HiRez Poll Rush - 2112 (Five Point One) [DVD-A/BluRay Audio]

[timbre4]

That's a drag. My Samsung HD841 would play the DVD-A with track gaps and no comic book. Panasonic Blu Ray plays the DD track flawlessly; no gaps and comic pages changing throughout.

At this point, it seems that the DVD-A authoring may be giving older machines a hard time. I have a new Denon universal player coming at the end of the week, I'll bet it plays the DVD-A track as intended. I'll post results.

 

[SMS]

The fidelity is fantastic! 2112 has never sounded this good. The visuals are also excellent. Really nice to see the Bluray format used to it's full potential.

But, the mix is just OK. It is somewhat inconsistent from track to track, just like the other Chycki mixes. And, it is just not adventurous enough for my tastes. So much more could've been done with "The Twilight Zone" for instance. The whispered vocals near the end should have you looking over your shoulder, but no... they were mixed up front. That track was the biggest disappointment for me.

Overall, I am still very happy with it, since the improvement in fidelity is obvious. The mix is not bad, it is just too safe. 9.5 for fidelity. 10 for content. 8 for the mix. 9 overall.

 

[neil wilkes]

I am understanding correctly that the DVDA version places a 2 sec gap between each track but the Blu-ray does not?

It is most unlikely although theoretically possible if the title was not set for continuous playback of the group.

Great reviews so far . . . I'd love to give my 2 cents worth, but my copy locks up on the Hi-Rez portions of the disc . . . anyone else having this issue? I'm sure it's an authoring issue, as I've had this exact same problem with anything Neil (Wilkes) has authored at Opus Productions (i.e. all PT, KC, etc.), and I've talked to Neil about it extensively in the past (a problem with the "guts" of my Yamaha DV-C6770 . . . I know, I know . . . I need to get a "real" player ). The thing is, all the previous Rush DVDA's have played flawlessly. Hrmmmm!?! Anyone have any insight?

You're getting lockups as your firmware cannot deal with 16:9 widescreen DVD-A titles.
This is caused by the manufacturer using a decoder chipset that uss the old DVDA rules before 16:9 was allowed (which happened in book revision 1.25) and it would seem that either this chipset cannot be updated, or the manufacturers simply obsoleted the player instead. I cannot remember from memory which chip it is, but the only workaround is a written version formatted to 4:3 instead of 16:9 - or a new player.
Sorry.

 

[hwkn]

I gave it a 10 because I thought the mix was quite good[could've been a little better I would've given it a 9.5 but there's no 9.5].

 

[dr. simple]

So much more could've been done with "The Twilight Zone" for instance. The whispered vocals near the end should have you looking over your shoulder, but no... they were mixed up front.

How strange... Maybe you need to come over to my house and listen, because the whispered vocals were clearly in the rear speakers!

 

[fredblue]

How strange... Maybe you need to come over to my house and listen, because the whispered vocals were clearly in the rear speakers!

hmm.. are either of you fellas running rigs that use Audyssey MultEQ?

only it seriously muffed up some steering and stuff for me in the past, especially with vocals appearing all over the place that should have been in specific channels (and were in their rightful - or wrong, if it sounded less interesting - place, with Audyssey switched Off!)

 

[dr. simple]

hmm.. are either of you fellas running rigs that use Audyssey MultEQ?

only it seriously muffed up some steering and stuff for me in the past, especially with vocals appearing all over the place that should have been in specific channels (and were in their rightful - or wrong, if it sounded less interesting - place, with Audyssey switched Off!)

I use Audyssey MultEQ, and I've never noticed any odd positioning. So where do YOU hear the whispered vocals on "Twilight Zone"?

 

[LJ]

How strange... Maybe you need to come over to my house and listen, because the whispered vocals were clearly in the rear speakers!

Yep, have to agree, whispered vocals are definitely in the rear's (primarily left, with right echo - or I'm just going a little deaf on the right side).

I will also have to say that, after spending a lot of the last week listening to a variety of surround mixes and coming back to this one after a break, it sounds better than my first impression was of it. The sound quality is simply astounding and the overall mix is actually excellent. We all might disagree around here, but it is far above average and I would probably call it "Demo Quality" for what can be done with an older recording.

After giving Mr Chycki a hard time in some of my reviews, I think after his last couple of efforts, he can continue with the RUSH catalogue as he has produced above average interpretations of the surround mixes. Just keep pumping them out until they are all done..... And the Blu-ray format is probably the best format so far.

 

[dr. simple]

Yep, have to agree, whispered vocals are definitely in the rear's (primarily left, with right echo - or I'm just going a little deaf on the right side).

...but it is far above average and I would probably call it "Demo Quality" for what can be done with an older recording.

...And the Blu-ray format is probably the best format so far.

I agree - mostly the left rear. I was sitting on the right side of the room, between the right front and right rear (while a friend was in the sweet spot), and it was mostly coming from the left rear.

I only disagree about demo quality because the mix is not that adventurous - not enough to convince someone that they need 5.1. But I agree with everything else you said, especially about the Blu-Ray format.

 

[fredblue]

I use Audyssey MultEQ, and I've never noticed any odd positioning. So where do YOU hear the whispered vocals on "Twilight Zone"?

fair enough, it might have been a fault of my old Denon AVR.. its been a while since I last used it.. but there were some very strange things the Denon (and I suspected Audyssey MultEQ) did.. including boosting the bass to boomy levels of nastiness, rounding off the treble removing any top air to notes and bleeding discrete channel info into rears from centre and front on M/C SACDs, DVDAs etc. with Audyssey off, bass was normal, treble was restored and front & centre sounds stayed put with no problems, so I put it down to Audyssey processing but it could have just been a duff old unit!

I've not bought the 2112 set yet, way too much other stuff to allocate the spondoolicks to.. and my other half couldn't find it on sale anywhere to get it for me in time for Xmas.. but as soon as I get it, I'll check it all out on my Audyssey-free Yammy and see where those whispering whispers are coming from..!!

 

[SMS]

How strange... Maybe you need to come over to my house and listen, because the whispered vocals were clearly in the rear speakers!

I regret going from memory and claiming the whispered vocals were mixed up front. My bad. I took another listen and you all are correct and they are mixed mostly in the left rear, with a slight echo in the right rear (and even very faintly in the front if you get up close to them). This is somewhat expected, I guess, because in stereo the whisper comes from the left.

I am still disappointed with the effect however. It is too quiet perhaps, or maybe not discreet enough. I was expecting something more, because the whispered vocals have a very creepy/startling effect in stereo through headphones, and I was expecting something more in surround.

BTW, I don't use Audyssey, or any room correction, and I set up the channel levels manually a SPL meter. I re-checked the levels again yesterday and they were all correct.

Anyhow... I was (and still am) nitpicking. Chalk it up to having too high expectations for a song/album that I know very intimately.

I am definitely loving the fidelity, and the mix will grow on me I am sure. I recently listened to Moving Pictures again, and 2112 has a slight edge on that one. It is probably the best of all the Rush 5.1 releases and I sincerely hope more are released.

 

[SMS]

Forgot to mention.... My 8 and 5 year old sons listened with me this morning! It's the first time I recall them sitting through an entire album from start to finish without moving. I am sure it is mostly due to the cartoon images, but it was still nice to see. The images and lyrics really helped 8 year old grasp the story-line.

 

[dr. simple]

Forgot to mention.... My 8 and 5 year old sons listened with me this morning! It's the first time I recall them sitting through an entire album from start to finish without moving. I am sure it is mostly due to the cartoon images, but it was still nice to see. The images and lyrics really helped 8 year old grasp the story-line.

A couple years ago I was riding in the car with my now 17-year-old daughter, and I explained the story to her while we listened. We got home before it was finished, and she asked me to drive around the block until side one finished!

 

[wavelength]

As others have stated, the 5.1 mix is conservative. But there are enough out and out surround sections to satisfy - and those are nicely mixed. The dts-hd mix gives me a headache (literally). Never had that problem on my other bd discs. I'm sure glad there is the pcm mix - the fidelity on that is excellent.

 

[SMS]

As others have stated, the 5.1 mix is conservative. But there are enough out and out surround sections to satisfy - and those are nicely mixed. The dts-hd mix gives me a headache (literally). Never had that problem on my other bd discs. I'm sure glad there is the pcm mix - the fidelity on that is excellent.

Strange. I've only listened to the DTS-MA track, fully expecting it would be identical sounding to the 5.1 PCM. They should sound the same. Both are lossless. I certainly don't find the DTS-MA track to be headache inducing.

I'll have to listen again and compare the two.

 

[SMS]

A couple years ago I was riding in the car with my now 17-year-old daughter, and I explained the story to her while we listened. We got home before it was finished, and she asked me to drive around the block until side one finished!

Awesome

 

[Ranasakawa]

Played my DVD-A today and not impressed with the 5.1 mix, gave it a 6. Nothing like some of the other DVD-A I have such as ELP and Porcupine Tree, I have Moving Pictures also on DVD-A and the 5.1 is also not that interesting.
This will be the last Rush DVD-A I will invest in. They just don't set the world on fire in soround sound.

 

[timbre4]

The good news is that the Denon DBT-1713UDCI plays the 2112 DVD-A without the gaps that the Samsung did.

The new player really sounds great and improved my opinion of this release slightly. Listening from left of the centered soundfield, it's easier to notice what was done front to back. It's still not utilizing a lot of musical elements as discretely as we've come to expect from the great mixes. Rather it is a lot of effect sends placed in the rear to "imply" surround much of the time. It does have a few nice touches throughout and the side 2 cuts (Lessons, Tears, etc.) seem bolder in mixing approach. The accompanying visuals are terrific, however I can only muster a 7 score overall.

 

[SMS]

Strange. I've only listened to the DTS-MA track, fully expecting it would be identical sounding to the 5.1 PCM. They should sound the same. Both are lossless. I certainly don't find the DTS-MA track to be headache inducing.

I'll have to listen again and compare the two.

I just compared the PCM track to the DTS-MA. They definitely do not sound the same, but neither sound bad to me. The DTS-MA track has a bit more bass depth, and perhaps a slightly warmer sound. The PCM seemed to have cleaner high frequencies, however. The PCM track has a soundstage that is a bit more up front or "in your face" while the DTS-MA track had the soundstage a little further back. After boosting the LFE channel by 1db to make up for the thin bass, I slightly preferred the PCM track, but both sounded very good.

The differences were very audible, which I am surprised by. They really should be identical. Can anyone explain why there is any difference at all?

BTW... I am using my Oppo 83SE analog outputs into my preamp. So, the Oppo is doing the DTS-MA decoding and DtoA conversion in both cases.

 

[LizardKing]

I just compared the PCM track to the DTS-MA. They definitely do not sound the same, but neither sound bad to me. The DTS-MA track has a bit more bass depth, and perhaps a slightly warmer sound. The PCM seemed to have cleaner high frequencies, however. The PCM track has a soundstage that is a bit more up front or "in your face" while the DTS-MA track had the soundstage a little further back. After boosting the LFE channel by 1db to make up for the thin bass, I slightly preferred the PCM track, but both sounded very good.

The differences were very audible, which I am surprised by. They really should be identical. Can anyone explain why there is any difference at all?

BTW... I am using my Oppo 83SE analog outputs into my preamp. So, the Oppo is doing the DTS-MA decoding and DtoA conversion in both cases.

I have the same set-up a Oppo 83SE with analog outs!!! I've found (not that I've done a real formal comparision) that I always prefer the LPCM to DTS-HD MA... Like you say the highs sound "cleaner"...

I will have a listen tonight - just got this disc yesterday & compare the tracks...