SACD to ISO with Oppo & Pioneer BD players!
- Thread starter Kal Rubinson
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OldAsMono
Senior Member
I should have been more clear... The physical disk would skip when playing. The iso of the same disc was created perfectly without any skips.
The physical SACD disc here plays fine.
It works fine for me.
SACD settings:
Output Mode: PCM
PCM Volume : I start at +6
Log overloads: checked, so I can monitor using the foobar Console (View-->Console). I stop the process as soon as there is an overload, and try the next lowest setting. This is often the fastest since quite a few SACDs can take a +6dB boost
PCM sample rate 88200
DSD2PCM Mode: Multistage (32fp)
do you have any other 'SACD' or "DSD' components installed in foobar, besides foo_input_sacd? Any DSP active in the Foobar 'convert' setting?
OK, I'll check that tonight.
Ressurecting this old thread because through a stroke of luck I was able to pick up one of these machines this week, and I have a few questions.
1) Firmware: my machine clearly has either not been powered on in a long time, or not connected to the internet, because it has a really old firmware - I think the firmware revision is something like BDP10X-50-4226 (current version is BDP10X-83-1226). Will I lose any features if I update the firmware, or gain any? I can't find a firmware revision history anywhere so I want to make sure I look before I leap.
2) DLNA and SACD/DSD: My intention is to use the 103 as a DLNA renderer, and push all my hi-res music to it via jRiver. I set this up tonight and pushing 5.1 FLAC worked fine, but I can't push SACD ISOs the same way, they just won't play. I did some research and I know that the OPPO can't play SACD ISOs from attached storage, but I thought that maybe if I streamed them via DLNA it would just see it as DSD data any play it back. This doesn't seem to be the case, so I converted one of my SACD ISOs to both .dff and .dsf files - pushing both of those to the 103 with jRiver works fine. Do I have this right and SACD ISOs definitely can't be pushed/streamed to the 103 via DLNA?
3) If that is the case, and I need to convert my SACD ISOs to files, it seems like both types have shortcomings. .dff files can be compressed, but don't have tag metadata, and .dsf files are uncompressed but taggable. So for example if I rip the multichannel potion of Steely Dan's Gaucho, I can either have a 1.7GB version that has no tag data (.dff) or a 4.5gb version that I can tag (.dsf). Why can't I have the best of both worlds like FLAC (compressed/tagged)? Anyone else been through this and come up with any solutions? I've ripped my entire collection to SACD ISO so I have hundreds of discs and I want to make sure I make the right decision about how to proceed before I start doing anything. If I rip my entire collection (stereo and multichannel) to .dsf I'm looking at multiple terabytes of data, which I can deal with, but if there's a way for that to be half the size that would be great too..but not at the expense of having 10,000 untaggable tracks. I also really don't want to convert my files to PCM/FLAC etc., the purist in me feels like it should be DSD in/DSD out.
Thanks in advance for any advice, more thoughts and questions as they come to me!
1) Firmware: my machine clearly has either not been powered on in a long time, or not connected to the internet, because it has a really old firmware - I think the firmware revision is something like BDP10X-50-4226 (current version is BDP10X-83-1226). Will I lose any features if I update the firmware, or gain any? I can't find a firmware revision history anywhere so I want to make sure I look before I leap.
2) DLNA and SACD/DSD: My intention is to use the 103 as a DLNA renderer, and push all my hi-res music to it via jRiver. I set this up tonight and pushing 5.1 FLAC worked fine, but I can't push SACD ISOs the same way, they just won't play. I did some research and I know that the OPPO can't play SACD ISOs from attached storage, but I thought that maybe if I streamed them via DLNA it would just see it as DSD data any play it back. This doesn't seem to be the case, so I converted one of my SACD ISOs to both .dff and .dsf files - pushing both of those to the 103 with jRiver works fine. Do I have this right and SACD ISOs definitely can't be pushed/streamed to the 103 via DLNA?
3) If that is the case, and I need to convert my SACD ISOs to files, it seems like both types have shortcomings. .dff files can be compressed, but don't have tag metadata, and .dsf files are uncompressed but taggable. So for example if I rip the multichannel potion of Steely Dan's Gaucho, I can either have a 1.7GB version that has no tag data (.dff) or a 4.5gb version that I can tag (.dsf). Why can't I have the best of both worlds like FLAC (compressed/tagged)? Anyone else been through this and come up with any solutions? I've ripped my entire collection to SACD ISO so I have hundreds of discs and I want to make sure I make the right decision about how to proceed before I start doing anything. If I rip my entire collection (stereo and multichannel) to .dsf I'm looking at multiple terabytes of data, which I can deal with, but if there's a way for that to be half the size that would be great too..but not at the expense of having 10,000 untaggable tracks. I also really don't want to convert my files to PCM/FLAC etc., the purist in me feels like it should be DSD in/DSD out.
Thanks in advance for any advice, more thoughts and questions as they come to me!
1) You'd need to do some web searching to find out the features in each of the Oppo Firmware updates for their players.
Oppo did remove the ability to play ISO files with their disc players in a firmware update along the way.
Don't recall when/which firmware version that was. (They may not have even mentioned it at the time, but Oppo owners noticed the loss of ISO playback).
2) See above
3) Sonore's ISO2DSD program includes the ability to create .DSF files with and without DST compression. I've always created .DSF files without DST compression so I can't say if a .DSF file with DST compression would play on a given disc player or Digital to Analog Converter (DAC). But I do know that there are some cases where the manufacturer specifically says they will only play back uncompressed DSD files. I'd suggest testing this by creating a .DSF with compression intact and trying it with the Oppo. Might work.
As for converting files from DSD to FLAC, I find they sound better leaving them in DSD vs. a conversion to WAV or FLAC PCM. But then again there are listeners that do not use FLAC because they find the native WAV file sounds better. Again, something to experiment with and reach your own conclusions.
Oppo did remove the ability to play ISO files with their disc players in a firmware update along the way.
Don't recall when/which firmware version that was. (They may not have even mentioned it at the time, but Oppo owners noticed the loss of ISO playback).
2) See above
3) Sonore's ISO2DSD program includes the ability to create .DSF files with and without DST compression. I've always created .DSF files without DST compression so I can't say if a .DSF file with DST compression would play on a given disc player or Digital to Analog Converter (DAC). But I do know that there are some cases where the manufacturer specifically says they will only play back uncompressed DSD files. I'd suggest testing this by creating a .DSF with compression intact and trying it with the Oppo. Might work.
As for converting files from DSD to FLAC, I find they sound better leaving them in DSD vs. a conversion to WAV or FLAC PCM. But then again there are listeners that do not use FLAC because they find the native WAV file sounds better. Again, something to experiment with and reach your own conclusions.
That's not right. The DSF and the DFF should be about the same size. Aren't you confusing those with the 4.5Gb ISO?
That's the way it is. I have an archive of the ISOs, but all the playable tracks are now tagged DSFs running to about 20tb at the moment. To save some space, I save only the multichannel DSF if there is one since that's the only one I'd play.
No need to because JRiver can convert on-the-fly as I often do in order to use RoomEQ.
Dave, I just got one this week also and have been playing around with it. Don't know about JRiver, but I've been using Foobar to push the SACD ISO and it works great. If you want to continue with JRiver, then you will probably need to break it out into individual files and I haven't played around with that yet to offer any suggestions. There is a new FW release this week and I saw on another forum that it will still rip the ISO's with that and would expect the player to be more reliable and have fewer issues with the updates applied. But I have yet to put on the newest update.
K
Both ISO and SACD-R support were removed in firmware 50-0323B as I understand it, which is further implemented in the firmware you have on yours - there's a full firmware history at http://www.avsforum.com/forum/149-blu-ray-players/1432162-official-oppo-bdp-103-owner-s-thread.html.
The gist is that the unit gained support for playing back DSD files, but lost support for playing ISO files, either as freestanding files or burned to discs. Given that there's no official way to downgrade, I'd imagine you had might as well go to the most recent firmware, but I'll let others weigh in.
JediJoker
Audio Engineer/Enthusiast
For each album, you can always create a single DFF file with an associated cue sheet. That's what I do. Doesn't work if you want to assemble playlists or shuffle multiple albums, though.
NB: DST compression is not necessarily fully lossless in theory, but in practice, you probably won't hear a difference.
That's been my experience as well. The DSF and DFF files of the same track are roughly the same size.
Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but this is what I've found so far:
Working with the ISO for Steely Dan's Gaucho, the 2003 US stereo/5.1 version. The original ISO is 2.34GB.
I'm using ISO2DSD version 7 for windows, which is apparently the latest version.
I set the channel mode to 'multi', and leave 'Convert DST to DSD' unchecked.
If I chose 'Phillips DSDIFF' as the output format and click 'Execute', the conversion happens in about 10 seconds, and I get a set of .dff files that total about 1.7gb
If I chose 'Sony DSF' as the output format, the conversion is slow, it probably takes a few minutes, and I get a set of .dsf files that total 4.5gb.
Running the conversion again with 'Sony DSF' and 'Convert DST to DSD' checked (just to make sure the tickbox wasn't having the opposite effect or something) produces the same slowness and the same large files. So I believe when I'm converting from ISO to DSF it's decompressing the DST packing regardless of if I want it to or not.
How do I get ISO2DSD to give me the 1.7GB DST compressed .dsf files?
By George, I get the same results. I have not seen anything like this before.
FWIW, Jriver recognizes the DSFs, puts them into an appropriately named and labeled entry.
JRiver puts the DFFs into the "Unassigned" bin.
I was traveling on Thursday & Friday, so I didn't have an opportunity to respond to this thread. Forgive me if it's too late or if it's already been said, but I seem to remember reading here (and other places) that a later Oppo 103 firmware update prevented the ripping of SACDs. If so, I'd investigate which one before jumping to the latest if you ever have any intention of ripping SACDs.
Yeah - just for the record, my current firmware is called:
BDP10X-83-0715
And I can still rip SACD's
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