Rolling Stones Goats Head Soup Deluxe Edition (with 5.1 & Dolby Atmos mixes!)

[MoB1]

The (silly) MENU:

Use the POP-UP-Menu once you start listening... to change between Stereo and Atmos.

About the 2020 mixes

Listening with headphones:

Goats Head Soup Stereo mix is much louder than the Atmos mix.
Only Jagger is as loud in the Atmos (as in stereo). Did Jagger do this?

The bonus tracks sound almost like mono (listening with headphones to the Atmos mix.)
Not like the stereo mix at all...

It's only rock and roll and I like it.

 

[jefe1]

Waiting to hear back from Udiscover about my return......

 

[Old Quad Guy]

I was able to get this for about $70 shipped from Amazon with the 3 for 2 deal. I have taken item out of it’s flimsy shipping box, that I assume was made by the manufacturer. This must be DOUBLE BOXED for shipping. Fortunately, mine looks okay, as it came in a big box with Abbey Road and recent John Lennon title.

I don’t have Atmos, so I’m not going to vote. I’ll give this a listen and find out how it sounds on a 5.1 system. I agree it should also have had a dedicated 5.1 mix. It should not have been advertised as having one, when it’s Atmos.

 

[zimmy]

So I got mine today. (Thanks again to BGF1973 for the tip on Amazon.it).

This 5.1 mix is all over the place for sure. Haven't even bothered to listen to it on the big rig yet; instead I had a quick listen on the computer setup as I loaded each track (from the 7.1 rip via audiomuxer) into Audacity to have a look at what I was hearing. The first thing that jumps out at me is the center channel is always too loud. And not consistently - sometimes a little, sometimes a LOT. This is mainly what's screwing up Mr. D, from what I can hear so far.

Speaking of tweaking: Is this the best thread to talk about such things, or should I start one? Or is there another already started?

I am really happy to have read this as it made me investigate this disc more in detail.
After ripping the disc to flac files i tried to lower the center channel but i also increased the rear channels.
Unfortunately these changes also demands that i get rid of the Atmos channels as my system can´t read files with so many channels. Played from an Bluray disc it is of course no problem as the player and receiver handles Atmos sound
I am one of the few that really like this disc even if it isn´t perfect when it comes to details about the surround.
But it is by far the best version of this album and is for me one of the most important discs i have now.
So now i have lost the enjoyment of the Atmos sound but i now hear much better the other things that has been made on this disc.
I am not going to point out in detail everything i have enjoyed but to hear the strings on Angie and Winter like this is absolutely wonderful.
So now i have two discs to enjoy as i still like to hear it with the Atmos sound on the Bluray.
My hope is that the stones continues to make surround on other albums and that they let somebody do it who isn´t scared of letting it be heard properly.

 

[proufo]

Maybe this has been mentioned before: 5.1 mixes usually are meant to be listened with side and center speakers similar to the main ones.

7.1 mixes and Atmos on the other hand are meant to be listened with movie-surround-type side and rear speakers (all speakers other than the LCR). So it is only proper that the side and rear channels do not have "principal" sounds, ergo no "discreteness".

So GHS's mix, that I may never hear, would be adequate for the intended playback setup.

 

[JediJoker]

Maybe this has been mentioned before: 5.1 mixes usually are meant to be listened with side and center speakers similar to the main ones.

7.1 mixes and Atmos on the other hand are meant to be listened with movie-surround-type side and rear speakers (all speakers other than the LCR). So it is only proper that the side and rear channels do not have "principal" sounds, ergo no "discreteness".

So GHS's mix, that I may never hear, would be adequate for the intended playback setup.

Is this coming from an industry perspective? Or just pure speculation? Because I would wager that it varies from mixer-to-mixer, studio-to-studio, and even mix-to-mix. In the end, any modern surround mix has to sound acceptable on any number of different speaker sizes and configurations. That's the reality of the market.

 

[himey]

Maybe this has been mentioned before: 5.1 mixes usually are meant to be listened with side and center speakers similar to the main ones.

7.1 mixes and Atmos on the other hand are meant to be listened with movie-surround-type side and rear speakers (all speakers other than the LCR). So it is only proper that the side and rear channels do not have "principal" sounds, ergo no "discreteness".

So GHS's mix, that I may never hear, would be adequate for the intended playback setup.

Did you read this somewhere or is this your personal opinion?

 

[EricKalet]

Maybe this has been mentioned before: 5.1 mixes usually are meant to be listened with side and center speakers similar to the main ones.

7.1 mixes and Atmos on the other hand are meant to be listened with movie-surround-type side and rear speakers (all speakers other than the LCR). So it is only proper that the side and rear channels do not have "principal" sounds, ergo no "discreteness".

So GHS's mix, that I may never hear, would be adequate for the intended playback setup.

Your speakers should be closely timbre matched and full range if possible, whether in a 5.1; 7.1 or Atmos set up. This has always been and will always be a truth of music and movie playback listening.

Dolby recommends: "Dolby Atmos audio is mixed using discrete, full-range audio objects that may move around anywhere in three-dimensional space. With this in mind, overhead speakers should complement the frequency response, output, and power-handling capabilities of the
listener-level speakers. Choose overhead speakers that are timbre matched as closely as
possible to the primary listener-level speakers. Overhead speakers with a wide dispersion
pattern are desirable for use in a Dolby Atmos system. This will ensure the closest
replication of the cinematic environment, where overhead speakers are placed high above
the listeners."

 

[himey]

Your speakers should be closely timbre matched and full range if possible, whether in a 5.1; 7.1 or Atmos set up. This has always been and will always be a truth of music and movie playback listening.

Dolby recommends: "Dolby Atmos audio is mixed using discrete, full-range audio objects that may move around anywhere in three-dimensional space. With this in mind, overhead speakers should complement the frequency response, output, and power-handling capabilities of the
listener-level speakers. Choose overhead speakers that are timbre matched as closely as
possible to the primary listener-level speakers. Overhead speakers with a wide dispersion
pattern are desirable for use in a Dolby Atmos system. This will ensure the closest
replication of the cinematic environment, where overhead speakers are placed high above
the listeners."

It is one thing to make compromises on an actual setup, but to in theory, make compromises, is where I draw the line. Haha.

 

[proufo]

Your speakers should be closely timbre matched and full range if possible, whether in a 5.1; 7.1 or Atmos set up. This has always been and will always be a truth of music and movie playback listening.

Dolby recommends: "Dolby Atmos audio is mixed using discrete, full-range audio objects that may move around anywhere in three-dimensional space. With this in mind, overhead speakers should complement the frequency response, output, and power-handling capabilities of the
listener-level speakers. Choose overhead speakers that are timbre matched as closely as
possible to the primary listener-level speakers. Overhead speakers with a wide dispersion
pattern are desirable for use in a Dolby Atmos system. This will ensure the closest
replication of the cinematic environment, where overhead speakers are placed high above
the listeners."

A small, bookshelf-type or home wide-dispersion speaker would not reproduce, say a drummer, the same way the larger L&R speakers do, even if timbre-matched. Given the way sounds are assigned to speakers in rock 5.1 mixes, the producers in virtually all cases assume that the main and "surround" speakers have the same or very similar capabilities.

Most home 7.1 systems were built for movies. That implies --in all sensible cases-- that the surround channels are smaller that the main ones. Ditto for the overhead Atmos speakers. Even Dolby's Atmos speaker-layouts for 5.1 and 7.1 show smaller speakers for the surround units. Of course someone can hang 8 Klipsch La Scala speakers from his ceiling if he desires so, but Atmos mixers won't assume that their market is those cases.

It makes sense that the producers of Atmos mixes would take into account the different speaker types when assigning sounds to speakers. That seems to be the case with GHS.

 

[EricKalet]

A small, bookshelf-type or home wide-dispersion speaker would not reproduce, say a drummer, the same way the larger L&R speakers do, even if timbre-matched...It makes sense that the producers of Atmos mixes would take into account the different speaker types when assigning sounds to speakers. That seems to be the case with GHS.

I don't think that is the case though...smaller bookshelf speakers could reproduce a drummer the same way a large speaker could because bass management is used in all of these setups, routing the low frequencies to the subwoofer(s).

According to Pro Tools:
"Ideally, all 11 speakers should be the same brand and model. but rather than the rear speakers being a smaller model from the same brand, it is suggested that the height speakers can be a smaller model as attaching large speakers to the ceiling comes with its own challenges.

But overall its the same concept, the fronts should all be the same, it is best if the sides match the fronts, but the sides, rears and heights speakers can be smaller models from the same brand.

For a 7.1.4 monitoring system, not only will you need 11 speakers plus a speaker to handle the LFE channel, which is a step up from 5.1 and an even bigger jump from just the 2 speakers you needed for stereo, but you will also need to have a 7.1.4 monitor controller. These are not very common and will not be cheap either, but there is another way and that is to combine your audio interface and monitor controller."

Even the studios use a combination of similar speakers but of varied sizes with bass management an integral part of the mixing process..
"The revamped Studio 1 control room for Dolby Atmos Music production features PMC's flagship IB2S XBD-A active monitors covering the left and right main channels, an IB2S-A for the centre channel, 10 discrete Wafer2 loudspeakers for surround and height channels and four sub2 subwoofers."

Check out what Deadmau5 did with his home studio. Certainly, judging by the pictures, he is not using huge floor standing speakers here...
https://www.magneticmag.com/2016/05...he-completion-of-his-new-home-studio-finally/
Finally as far as producers mixing for various systems or taking into account what sounds would go to which speakers, it would be impossible to do so since there are so many combinations of speakers that could be designed from 7.1.4 all the way down to headphones. Even Giles Martin states how he mixes for these 5.1 and Atmos versions of Sgt. Pepper: "The essence is that we wanted these songs to sound like themselves, and that you only realise when you go back to the original mixes that you’ve been listening to a new mix...It’s about improving the mixes, but retaining the original feel and the character of the music...Mixing is all about feel, and not necessarily about technical stuff. We were simply trying to create mixes that feel right.”

 

[CPR]

Ok, it's 5.1; kind of subdued; not great dynamic range, or separation
better than nothing, but.............
Some tracks better than others; sound wise
Thoughts?

 

[~dave~~wave~]

Ok, it's 5.1; kind of subdued; not great dynamic range, or separation
better than nothing, but.............
Some tracks better than others; sound wise
Thoughts?

Could you kindly clarify, are the first three lines before the question your conclusions after buying and listening to it?

I won't dispute what you wrote other than the first statement.
It's not, in fact, "5.1. "
It's Atmos.
Don't get me started, I'll change the subject now.

I've already expressed some thoughts, but I could keep going if you're truly interested.

• It's remarkable a re-mix of 1973 Stones got such a wide range of ratings.
• Two of the "4" votes are from respected industry insiders
• The founder of the forum voted 5

Buyer beware, but I'm happy with it.

I play it more often and enjoy it more than half of what I own, including the Beatles and Lennon.
I spun it again this morning, and took great delight in the Billy Preston clavinet.
Multiple layers of piano from Nicky Hopkins and Stu in multichannel is a treat.

 

[EricKalet]

It's not, in fact, "5.1. "
It's Atmos.

I agree with much of what you said but to clarify, it is 5.1 “compatible” At least it was marketed that way...

 

[Old Quad Guy]

First impression listing to this on about 10 year old receiver and Blu-ray player, was that it reminds one of the Living Stereo 3 channel SACD presentations. You could discern individual instruments, just not too much into the whole room, except occasionally. Don’t own a Atmos receiver yet, haven’t ripped tracks to look at them. So, not voting here. Curious if 5.1 downmix sounds different with a 5.1 Atmos setup.

The cardboard that is around the box set when first received, isn’t fit for shipping. It needs to be shipped in another box. I paid roughly $70 bucks with Amazon’s 3 for 2 sale. The box set the discs are in come off as cheaply made. The book isn’t printed on shiny paper, and the pages seem like they’re about to come unglued. For $70 such things don’t matter. For $150, they do.

Would like to see more titles, except with also a separate, dedicated 5.1 mix that uses all the speakers properly. Next time, put out a better product.

 

[Perp]

The votes are over the place in the Poll. I have been waiting for the price on this set to come way down before a purchase but now, I’m really not sure if it’s a good purchasing decision. I‘m off to read the Poll Thread...

 

[CPR]

Could you kindly clarify, are the first three lines before the question your conclusions after buying and listening to it?

I won't dispute what you wrote other than the first statement.
It's not, in fact, "5.1. "
It's Atmos.
Don't get me started, I'll change the subject now.

I've already expressed some thoughts, but I could keep going if you're truly interested.

• It's remarkable a re-mix of 1973 Stones got such a wide range of ratings.
• Two of the "4" votes are from respected industry insiders
• The founder of the forum voted 5

Buyer beware, but I'm happy with it.

I play it more often and enjoy it more than half of what I own, including the Beatles and Lennon.
I spun it again this morning, and took great delight in the Billy Preston clavinet.
Multiple layers of piano from Nicky Hopkins and Stu in multichannel is a treat.




View attachment 65913

Should have said Surround, compatible, with 5.1, & 7.1; still giving it a 5, after a thorough listen on my 17 speaker Acura/ELS 700 watt system
Just didn't 'WOW" me!

 

[mrcond]

Amazon Prime Day today and tomorrow. Goat's Head Soup super deluxe box coming up on sale at about 2:30 pm ET - not sure what the price will be, but presumably a bit lower than the current $112.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B089J5GZHL?ref=deals_primeday_deals-grid_slot-5_21f9_dt_dcell_tlt_6_8615d10f

(Post copied over from Sales and Discount Codes thread.)

 

[Old Quad Guy]

Make sure your order is double boxed on this one. The flimsy cardboard surrounding this box set is poor and only meant to protect the product, presumably, and certainly not meant for shipping.

The discs were alright (so far), but the rest of this is fairly lacking for a major artist like the Stones. For $70 I’m good with this. Otherwise, one might want to wait for Amazon’s 3 for the price of 2 sale, if it happens again.

 

[Infomas]

Amazon Prime Day today and tomorrow. Goat's Head Soup super deluxe box coming up on sale at about 2:30 pm ET - not sure what the price will be, but presumably a bit lower than the current $112.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B089J5GZHL?ref=deals_primeday_deals-grid_slot-5_21f9_dt_dcell_tlt_6_8615d10f

(Post copied over from Sales and Discount Codes thread.)

$85.11