HiRez Poll Rush - 2112 (Five Point One) [DVD-A/BluRay Audio]
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MyCuff
600 Club - QQ All-Star
I think improved hardware, i.e. the transport system of the gear, can improve the sound even if the digital signal in theory is the same.
I've listened to this several times now and finally am ready to vote. As far as musical content, I like the album. Although, it is a little odd that it starts out as what seems to be a sci-fi rock opera, but then the second half of the album is just an assortment of songs that don't have any connection to the story told on the first half of the album.
Sonically, as many people have mentioned, it sounds great. And for what i would consider a conservative surround mix, it is better than most. There is a nice rich fullness and presence to many of the songs that comes from what they've done with the rear channels. I'm one who prefers a more aggressive and maybe creative use of the rear channels in a surround recording, so that is the one place where the disc is less than ideal for me. I do enjoy the comic book visual content. Much more enjoyable than just looking at a lyrics screen or random photos of the band. Overall, I would give this one an 8. Even if it's not what I'd consider a perfect surround mix, I'm still grateful to be getting original material that has not been mixed in surround.
Sonically, as many people have mentioned, it sounds great. And for what i would consider a conservative surround mix, it is better than most. There is a nice rich fullness and presence to many of the songs that comes from what they've done with the rear channels. I'm one who prefers a more aggressive and maybe creative use of the rear channels in a surround recording, so that is the one place where the disc is less than ideal for me. I do enjoy the comic book visual content. Much more enjoyable than just looking at a lyrics screen or random photos of the band. Overall, I would give this one an 8. Even if it's not what I'd consider a perfect surround mix, I'm still grateful to be getting original material that has not been mixed in surround.
Originally voted 7. Right now I'm stoned and would give it a 10. Good thing I can't vote again! (Don't worry... I only vote sober
)
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Ge Someone
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
In the LP era this made sense because the A- and B-side were separate events. You might try to play the "öther" part first (from track 8), and then the "suite".
Surroundwise the first half of the album feels like the mixer held back on the surround experience, I like the second half more, in this respect. Musically it is their breakthrough, defining what was to come, a great album. Sonically it is pretty good as well.
To me, this is the best Rush 5.1 there is. Great clarity and power. Yes, there are moments that seem to miss the mark, like the lead guitar homage to "1812 Overture" near the end of Overture. Then, later in the album, the lead intro to Bangkok is pretty loud. Some consistency there would have been good.
I LOVE watching the comic book while listening. I'd love to see this done for more concept albums.
Yes, all the Rush 5.1 releases are very, VERY conservative. Definitely discreet, but unexciting. Stuff placed mostly to fill the room, but that's primarily it.
I think it's also sad that Rush did not release albums like Vapor Trails Remix and Clockwork Angels in 5.1. As densely layered as they are, even with a very conservative mix, at least we'd get more space for various parts.
I voted 8, because I think the 5.1 mix lacks some attention to detail. Otherwise, pretty happy with this.
Regarding other Rush 5.1 mixes, my favorite is Signals. I'm pretty damn sure that alternate vocal takes, and, if memory serves, alternate guitar takes, are often/sometimes used. Being pretty familiar with the original stereo, it is fascinating to me to hear some subtle differences. It's almost an alternate album.
**Edit: I'd now rate Steven Wilson's AFtK and Chycki's Fly By Night above this.**
I LOVE watching the comic book while listening. I'd love to see this done for more concept albums.
Yes, all the Rush 5.1 releases are very, VERY conservative. Definitely discreet, but unexciting. Stuff placed mostly to fill the room, but that's primarily it.
I think it's also sad that Rush did not release albums like Vapor Trails Remix and Clockwork Angels in 5.1. As densely layered as they are, even with a very conservative mix, at least we'd get more space for various parts.
I voted 8, because I think the 5.1 mix lacks some attention to detail. Otherwise, pretty happy with this.
Regarding other Rush 5.1 mixes, my favorite is Signals. I'm pretty damn sure that alternate vocal takes, and, if memory serves, alternate guitar takes, are often/sometimes used. Being pretty familiar with the original stereo, it is fascinating to me to hear some subtle differences. It's almost an alternate album.
**Edit: I'd now rate Steven Wilson's AFtK and Chycki's Fly By Night above this.**
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The only Chycki-Rush 5.1 I'd heard prior to picking up this one is Moving Pictures - this is so much better! I'm voting an "8". Don't get me wrong, it's still on the conservative side in terms of surround - and it doesn't even come close to what SW did with A Farewell To Kings - but I found to be an extremely enjoyable listen nonetheless.
Though most of the band is in the front channels, I noticed a multitude of discrete effects in the rears: the flowing stream in "Discovery", the crazy panning guitar solo at the end of the 2112 suite, the middle-eastern guitar in the beginning of "Passage To Bangkok", the whispered vocals in the chorus of "The Twilight Zone", and acoustic guitars in "Tears" and "Something For Nothing".
I also absolutely love the comic book presentation that plays in sync with the album - as with Gentle Giant's The Power & The Glory, it really elevates the listening experience.
My biggest issue with this mix is that the drum kit sounds really narrow - the "wrap-around drums" effect that SW used on A Farewell To Kings would have sounded incredible if used here (or on any Rush album, really). I also felt that the lead vocal was often a bit too wet and too loud in the fronts. Plus you've got the dynamic range compression, but it sounds much better than it looks.
"2112":
"Passage To Bangkok":
Though most of the band is in the front channels, I noticed a multitude of discrete effects in the rears: the flowing stream in "Discovery", the crazy panning guitar solo at the end of the 2112 suite, the middle-eastern guitar in the beginning of "Passage To Bangkok", the whispered vocals in the chorus of "The Twilight Zone", and acoustic guitars in "Tears" and "Something For Nothing".
I also absolutely love the comic book presentation that plays in sync with the album - as with Gentle Giant's The Power & The Glory, it really elevates the listening experience.
My biggest issue with this mix is that the drum kit sounds really narrow - the "wrap-around drums" effect that SW used on A Farewell To Kings would have sounded incredible if used here (or on any Rush album, really). I also felt that the lead vocal was often a bit too wet and too loud in the fronts. Plus you've got the dynamic range compression, but it sounds much better than it looks.
"2112":
"Passage To Bangkok":
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Mj33
Member
I really like this surround mix. And you get to watch a cartoon of 2112 in all its glory. The subtle sounds on "Tears" work really well in 5.1. Not sure why there's not more support for this one but a great surround mix.
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R.I.P. Neal Peart. Some of the drum rolls on 2112 are glorious in surround.
Listening now without the center channel (by mistake). But it sounds fine...
Voted 8 long ago. Holding to it!
Here's why...
Here's why...
Mj33
Member
Agreed. Not sure what's up with all the criticism. The blu ray of Moving Pictures is also very good. Neal Peart once said that playing YYZ was always s challenge, even during R40. Now that is a testament to the man's unparalleled abilities on the drum kit. May he always shine brightly in the hearts of music lovers.
Looks like I'm in the minority here. I really wanted to love this like I did A Farewell to Kings. Sadly I was disappointed in 2112's 5.1 Blu-Ray. The mix is "OK", but the mastering (for me) ruins a good thing. It sounds muddled and dull on my system. The drums are indistinct and almost hidden. Just to see if there was something wrong with my system, I played other superbly mix/mastered titles in succession: A Farewell to Kings (SW mix), The Nightfly, and this. OK, system working fine. So the mediocre sound (to my ears) must come from the Rush BR.
I'll go with mix=7, mastering = 5, content = 8. Average: 7
I'll go with mix=7, mastering = 5, content = 8. Average: 7
I agree and that pretty well sums up my opinion of this release as well.
I know the sound of the original vinyl and early CD very well. It had very strong impact.
It's like they took the total impact of the original and cut it up into 5 weaker pcs.
Steve Wilson would have taken the original dynamics and then built into it.
I think this sounds pretty good overall , I agree with Edison on many points the mix is a bit conservative at times and , and I really miss the 1812 quote by Alex at the end of Overture - the comic strip menu is a nice touch too. Passage To Bangkok sounds huge! really enjoy that track , I'm going with an 8 - its a very good album and as is well documented saved Rush's career to a large degree.
Gaaaah!!
I went looking for my 2112 copy and I cannot find it. I think I've lost my mind... WTF!!!
I went looking for my 2112 copy and I cannot find it. I think I've lost my mind... WTF!!!
The56Kid
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
fthesoundguy
Senior Member
I’ll start with the strong parts because there are a couple. The instant 2112 starts, it envelopes you with those alien sounds across the sound field and sets you up for what should be a great album. The acoustic guitar in Tears is great as well. It's sitting in the surrounds and give a nice compliment to the electric up front. It happens in Something For Nothing too and gives a nice balance to that part of the tracks.
And now for the bad. The reverb is HORRIBLE. My goodness. What a disaster. There is quite a bit on it in the stereo version, but its just slathered on the 5.1 mix. Its like Chycki liked how Vital Signs sounded on Moving Pictures and just decided to make the whole album sound this way. On this record, reverb is in every speaker, which just overwhelmed the mix. Its just too much and honestly, unlistenable.
I listened to this whole album with only the center and surrounds, and i’m confident that the center is the LR summed in places. In other parts it sounds like its JUST reverb for… everything? It’s part of the reason this sounds cluttered and everything is kind of narrow. It’s a puzzling mixing move.
I muted everything but the center to just see what exactly is in it and went through 2112.
Overture: Its the LR summed except he vocals reverb “Ahhhh’s” are so buried in it.
The Temples of Syrinx: LR summed.
Discovery: I think its just the vocal, guitar and waterfall reverb, maybe a 50/50 mix at most but probably closer to the 100% wet reverb.
Presentation: It’s the vocal reverb with bass, ALL the drums, cymbals, guitars.
Oracle: reverbs for guitar, vocals, All drums, cymbals, bass
Soliloquy: Vocal verb, guitars, faint waterfall, All drums, bass. The guitar solo its in the center and front left
Grand Finale: It’s definitely the LR summed.
It’s honestly shocking to me how horrible this is. At the same time, its fascinating to try and figure out why anyone would do this… It happens in all the other tracks in different ways as well.
If you mute the center, you really don’t miss anything and its a slightly better listening experience. Vocals are still screaming out of the fronts and only a couple things are truly buried because of it. Some guitar solos are in it, but they’re also in the front at a little lower level. It also slightly cuts down on the awful reverb all over this mix.
When I was done analyzing the center, I muted it and only heard the surrounds. I realized then that there are points in everything song where the rears sound mirrored to the fronts. Like a upmix. During the solo in in Soliloquy, you can hear all the drums and toms back there. Even kick drum! The guitars/vocals are definitely boosted compared to the front, but all the drums are still there. During the Grand Finale, the panning guitar is twice as loud as everything else, but its still sounds the same as the LR otherwise. A Passage To Bangkok in the surrounds sounds… like the stereo mix, except with the one guitar lick boosted way higher. The Twilight Zone sounds like the stereo mix but with more vocal reverb and the whispering voice boosted. Lessons sounds like the stereo mix as well. I didn’t even want to listen to the rest of the record after that. This is not what you do to create an “immersive” experience!… The more I dive into this, the more frustrated and disgusted I get.
I’m going to start to give a better breakdown of why I am scoring the way I am. I like to score more on the mix instead of everything at a 30/30/30. It’s the main reason I am here. I make the content 10% because I don’t think anyone really cares if I like the material or not. Everyone can stream an album and make up their mind to purchase based on that themselves.
Breakdown:
Mix: 50% - There is a little bit of nice panning happening, but there could be so much more. The center channel is messed up BAD. Cannot be understated enough. Surrounds are a joke as well. 1/5
Fidelity: 30% - Drums don’t sound that great to me and just is kind of blah as a whole. Luckily the stereo mix sounds fantastic. 1/3
Content: 10% - It’s my second favorite band and this is their most important album. 1/1
Packaging: 10% - I have no issues with this. A pretty accessible title with no crazy box set automatically gets a 1/1
It should be a 4 but i’m going to give an extra point to the only redeeming quality to this, which is the comic book going along with the album. It was really cool and took me away from the horrible mix for a moment. Luckily the high quality stereo version is on this, which is the only thing i’ll listen to from this one. So much potential wasted on this release. Wow…This one really makes me sad.
Total: 5/10
And now for the bad. The reverb is HORRIBLE. My goodness. What a disaster. There is quite a bit on it in the stereo version, but its just slathered on the 5.1 mix. Its like Chycki liked how Vital Signs sounded on Moving Pictures and just decided to make the whole album sound this way. On this record, reverb is in every speaker, which just overwhelmed the mix. Its just too much and honestly, unlistenable.
I listened to this whole album with only the center and surrounds, and i’m confident that the center is the LR summed in places. In other parts it sounds like its JUST reverb for… everything? It’s part of the reason this sounds cluttered and everything is kind of narrow. It’s a puzzling mixing move.
I muted everything but the center to just see what exactly is in it and went through 2112.
Overture: Its the LR summed except he vocals reverb “Ahhhh’s” are so buried in it.
The Temples of Syrinx: LR summed.
Discovery: I think its just the vocal, guitar and waterfall reverb, maybe a 50/50 mix at most but probably closer to the 100% wet reverb.
Presentation: It’s the vocal reverb with bass, ALL the drums, cymbals, guitars.
Oracle: reverbs for guitar, vocals, All drums, cymbals, bass
Soliloquy: Vocal verb, guitars, faint waterfall, All drums, bass. The guitar solo its in the center and front left
Grand Finale: It’s definitely the LR summed.
It’s honestly shocking to me how horrible this is. At the same time, its fascinating to try and figure out why anyone would do this… It happens in all the other tracks in different ways as well.
If you mute the center, you really don’t miss anything and its a slightly better listening experience. Vocals are still screaming out of the fronts and only a couple things are truly buried because of it. Some guitar solos are in it, but they’re also in the front at a little lower level. It also slightly cuts down on the awful reverb all over this mix.
When I was done analyzing the center, I muted it and only heard the surrounds. I realized then that there are points in everything song where the rears sound mirrored to the fronts. Like a upmix. During the solo in in Soliloquy, you can hear all the drums and toms back there. Even kick drum! The guitars/vocals are definitely boosted compared to the front, but all the drums are still there. During the Grand Finale, the panning guitar is twice as loud as everything else, but its still sounds the same as the LR otherwise. A Passage To Bangkok in the surrounds sounds… like the stereo mix, except with the one guitar lick boosted way higher. The Twilight Zone sounds like the stereo mix but with more vocal reverb and the whispering voice boosted. Lessons sounds like the stereo mix as well. I didn’t even want to listen to the rest of the record after that. This is not what you do to create an “immersive” experience!… The more I dive into this, the more frustrated and disgusted I get.
I’m going to start to give a better breakdown of why I am scoring the way I am. I like to score more on the mix instead of everything at a 30/30/30. It’s the main reason I am here. I make the content 10% because I don’t think anyone really cares if I like the material or not. Everyone can stream an album and make up their mind to purchase based on that themselves.
Breakdown:
Mix: 50% - There is a little bit of nice panning happening, but there could be so much more. The center channel is messed up BAD. Cannot be understated enough. Surrounds are a joke as well. 1/5
Fidelity: 30% - Drums don’t sound that great to me and just is kind of blah as a whole. Luckily the stereo mix sounds fantastic. 1/3
Content: 10% - It’s my second favorite band and this is their most important album. 1/1
Packaging: 10% - I have no issues with this. A pretty accessible title with no crazy box set automatically gets a 1/1
It should be a 4 but i’m going to give an extra point to the only redeeming quality to this, which is the comic book going along with the album. It was really cool and took me away from the horrible mix for a moment. Luckily the high quality stereo version is on this, which is the only thing i’ll listen to from this one. So much potential wasted on this release. Wow…This one really makes me sad.
Total: 5/10
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