HiRez Poll Return to Forever - MUSICMAGIC [SACD]

[leevitalone1]

Or possibly Stan's piccolo electric bass, which is tuned up an octave, to the same pitch as the bottom four strings of a guitar.

and the 'Female Instrument"

 

[DuncanS]

I really like this album, again its one I hadn't heard before (at least I don't remember hearing it!).

Its a 10 for the music

10 for the sound quality

10 for the Quad mix

Great and informative liner notes.

A 10.

 

[leevitalone1]

I really like this album, again its one I hadn't heard before (at least I don't remember hearing it!).

Its a 10 for the music

10 for the sound quality

10 for the Quad mix

Great and informative liner notes.

A 10.

Once again, RTF is the music all the hot bands of the 70's were listening to. Al Dimeola was a prodigy, fresh out of Berkley, now every member is a professor of music. If you like this, get the BD of the show in Montreux, (DTS MA) it is kick ass! And each member has solo work, especially Al Dimeola if you like a guitar then here is a master. And Stanley Clark any of his other stuff is great! I do serious listen-no distractions, serious man cave time, with supportive relaxing items to assist- my time.


yes I know it's not RTF!

 

[peterzach]

Like the PPL which is my first DV disk that I recently added to my surround pile and I only got this title because of what some others here were saying about it and fact that it could be a rare disk in the future.
This is not my type of music but I will give it a 10 again because of the fidelity and on the basis of surround alone it has some interesting choices of placement of instruments and is this ever a discreet clean sounding recording.
I don't think this will get a lot of spins by me but I am happy to have had the chance now to hear this and I do appreciate the musicianship going on here, these are some great musicians and I do agree with some others comments about vocals and lyrics being cringe worthy but so are some simple pop songs from some of my favorite artists.
DV top marks for getting this out of the Sony vaults, for that you get a 10 from me.

 

[leevitalone1]

Like the PPL which is my first DV disk that I recently added to my surround pile and I only got this title because of what some others here were saying about it and fact that it could be a rare disk in the future.
This is not my type of music but I will give it a 10 again because of the fidelity and on the basis of surround alone it has some interesting choices of placement of instruments and is this ever a discreet clean sounding recording.
I don't think this will get a lot of spins by me but I am happy to have had the chance now to hear this and I do appreciate the musicianship going on here, these are some great musicians and I do agree with some others comments about vocals and lyrics being cringe worthy but so are some simple pop songs from some of my favorite artists.
DV top marks for getting this out of the Sony vaults, for that you get a 10 from me.

In the mid 70's I began to get tired of rock music. I would listen and expect more from the lead instrument. I like Led Zep, and other Rock bands but began to see the limits of Jimmy Page, and others it suddenly occurred to me that I wanted more. Then , one day my friend introduced me to RTF. I immediately took to it and understood now what I was craving from music. I think the ability to understand music theory and having the ability to play an instrument is crucial in understanding the progressive nature of the musicians knowledge of music.
I have this in me. I can pick up any music instrument and play a simple tune. My main instrument was drums, but have been educated in woodwinds, sax, clarinet , etc.
Once one can grasp the concept, it opens up! and I, for one was hooked immediately, and continue to enjoy it. One thing I have since discovered is how the same tune can be different, just by concentrating on one instrument. This is how I was taught to appreciate progressive music. But, the whole thing changes and every time I hear the tune it sounds better!
This album is 70's era, has no influence like rock music and is completely original. Like all the stuff RTF put out.
Professors of music, that they are, how many rock artists can say that?

 

[bgf1973]

Received today. Really one of The best quad mix

 

[blue.monk]

Despite being familiar with most of Chick Corea’s 70’s output, this one had managed to elude me all these years. I dig it, although I don’t find the material quite as strong as some of his, or RTF’s, other titles from the decade. I appreciate the eclectic mix of styles, and the ensemble is outstanding with some delightfully adventurous horn arrangements. The quad mix places bass in rear left and drums rear right. This has taken me a moment to get used to each time I’ve play it. The drum choice is particularly curious. I can understand confining the drums to a single channel for 4- and 8-track recordings where drums were often only allotted one track. But that is not the case with this recording. The drums were recorded across several tracks (as made evident by the stereo mix). Odd that they would choose to reduce their spatial impact for the multichannel. Regardless there is a lot to enjoy about the mix, with many colorful elements popping in and out from all four channels throughout every tune. All in all I’m happy to finally have this title in my collection and a big thank you to Vocalion for this terrific SACD reissue campaign. I voted 8.

 

[rtbluray]

Giving this release a '9':

Content - 3
Surround Mix - 2
Fidelity - 3
High-Res Disc - 1

I didn't care for many of the mixing decisions, but I enjoyed the music, and the fidelity was top-notch.
I'm so glad that Audio Fidelity's stereo SACD was not the final word on this album.

 

[Ninecats]

Chick Corea is a great pianist, I especially like his playing in the avant-garde group Circle and their "Paris Concert" album, I also have every RTF album but this is the first time I hear them in surround. And what a treat, absolutely stunning fidelity, the crazy tunes really open up and become more "naturally sounding" if there is such a thing in here. Really, a 10 for this.

 

[van1]

I'm not ready to rate this yet, having only listened to it once, but I wanted to say that I really agree with sjcorne's analysis of this album. I think the only thing it's guilty of is not sounding like Romantic Warrior - what I love about it is exactly what sjcorne pointed out, that if you were describing the sound, you'd have to use a combination of a whole bunch of other bands to do it. One of my first thoughts listening to this album today in quad was "I don't know how you couldn't call this album a musical achievement" - I can understand being disappointed that it doesn't sound like Romantic Warrior, but there are so many quieter more nuanced bits on this album that would have been totally obliterated by the hi-octane riffing of the Romantic Warrior lineup. It's not to say one is better and one is worse, just that they're both different and I'm glad that they both exist.

This has the same right rear drums/left rear bass layout as the Tower of Power disc, but I think it works better than ToP for some reason - maybe because in a band like this the drums don't need to dominate the mix the same way they do in a funk or R&B band. As sjcorne and dave-wave noted, there's tons of bass in the rear speakers - it really made me wish I had a setup that featured four enormous floorstanding speakers, that's for sure. It's interesting actually, there seem to be a few of these '76/'77 era Columbia quads with no quad remix engineer credited that have the same right rear drums/left rear bass type of quad mix - this and Tower of Power are two, and Fredblue tells me that the Miracles 'Love Crazy' is another. I wonder if the same mysterious engineer did them all, because aside from Sly and the Family Stone's Greatest Hits, I can't think of many (or any) other quad mixes they put out between '72 and '75 that use that type of mixing style.

The biggest revalation for me on the first listen of this disc surprisingly was the (oft-maligned) vocals. Some of the lyrics are a bit cringeworthy, but I was struck by just how lifelike the timbre(4) of Gayle Moran's voice was on the opening track was, almost enough to make your armhair stand up. I was also really taken with how much multitracked vocals there are - people think of this album as being the one where they had a singer, but some real thought was put in to the execution of the vocals (especially the harmonised chorus parts) and I think it only really shows in the quad mix when things are panned to all four speakers.

I think 'weird' is one of the best words to describe this album, but it's weird in the best way. I was a child of the 80s, where music more often than not was very strict 3 minute verse/chorus/verse type stuff, so discovering albums like this as a teenager in the 90s, i felt like Alice going through the looking glass - 10 minute songs! crazy structures! weird synthesizers! long solos!

I haven't voted on this one yet, only having listened to it once, but it will be at least a 9 from me. The only reason I could see not giving it a 10 is that there are albums I like more (what would I give them, 11?) and the drums/bass in the rear mixing style isn't my favourite. I was bowled over by how good the disc sounds though, absolute reference quality in my opinion. It's a travesty that this quad mix (and so many others) have only been heard in discrete form on 8-track tape, which has less than half the frequency response of this new SACD.

Firstly I would really like to thank Vocalion for this VERY unexpected surprise, as I was very disappointed when the AF disc was announced without QUAD as stereo only. Sadly after much thought (as I really wanted this, it was one of the few RTF albums I never owned) I ended up declining purchase because of the lack of QUAD, AF's own fault as they had spolt me with their plethora of QUAD releases and anything less just - wouldn't - do. :howl Then a year later lo and behold Vocalion comes along and rights our QUADly injustice and rewards us the much desired Quadraphonic release of RTF Musicmagic Great fidelity, fun mix and I even like the vocals (but would be absolutely stoked if we could have a multi-ch release of Romantic Warrior, yeah, that's the ticket!) Really glad we got this one.

Steelydave, did you write the liner notes for this release?

Loving the disc and also the informative liner notes. Do you have any info as to why 'Romantic Warrior', their first Columbia album was not given the quad treatment?

 

[Rickko]

On occasion, I will listen to a jazz fusion album. What really intrigued me on this release was the quadraphonic mix.

Return to Forever used an orchestral approach of multiple instruments that should fit well within quad 4.0. The discreetness of the mix results in extensive movement of instrumentation amongst channels notably the horn section. However, I am not a fan of stationing bass and drums in the rear channels. On pop/rock albums, I find it annoying at best. However, this jazz fusion mix works relatively well with bass in rear left and drums in rear right. From my perspective, it works based on the original engineering that captures both instruments in great detail. Both bass and drums play off each other like lead instruments with superb playing from Stanley Clarke (bass) and Gerry Brown (drums). And overall, the mix presents a well balanced surround sound.

The recorded material is interesting but the most outstanding feature is the exceptional fidelity. As per the liner notes, it was remastered from the original master tapes and the audio sounds gorgeous. A worthy 4.0 release based on the audio fidelity alone.

 

[fredblue]

I'm not ready to rate this yet, having only listened to it once, but I wanted to say that I really agree with sjcorne's analysis of this album. I think the only thing it's guilty of is not sounding like Romantic Warrior - what I love about it is exactly what sjcorne pointed out, that if you were describing the sound, you'd have to use a combination of a whole bunch of other bands to do it. One of my first thoughts listening to this album today in quad was "I don't know how you couldn't call this album a musical achievement" - I can understand being disappointed that it doesn't sound like Romantic Warrior, but there are so many quieter more nuanced bits on this album that would have been totally obliterated by the hi-octane riffing of the Romantic Warrior lineup. It's not to say one is better and one is worse, just that they're both different and I'm glad that they both exist.

This has the same right rear drums/left rear bass layout as the Tower of Power disc, but I think it works better than ToP for some reason - maybe because in a band like this the drums don't need to dominate the mix the same way they do in a funk or R&B band. As sjcorne and dave-wave noted, there's tons of bass in the rear speakers - it really made me wish I had a setup that featured four enormous floorstanding speakers, that's for sure. It's interesting actually, there seem to be a few of these '76/'77 era Columbia quads with no quad remix engineer credited that have the same right rear drums/left rear bass type of quad mix - this and Tower of Power are two, and Fredblue tells me that the Miracles 'Love Crazy' is another. I wonder if the same mysterious engineer did them all, because aside from Sly and the Family Stone's Greatest Hits, I can't think of many (or any) other quad mixes they put out between '72 and '75 that use that type of mixing style.

The biggest revalation for me on the first listen of this disc surprisingly was the (oft-maligned) vocals. Some of the lyrics are a bit cringeworthy, but I was struck by just how lifelike the timbre(4) of Gayle Moran's voice was on the opening track was, almost enough to make your armhair stand up. I was also really taken with how much multitracked vocals there are - people think of this album as being the one where they had a singer, but some real thought was put in to the execution of the vocals (especially the harmonised chorus parts) and I think it only really shows in the quad mix when things are panned to all four speakers.

I think 'weird' is one of the best words to describe this album, but it's weird in the best way. I was a child of the 80s, where music more often than not was very strict 3 minute verse/chorus/verse type stuff, so discovering albums like this as a teenager in the 90s, i felt like Alice going through the looking glass - 10 minute songs! crazy structures! weird synthesizers! long solos!

I haven't voted on this one yet, only having listened to it once, but it will be at least a 9 from me. The only reason I could see not giving it a 10 is that there are albums I like more (what would I give them, 11?) and the drums/bass in the rear mixing style isn't my favourite. I was bowled over by how good the disc sounds though, absolute reference quality in my opinion. It's a travesty that this quad mix (and so many others) have only been heard in discrete form on 8-track tape, which has less than half the frequency response of this new SACD.

there are other unmarked/uncredited Quads with Bass Rear Left/Drums Rear Right style mixes, incl.; Billy Preston's "Music Is My Life", Manhattans' "It Feels So Good", Minnie Ripperton's "Adventures In Paradise".. all great mixes like this one (imho!)

 

[steelydave]

I was skulking around the internet recently and came across an interview with Chick Corea from the July 1977 issue of Modern Recording where he actually mentions the quad mix of Musicmagic:



A bit of damning with faint praise, but I thought it was interesting (and cool) that he'd actually heard the quad mix. It's not surprising that he didn't entirely love it, given how much work he'd put in to the stereo version it's hard to have any kind of perspective.

Also interesting how good of a job the album's mystery quad mixers did in "three or four days" - while I still wish the drums and bass guitar were in stereo across the rear speakers (stupid SQ mixing rules!) I still think this album is a real quad showcase.

(The interview starts on page 60 by the way, and if you're interested in Chick Corea's work of that era it's well worth a read - it gets in to excellent detail about a lot of his recording and composing philosophies.)

 

[fredblue]

two (tough) mystery guys.. hmm

maybe based on another Bass = SL / Drums = SR CBS mix that got credited (Minnie Riperton's "Perfect Angel") the mystery men were Dick Bogert and Warren Vincent?

fwiw i love the Quad and wouldn't be so enamoured of the album in plain Stereo, the Quad takes a somewhat wacky/goofy album and totally shows off the awesome musicianship to dazzling effect, in particular the way the mix picks out all the glorious bass of Stanley Clarke in the left rear channel is astounding. i never tire of this one in Quad. still a big fat QQ "10"!

 

[The Rang]

Is this one OOP?
Can’t find it on DV’s site

 

[van1]

Is this one OOP?
Can’t find it on DV’s site

I asked last week and a repress is on the way

 

[The Rang]

Great news, thanks
And great for DV that some of these discs are selling well enough to warrant a repress.
Nothing will encourage them more than cold hard sales

 

[GaryG]

Looks like this title is back in stock. I ordered a copy from DV yesterday and it shipped overnight.

 

[The Rang]

How does the 2.0 on the DV compare with the Audio Fidelity?

 

[~dave~~wave~]

Is this one OOP?
Can’t find it on DV’s site

https://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=CDSML8528