Madison here. They have demo rooms and are happy to hook up speakers and such. So I've got that nearby which is nice. Stay out of Worst Purchase! Assume anything they sell is a facsimile or scam.

 

[key_wiz]

I disagree, KEYWHIZ. My LG OLED is SO revealing, with Dolby Vision/HDR 10 UHD 4K discs, I can plainly see the uptick in quality between 1080p and 4K. Especially the NATIVE 4K discs [as opposed to the upscaled ones].

A case in point: the new UHD 4K Native 2001: A Space Odyssey is simply astonishing. Reminded me of its 70mm maiden voyage in theaters. And a lot of the 3D BD~Vs look like 4K ........

Now if I could only find a brilliant UHD 4K/3D projector........my 2K Meridian/JVC projector crapped out!

I'm not saying the increase in quality doesn't exist. just saying I don't think most people care about that latest uptick in quality. Going from standard definition to HiDef? Yes, they noticed that and really liked it. Going up from there? Most don't notice it or don't care enough about it for it to be something they want to spend a lot of time or money worrying about.

On a related note, I often question when is it TOO much picture quality? Yeah, 4K looks amazing when watching one of the nature shows on a 75" inch OLED screen. But when I find myself more focused on how many wrinkles and blemishes are present on an actress's face than I am on the words coming out of her mouth? Sometimes so much 'hi def' can actually be a bit distracting!

 

[4-earredwonder]

I'm just saying I don't think most people care about that uptick in quality. Going from standard definition to HiDef? Yes, they noticed that. Going up from there? Most don't notice it or don't care.

II suppose the same can be said for the uptick in quality from lossy to lossless ..... MOST people just don't care .... but like UHD 4K ..... Glad the few that do appreciate the difference have it! It just seems that QUALITY, itself, is becoming more of a niche market. Probably always was, as jimfisheye asserts, but those who really do care don't mind the 'inconvenience.'

 

[key_wiz]

II suppose the same can be said for the uptick in quality from lossy to lossless ..... MOST people just don't care .... but like UHD 4K ..... Glad the few that do appreciate the difference have it! It just seems that QUALITY, itself, is becoming more of a niche market. Probably always was, as jimfisheye asserts, but those who really do care don't mind the 'inconvenience.'

Oh definitely audiophile quality, and in this case videophile quality, has always been a niche.

It should be noted, however that, for whatever reason, 4K has pretty much become the standard for TV sets regardless of the lack of content. I'm guessing it must not have cost the manufactures much more to start making the set in 4K so it was easy to flood the market with them?

As far as content goes? I actually expect that as 4K becomes more and more the standard for TV sets, those that produce the TV shows and movies will start releasing their product in the format more. Does it really cost them anything more to release the latest Blu-ray movie in 4K than it does in 1080p? Probably not much. It seems most new releases are coming out in 4K now? Streaming is another issue as that concerns bandwidth. And I doubt if we will ever see 4K over-the-air broadcasts.

But the 4K releases do cost about 5 bucks more? So that remains to be seen how many people care enough to pay the extra money for a boost in quality over a version they already think looks great.

 

[4-earredwonder]

Oh definitely audiophile quality, and in this case videophile quality, has always been a niche.

It should be noted, however that, for whatever reason, 4K has pretty much become the standard for TV sets regardless of the lack of content. I'm guessing it must not have cost the manufactures much more to start making the set in 4K so it was easy to flood the market with them?

As far as content goes? I actually expect that as 4K becomes more and more the standard for TV sets, those that produce the TV shows and movies will start releasing their product in the format more. Does it really cost them anything more to release the latest Blu-ray movie in 4K than it does in 1080p? Probably not much. It seems most new releases are coming out in 4K now? Streaming is another issue as that concerns bandwidth. And I doubt if we will ever see 4K over-the-air broadcasts.

But the 4K releases do cost about 5 bucks more? So that remains to be seen how many people care enough to pay the extra money for a boost in quality over a version they already think looks great.

If you want a real chuckle, keywhiz, the Deep Discount website is still listing tons of newly minted DVDs for sale and some of them are priced higher than their BD~V counterparts. I was reading a review of the Criterion 40 disc BD~V release of Swedish Director Ingmar Bergman's Collection over at Amazon and in the year 2018, one 'reviewer' wanted to know why it wasn't available in DVD. Now if that reviewer only invested about $100 or less in a Blu Ray player, it would not only play BD~V discs in 1080 but UPSAMPLE the DVDs as well...the point being, people are STILL buying and WATCHING DVDs in 2019!

And we're talking UHD 4K ........ probably a TRULY alien format to 99% of the world's population.

 

[key_wiz]

If you want a real chuckle, keywhiz, the Deep Discount website is still listing tons of newly minted DVDs for sale and some of them are priced higher than their BD~V counterparts. I was reading a review of the Criterion 40 disc BD~V release of Swedish Director Ingmar Bergman's Collection over at Amazon and in the year 2018, one 'reviewer' wanted to know why it wasn't available in DVD. Now if that reviewer only invested about $100 or less in a Blu Ray player, it would not only play BD~V discs in 1080 but UPSAMPLE the DVDs as well...the point being, people are STILL buying and WATCHING DVDs in 2019!

And we're talking UHD 4K ........ probably a TRULY alien format to 99% of the world's population.

Yep. Until their DVD players die, they see no reason to get a new one. I know a lot of people like that. I know a lot of people who would never have gotten DVD players if they could still buy/rent VHS tapes.

Tons of people bitched about being 'forced' to get rid of their CRT sets by the evil gummit. Many, many would still have them if not essentially forced to get rid of them and flatscreens becoming so cheap.

But with so many of the sets being sold now 4K and everything moving to streaming, we probably will all eventually make the shift over to 4K, as long as the streal oming services provide it.

On a related note, I stopped by my local Best Buy the other day to buy a new 4K FireStick (some of us DO want the 'good stuff') and I noticed their CD section was gone except for a dump-bin of discs they were selling off for $5.99. I came home and mentioned this to my wife and also told her that their DVD/Blu Ray section was getting significantly smaller as well. Her reply was "I'm surprised they still have those!"

She's right. We pretty much stream all our video content these days.

Oh, and BTW, I don't own a 4K disc player and have no intention of buying one. (I was thinking about one of those Sony 800 universal players but after reading they won't play burnt DVD-As, I don't want one. I'll stick with my Yamaha that plays everything but 4K) We rarely ever play disc movies and the few we do own/play I'm fine watching on "regular" Hi-Def Blu Ray.

 

[The56Kid]

It can't. People today don't want big speakers with a receiver unless there's a TV, and even that's getting more rare. Hard to believe the number of young people who only watch on a tablet (or phone) and have no need for a TV/Receiver/Speakers. Walk around a modern college campus today and ask the students how many CD's or DVD/BluRays they have. Zero would be the operative number.

Buy a movie? Buy an Album? Why?

We're dinosaurs.

(But that's not who we are, a pebble and a star and a soul)

You nailed it, Jon. It's crazy how many young people could care less about the things QQ members have come to consider the norm: large hi def monitors & sound systems that can properly reproduce music. They just don't care how good a movie looks or an incredible recording sounds.

I have two kids in their 20s and neither has spent more than few minutes enjoying my basement home theater since I first put it together 17 years ago. Visited my son's off campus apartment when he was in college 5 years ago and he and his roommate had a small component system with the speakers sitting on the floor, side-by-side. They didn't care about stereo imaging or proper separation.

Unfortunately, it's not just the youngsters. Ran into an old college roommate a few months ago. In the day, we liked nothing better than listening to LPs on our more than adequate TT/Receiver/Speaker sound system. All our friends had them. Now, the only 'sound system' in his house is a small Bose Wave system that supports CDs. Another friend recently moved and his Yamaha/Paradigm system is in storage and his music listening is done thru a soundbar!

This T-rex will gladly stay in Jurassic Park if the alternative is the substandard video and/or audio reproduction enjoyed by today's masses!

 

[4-earredwonder]

You nailed it, Jon. It's crazy how many young people could care less about the things QQ members have come to consider the norm: large hi def monitors & sound systems that can properly reproduce music. They just don't care how good a movie looks or an incredible recording sounds.

I have two kids in their 20s and neither has spent more than few minutes enjoying my basement home theater since I first put it together 17 years ago. Visited my son's off campus apartment when he was in college 5 years ago and he and his roommate had a small component system with the speakers sitting on the floor, side-by-side. They didn't care about stereo imaging or proper separation.

Unfortunately, it's not just the youngsters. Ran into an old college roommate a few months ago. In the day, we liked nothing better than listening to LPs on our more than adequate TT/Receiver/Speaker sound system. All our friends had them. Now, the only 'sound system' in his house is a small Bose Wave system that supports CDs. Another friend recently moved and his Yamaha/Paradigm system is in storage and his music listening is done thru a soundbar!

This T-rex will gladly stay in Jurassic Park if the alternative is the substandard video and/or audio reproduction enjoyed by today's masses!

Maybe we should change the name of this site to Jurassic World?

 

[JonUrban]

Maybe we should change the name of this site to Jurassic World?

Official QQ Soundtrack: "Antiquasauria"

 

[TVB]

Sorry to say that the only place you can see high end stereo equipment in Colorado are the Mcintosh dealers. They are few and far between and prices are so high, only the wealthy need apply. The last "real" stereo dealer near me was in a mall in the 80's. I used to go there to audition JBL L112's (which I couldn't afford then, but I have em now -along with 4 other sets of jbl monitors from that time period and before). I miss these shops like crazy. AND, with all of the systems I have set up using high end equipment from the 70's and 80's (7 complete sytems-2 quad & 5 high end stereo), neither one of my teenage boys is interested in listening to them. They listen via headphones from phones and they play video games. AND, I have a HUGE collection of laserdiscs and laserdisc players (including a pioneer cld 99 I got for $49 from a pawn shop because it didnt play dvds). I just bought 3 laserdiscs for $1 each (including terminator 2) that play perfectly. I have 2 of the last Sony XBR widescreen hdtv crt tv's that were made. I use these for laserdiscs and SVHS tape. If I would have had these monitors before dvd came out, I might not have made the switch to dvd at all because they are that good when using an analogue source. Anyway, I do lament the re-purchase dilemma that Jon is talking about...records to cds and laserdisc to dvd. I very seldom listen to cd's and enjoy vinyl, reel and cassette tape more if I'm going to listen in stereo. If I had to do it all over, I would have skipped dvd's and cd's. Just think, I would have had thousands to spend on surround discs and equipment. I'm glad I didn't get into 3d tv 's and discs, nor can I ascribe to repurchasing blu rays on 4k discs. My switch to bluray wasn't painful because most came from pawn shops at 3 for $10. But, I do believe those days are over. Pawn shops just aren't getting any new bluray titles. This tells me that folks just aren't buying blurays anymore. The last bluray movies I have purchased have come on black friday's. I buy blurays and all surround formats because I've always liked physical media and I don't see it changing any time soon.

 

[timothyemerson]

Great thread. Yeah, I've found I know more than the sales people in appliance stores but that has it's ups (can't pull one over on me with some fancy words) and downs (can't demo the answer to a tricky question).

If I worked in an appliance store , I'd have a few discs/files of different formats/regions and run them on all new products. A checklist would help you keep track of everything and then you could display this near the product/on the website so customers can see "Hey, this plays HDCDs" or "This player can handle Region A and B BDs", etc. You'd soon hopefully get a rep around town as the go-to guy.

As Jon said, hard to believe that people can watch something on their non-huge-TV/crappy-speakered device and derive enjoyment from it. Mind you, I had a 14" TV that I used to sit really close to when I was a kid and that did the job for a while. Then I saw bigger ones in stores and was all, "Wow, I'd better start saving". I guess, like most things, it's either in you or not. Having decent stores/knowledgeable staff certainly helps get people interested though. If it's not advertised, people just don't know or care cos let's face it, they're all luxury items.

 

[milt]

Sorry to say that the only place you can see high end stereo equipment in Colorado are the Mcintosh dealers. They are few and far between and prices are so high, only the wealthy need apply. The last "real" stereo dealer near me was in a mall in the 80's. I used to go there to audition JBL L112's (which I couldn't afford then, but I have em now -along with 4 other sets of jbl monitors from that time period and before). I miss these shops like crazy. AND, with all of the systems I have set up using high end equipment from the 70's and 80's (7 complete sytems-2 quad & 5 high end stereo), neither one of my teenage boys is interested in listening to them. They listen via headphones from phones and they play video games. AND, I have a HUGE collection of laserdiscs and laserdisc players (including a pioneer cld 99 I got for $49 from a pawn shop because it didnt play dvds). I just bought 3 laserdiscs for $1 each (including terminator 2) that play perfectly. I have 2 of the last Sony XBR widescreen hdtv crt tv's that were made. I use these for laserdiscs and SVHS tape. If I would have had these monitors before dvd came out, I might not have made the switch to dvd at all because they are that good when using an analogue source. Anyway, I do lament the re-purchase dilemma that Jon is talking about...records to cds and laserdisc to dvd. I very seldom listen to cd's and enjoy vinyl, reel and cassette tape more if I'm going to listen in stereo. If I had to do it all over, I would have skipped dvd's and cd's. Just think, I would have had thousands to spend on surround discs and equipment. I'm glad I didn't get into 3d tv 's and discs, nor can I ascribe to repurchasing blu rays on 4k discs. My switch to bluray wasn't painful because most came from pawn shops at 3 for $10. But, I do believe those days are over. Pawn shops just aren't getting any new bluray titles. This tells me that folks just aren't buying blurays anymore. The last bluray movies I have purchased have come on black friday's. I buy blurays and all surround formats because I've always liked physical media and I don't see it changing any time soon.

Maybe you need to use Yelp. I know my brother has a favorite high-end store there and he has mentioned a few others.

To the OP, what is NFM?

 

[Sonik Wiz]

Maybe you need to use Yelp. I know my brother has a favorite high-end store there and he has mentioned a few others.

To the OP, what is NFM?

Sorry I thought it was a well known abbreviation. Nebraska Furniture Mart. As in nfm.com

 

[Circular Vibes]

NFM = Nebraska Furniture Mart?

 

[milt]

Thanks Wiz
Not in this part of the US.
I Googled NFM & found Nebraska Furniture Mart.
Not to judge a book by it's name but...

 

[~dave~~wave~]

Sorry I thought it was a well known abbreviation. Nebraska Furniture Mart. As in nfm.com

I knew that, being from Nebraska.

Rose Blumkin, affectionately known as Mrs B, had the first electric scooter for the elderly i ever knew of, so she could cruise the floor of her store.
Back in the 80s, everybody I knew from Omaha bought their carpet from her.
Later, Warren Buffet bought the business.

 

[timothyemerson]

All valid points, keywhiz and 4-earredwonder. Most people either can't tell or don't care enough about differences in audio and video quality to upgrade (let alone the convenience factor).

I'm "guilty" of it too. The difference in OLED vs non-OLED is obvious with 2 TVs side-by-side but I opted for the non-OLED for my recent 4K upgrade as round my neck of the woods, it's about an extra $3K for the OLED option. OLED would have definitely been better but what I've got is good enough for me.

It's a spectrum of behaviour really, just like most things. I'm the only one I know with a 5.1 set-up. Everyone else ranges from watching stuff with just TV speakers, to soundbars with surround satellites, to soundbars with loads of speakers in them bouncing sound off the walls, to watching movies on their computers.