Aphrodite's Child 666 (Deluxe Edition with Dolby Atmos & 5.1 surround upmixes)

[Intruder461]

When we say "upmix", does that mean that multitrack tape no longer exists? It makes no sense to release a Blu-ray disc with 5.1 or Atmos when the digitized multitrack tape is not available.

What I would like to hear are Demis Roussos' albums remixed in Atmos or 5.1 Surround on high-definition Blu-ray. His 1973 album Forever and Ever is wonderful. It would be amazing to be able to hear the songs: My Friend the Wind, Goodbye My Love Goodbye, Forever and Ever, Velvet Mornings remixed in 5.1 Surround 192kHz/24bits. I hope the multitrack master tape still exists on Universal Music, it would certainly be a sales success. Who else would like to see Demis Roussos in Atmos or 5.1 mix?

The word "Upmix" is generally the term used today. They used to call it a "Pseudo mix" because that is the software they use to generate a stereo source into a simulated 5.1 mix, or in this case, an Atmos mix. Effectively, it's no different from putting on a CD and using the DSPs on your AV Receiver, such as Dolby Prologic II, Neo 6, and so on. So yes in this case no Multitrack Tapes were used which is why I never bothered with this release and its price point is quite frankly taking the "P".


Dolby Atmos is also what I would call "Simulated" even though in general a 7.1 source is utilised to make it. Simply because 2 of the channels are using "Metadata" to create it not discrete channels as in a 7.1 mix. It uses Environmental software similar to what Creative Labs made for Games with EAX with their Soundcards years ago. It sort of begs the question of whether it is really worth laying out the extra cash for a Reciever that has more than 7.2 channels when no more than a 7.1 source is utilised to create it. The word FARCE! springs to mind.

 

[jefe1]

So Gos is going to have a lot of competition when he attempts to sell his copy?
Should I list mine for sale now?......not arrived yet......

 

[beerking]

So Gos is going to have a lot of competition when he attempts to sell his copy?
Should I list mine for sale now?......not arrived yet......

I'm hovering over the cancel button too....just waiting for the definitive Red or Green light.
Although in my experience most upmixes produced for the mass market are not normally worth it.

 

[Degrundt]

I received mine yesterday, purchased for about $40 from FNAC France. When you see it and play it, you'll understand why $30 was a good deal but not a steal. The book is fat, mostly with pictures. But given that the Greek LP version is a needledrop, the multichannel mix is an upmix, and the stereo remaster is a Ben Wiseman job, there really isn't a whole lot of value or content in this box set. Plenty of pictures in the bloated book though!

I didn't know that it was possible to order to FNAC from the states ! Otherwise i agree with the price regarding the content. I saw it today at a local department store at 74,99€...Can't understand such a price gap.

 

[GOS]

importCD had it listed (maybe still do) for $100. Hopefully no one ordered from them. Sounds like a rip off.

 

[bgf1973]

I preordered this for 44 €. I don't have high expectations (it is an upmix) but I think it is the best and most complete option to have this album. I think what I pay is a good price for what I get

 

[Sthunderrocker]

Yes, generally speaking, though it could simply indicate laziness or a lack of budget to locate decades-old tapes.

Generally thought to have gone up in the universal fire... Along with Jesus Christ Superstar and a ton of others...

 

[beerking]

I preordered this for 44 €. I don't have high expectations (it is an upmix) but I think it is the best and most complete option to have this album. I think what I pay is a good price for what I get

Yes, good points.
On reflection I have paid £40 for the pre-order from Amazon France. That is a good price considering what you get. And I ordered it knowing it is an upmix.
So I will keep it warts and all

 

[mandrix]

Dolby Atmos is also what I would call "Simulated" even though in general a 7.1 source is utilised to make it. Simply because 2 of the channels are using "Metadata" to create it not discrete channels as in a 7.1 mix. It uses Environmental software similar to what Creative Labs made for Games with EAX with their Soundcards years ago. It sort of begs the question of whether it is really worth laying out the extra cash for a Reciever that has more than 7.2 channels when no more than a 7.1 source is utilised to create it. The word FARCE! springs to mind.

There's so much wrong here I wouldn't know where to start.

 

[Intruder461]

There's so much wrong here I wouldn't know where to start.

If there is so much wrong here as you say then answer this. Does an Atmos mix contain more than 8 channels (counting the Sub channel) to create it?

 

[mandrix]

If there is so much wrong here as you say then answer this. Does an Atmos mix contain more than 8 channels (counting the Sub channel) to create it?

Obviously you are stuck on the idea of channels, and you don't like Atmos.
Educate yourself. I'm not going to waste time arguing with you when there is plenty on the internet from reputable sources to read.

 

[Sthunderrocker]

If there is so much wrong here as you say then answer this. Does an Atmos mix contain more than 8 channels (counting the Sub channel) to create it?

I short... Yes. Maybe not likely in music, but not impossible. In films, you can literally have up to 128 discrete stems being output to as many as 64 discrete channels.

 

[Sthunderrocker]

Now if I were to make an anti Atmos argument, I would point out that the more stems you have flying around the more discreet speakers in your setup the less discreet your audio sounds. It becomes an envelopment which counters the fun of hearing specific instruments in specific places. Which is fully doable in Atmos, but not necessarily the goal.

 

[mandrix]

Once you get past the concept of channels, and more in the spatial realm, maybe it's easier to understand. For example, I have had a 7.1.4 setup, but currently using a 5.1.4 speaker arrangement.
When you apparently hear sound not coming directly from one speaker, but seemingly suspended between two speakers, that's part of the concept. In more adventurous mixes, the sound may move around the room in a fashion that suggests more speakers than actually exist.
Maybe not a great explanation but only way I can think to word it right now.
IOW I know I don't have any speaker between my Front Right and Front Right Height speakers, but I often hear music seemingly coming from a phantom speaker located somewhere in between.

I know everyone doesn't love Atmos, and some only listen to Quad. I got no problem with that, everyone should do as one pleases.
What I don't understand is that people that have not tried it often shoot it down.

 

[Sthunderrocker]

Once you get past the concept of channels, and more in the spatial realm, maybe it's easier to understand. For example, I have had a 7.1.4 setup, but currently using a 5.1.4 speaker arrangement.
When you apparently hear sound not coming directly from one speaker, but seemingly suspended between two speakers, that's part of the concept. In more adventurous mixes, the sound may move around the room in a fashion that suggests more speakers than actually exist.
Maybe not a great explanation but only way I can think to word it right now.
IOW I know I don't have any speaker between my Front Right and Front Right Height speakers, but I often hear music seemingly coming from a phantom speaker located somewhere in between.

I know everyone doesn't love Atmos, and some only listen to Quad. I got no problem with that, everyone should do as one pleases.
What I don't understand is that people that have not tried it often shoot it down.

Exactly. Atmos can encode 128 distinct channels with panning absolutely anywhere within a 3d semicircle that you are in the center of. Just like listening to stereo with a good recording with good speakers you hear a center channel with no center speaker, you can place sounds in between any speakers and it will adjust automatically for up to 64 speakers in your room.

 

[Intruder461]

Obviously you are stuck on the idea of channels, and you don't like Atmos.
Educate yourself. I'm not going to waste time arguing with you when there is plenty on the internet from reputable sources to read.

I do not hate Atmos or intend to put it down, but I don't think it is as cracked up as it's supposed to be. Besides calling some of it simulated, I also call it a PinPointing System that defeats the object of what your receiver is capable of doing. To be honest, Atmos has added some value in many respects simply because more and more music is now being put out in 7.1 instead of 5.1 so that's a bonus whereas before 7.1 was mostly used for Movies.

One of the reasons why I call it a "PinPointing System" is down to the fact that you do not need speakers in your ceiling to hear anything above your head. A 5.1 setup is well capable of placing things anywhere around or even out of the room. I've watched horror films where it literally sounds like someone is in the bedroom above me trashing it. It's all down to speaker placement and nothing more. By using more speakers to get the effect, I think you are defeating the object of what your system is capable of doing in the first place. So I would not call Atmos exactly the Bees Knees to create that effect.

Now bear in mind that my observations about Atmos are based on hearing it in other people's houses and in Cinemas not in my own home and quite frankly I am not that impressed. In saying that I don't think any Cinema set-up has ever impressed me in relation to how everything is set up in my own home. I think that would go for most people too.

I have a 7.1 set-up and rather than place the other surrounds in the middle of the room at the sides I bought ceiling speakers and mounted them in the ceiling above my head in my seating position at the back of the room. Now either next month or in January I will be updating my Reciever I have opted to go for the Yamaha Aventage RX-A4A. I could get the higher model the RX-A6A but I don't see the point with the extra channels and I don't fancy cutting more holes in my ceiling to mount speakers lol. But this Reciever will give me the chance to experience Atmos 5.1 .2 in my own home to see if I am missing out on something here.

 

[sjcorne]

If the insinuation here is that the height channels in Atmos are not 'discrete' but somehow matrixed from a 7.1 source, that's patently false. There are so many Atmos mixes with unique information completely isolated in those top speakers. Take for instance the recently-released Tom Petty Long After Dark album - mute the heights, and you'll lose all the backing vocals, percussion, and most of the lead guitar parts.

 

[mandrix]

I do not hate Atmos or intend to put it down, but I don't think it is as cracked up as it's supposed to be. Besides calling some of it simulated, I also call it a PinPointing System that defeats the object of what your receiver is capable of doing. To be honest, Atmos has added some value in many respects simply because more and more music is now being put out in 7.1 instead of 5.1 so that's a bonus whereas before 7.1 was mostly used for Movies.

One of the reasons why I call it a "PinPointing System" is down to the fact that you do not need speakers in your ceiling to hear anything above your head. A 5.1 setup is well capable of placing things anywhere around or even out of the room. I've watched horror films where it literally sounds like someone is in the bedroom above me trashing it. It's all down to speaker placement and nothing more. By using more speakers to get the effect, I think you are defeating the object of what your system is capable of doing in the first place. So I would not call Atmos exactly the Bees Knees to create that effect.

Now bear in mind that my observations about Atmos are based on hearing it in other people's houses and in Cinemas not in my own home and quite frankly I am not that impressed. In saying that I don't think any Cinema set-up has ever impressed me in relation to how everything is set up in my own home. I think that would go for most people too.

I have a 7.1 set-up and rather than place the other surrounds in the middle of the room at the sides I bought ceiling speakers and mounted them in the ceiling above my head in my seating position at the back of the room. Now either next month or in January I will be updating my Reciever I have opted to go for the Yamaha Aventage RX-A4A. I could get the higher model the RX-A6A but I don't see the point with the extra channels and I don't fancy cutting more holes in my ceiling to mount speakers lol. But this Reciever will give me the chance to experience Atmos 5.1 .2 in my own home to see if I am missing out on something here.

We are all entitled to our opinions. I would never tell anyone else that how they listen to music is wrong. But on other points we will just have to agree to disagree. Rock on.

 

[ogrequad]

My copy arrived from Dusty Groove today. For $30, this is a great deal. I like the small size of the box, and the booklet is great, imho. Yes, there are a lot of photos but there is also a nice essay on the history of the album as well as reproductions of several articles and interviews from the time of the album release. Each disc is in a gatefold mini-lp replica and, while each one reproduces the exact same album artwork, it is a quality product overall.

I am currently listening to the Blu-Ray (5.1 mix) and, yeah, it is quite obviously an upmix and not a great one at that. Center channel is pretty much non-existent and the rears mostly have faint echoes of the front channels. “Aegean Sea” is probably the best mix so far. All of that said, the quality of the transfer sounds good to these ears, so while I can’t say that I’ll listen to this for the surround experience, I am very happy with the purchase. Looking forward to checking out the Greek mix!

 

[ogrequad]

A minor nit to pick:

Considering the number of photos in the booklet, I do wish that they had used some of them for the visual accompaniment on the Blu-Ray. Instead, it just cycles back and forth between one band promo shot and the car crash drawing from the inner gatefold, which gets tiresome pretty quickly.