Silverline DVD-A Winners & Losers

[Franklin]

Just to confirm, the classical stuff is ambient surround, yes?

 

[Simon A]

Just to confirm, the classical stuff is ambient surround, yes?

No, they're made from authentic Quad recordings. The center channel seems to have been made from joined left and right channel. This can easily be fixed by turning of the center or unplugging it. I love the sound of these discs.

 

[4-earredwonder]

No, they're made from authentic Quad recordings. The center channel seems to have been made from joined left and right channel. This can easily be fixed by turning of the center or unplugging it. I love the sound of these discs.

Correct, Simon. They were derived from Vanguard's Four Channel Masters. BTW, thanks for the listings. I just picked up a few more Vanguard Sibelius Discs and the Tchaikovsky Symphony #3.

The Swan Lake is delightful....a great addition if you already don't own it.

Another wonderful addition: https://www.amazon.com/Peter-Wolf-S-Prokofiev/dp/B0001LYGJO with Boris Karloff narrating [Frankenstein meets the WOLFman]! Am spinning it now......simply beautiful!

 

[quicksrt]

Originally Posted by Mike the Fish
Just to confirm, the classical stuff is ambient surround, yes?

No, they're made from authentic Quad recordings. The center channel seems to have been made from joined left and right channel. This can easily be fixed by turning of the center or unplugging it. I love the sound of these discs.

Authentic quad can have only "ambient surround" info. It is the way it is sometimes mixed, and has nothing to do with being fake or authentic quad. I am trying to avoid those kinds of quad mixes for classical myself. Are these nice 4-channel with instruments in rears?

 

[fredblue]

Well, I don't have anything definitive to tell you seeing as I haven't got around to getting any Silverline's on the computer to have a look at the individual channels to try and verify what I'd heard, yet.. but iirc the 5.1 of the "main event" on this one:

..which in Quad is said to be outstanding, with major use of the rear channels in a discrete rather than ambient way.. was a bit of a surround disappointment from what I can recall, with faux/synthesised Centre & LFE and rears pretty much what was going on upfront only v.muted, which was not what I was expecting..

fwiw I haven't got around to doing any Vanguard SQ LPs thru the SQ Surround Master yet (other than The Eleventh House W/Larry Coryell) which is a really nice surround mix.. so no idea what the Vanguard Classical titles do from a discrete point of view in the first place, sorry.. but I do have a few and plan on doing some down the line.. though I suspect the Vanguard Classical titles may be more surround-y than that Silverline Requiem I have somewhere (which I nearly threw in the bin at the time i was so disappointed with it.. I was expecting a 4-corner knock your socks off job like one of the Columbia "Quad spectaculars" or something and it wasn't anything of the sort from what I can remember but I will double check just in case I'm totally misremembering and there is just so much stuff that does happen sometimes so don't take any of this as gospel..! )

 

[Franklin]

It's only a suite, but I really rate this Nutcracker for lots going on in the rears: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Nutcracker...5080&sr=8-3&keywords=DTS+nutcracker+dvd+audio

It's quite a bit more than I was expecting though - maybe cheaper on ebay.

EDIT: There's currently one for under six quid!

 

[fredblue]

It's only a suite, but I really rate this Nutcracker for lots going on in the rears: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Nutcracker...5080&sr=8-3&keywords=DTS+nutcracker+dvd+audio

It's quite a bit more than I was expecting though - maybe cheaper on ebay.

EDIT: There's currently one for under six quid!

It's good but it's not right...
(Silverline thread.. )

 

[Franklin]

Now, Adam. It was in the context of comparison to a Silverline title, and to be very fair I'm not sure you're the one to get strict on staying on topic.

 

[fredblue]

Now, Adam. It was in the context of comparison to a Silverline title, and to be very fair I'm not sure you're the one to get strict on staying on topic.

in the interests of fairness, why make it personal and decry my posting habits? I've not made any such personal comments about you or towards you..

..all I meant was just that DTS title you mentioned is not a Silverline title, that's all I was saying.. you never mentioned it was for comparison purposes to a Silverline Classical 5.1 release.. if you had done so, do you think I would have posted anything to the effect of "but it's not a Silverline" etc..?

as a follow-on it'd be nice to see if any of these Silverline Classical surround titles are the real deal, or just the more typical Silverline fudge..
or am I not allowed to say that either? crikey..

anyway.. back on topic.. I ran the Abravanel Requiem Silverline DVD-A thru Audacity this morning.. and from checking out the 6 x stems it looks how it sounded back when I got it = upmix from Stereo or 5.1 remix imho and not from the old Quad, unless they took the old Quad and rejigged it somewhat.. the back of the Silverline Requiem DVD-A box actually says "remixed and remastered from the original session master tapes" which doesn't indicate anything wrt Quad to me, it sounds more like a possible 5.1 remix from multitrack masters.. but who knows, its a Silverline, so anything is possible imho..

 

[Franklin]

Calm down, Adam. It's not about you, no need for victim mentality.

 

[fredblue]

Calm down, Adam. It's not about you, no need for victim mentality.

Quite calm, thank you. What's it about then?

Please re-read what I posted previously.. also maybe you could consider when you criticise someone for being off topic etc. (something I do not deny btw) remember there is a person behind the username, we're all human.. and please bear in mind that I haven't (knowingly) criticised you for anything here.

meantime.. do you have any Silverline Classical surround titles?

if so, please could you contribute with your findings?

if not, what's the point of all this back and forth?

I've said my bit about the one Silverline Classical surround disc I can remember anything about.. over to you

 

[ubertrout]

in the interests of fairness, why make it personal and decry my posting habits? I've not made any such personal comments about you or towards you..

..all I meant was just that DTS title you mentioned is not a Silverline title, that's all I was saying.. you never mentioned it was for comparison purposes to a Silverline Classical 5.1 release.. if you had done so, do you think I would have posted anything to the effect of "but it's not a Silverline" etc..?

as a follow-on it'd be nice to see if any of these Silverline Classical surround titles are the real deal, or just the more typical Silverline fudge..
or am I not allowed to say that either? crikey..

anyway.. back on topic.. I ran the Abravanel Requiem Silverline DVD-A thru Audacity this morning.. and from checking out the 6 x stems it looks how it sounded back when I got it = upmix from Stereo or 5.1 remix imho and not from the old Quad, unless they took the old Quad and rejigged it somewhat.. the back of the Silverline Requiem DVD-A box actually says "remixed and remastered from the original session master tapes" which doesn't indicate anything wrt Quad to me, it sounds more like a possible 5.1 remix from multitrack masters.. but who knows, its a Silverline, so anything is possible imho..

In fairness all around, some of the Vanguard titles were done in quad, and some (notably the early ones) were not. As I've indicated, the Mahler 2nd is from 1967 and is presumably an upmix into surround. I don't actually have the Berlioz disc because I have the Quad SACD released by Vanguard/Omega, which also has the Mahler 1st on the 2nd disc. The SACD is clearly in quad, but it's worth remembering that the Berlioz is not an 80 minute quadraphonic spectacular - it's mostly in stereo, with the use of the brass bands from the four corners/speakers during the dies irae to heighten the sense of drama and terror and shock for that movement.

I haven't done a detailed check of every Silverline disc. Of the Mahler cycle, 1, 3, 5, & 6 were released in quad at some point, as was the Berlioz requiem. The Sibelius and Brahms discs never had a quad release, but they were recorded inthe later 70s and were presumably recorded to 8 or 16 track tape, so a surround mix should be possible. Source: http://www.surrounddiscography.com/quaddisc/quadclas.htm#V

As I've said before, Silverline was always a bit cagey as to what had a surround source and what didn't and was upmixed. However, given that they did manage to get the master tapes and the transfers were done well, at least, it doesn't strike me as a serious issue given the low prices.

 

[fredblue]

Thanks ubertrout.

Is this the Requiem SACD you own that is from the Vanguard Quad, please?

http://www.sa-cd.net/showtitle/67

 

[fredblue]

..checking it all out now (Berlioz Requiem Silverline DVD-A) and trumpet blasts (albeit comparatively muted in the rears) are coming from all 4 corners in the dies irae on trk 2 of the Silverline Berlioz Requiem DVD-A.. and some of them seem to be unique brass parts in the rears relative to the front channels.. though it is a pain with the (unnecessary imho, if this is the Quad) centre channel, which is distracting me from the 4 main channels no end!

maybe I was expecting too much from the Quad.. hmm

ok, so on a general Qn., personally I cannot get enough of super (or even uber ) discrete surround music.. so if there are any Silverline Classic Surround DVD-A/DualDiscs you ubertrout or any of you here have that are real discrete 4-corner mixes throughout, please let me know (as I will prioritise those at this time)..?

Thank you!

 

[Franklin]

.. also maybe you could consider when you criticise someone for being off topic etc. (something I do not deny btw) remember there is a person behind the username, we're all human..

Adam, you were saying that I was off topic. I was saying that you're not really in a place to take umbrage with that. Nothing personal, other than gently pointing out that as you do so often yourself, I don't think you're the one to point it out to me. Then as I saw it you threw a bit of a hissy fit for being called out (and mistakenly too, in my opinion). I've seen you come down harshly on a few people recently, but a gentle defence to you and it gets heated. Also, if you read my previous post that you criticised that was directly under yours it was a response to the mix of the Silverline Nutcracker as referenced in your post that was above mine where I responded to it. You're welcome to the last word, I'm happy to move on.

 

[fredblue]

Adam, you were saying that I was off topic. I was saying that you're not really in a place to take umbrage with that. Nothing personal, other than gently pointing out that as you do so often yourself, I don't think you're the one to point it out to me. Then as I saw it you threw a bit of a hissy fit for being called out (and mistakenly too, in my opinion). I've seen you come down harshly on a few people recently, but a gentle defence to you and it gets heated. Also, if you read my previous post that you criticised that was directly under yours it was a response to the mix of the Silverline Nutcracker as referenced in your post that was above mine where I responded to it. You're welcome to the last word, I'm happy to move on.

Oh Mike.. this is silly..

..please lets just move on, yes..

 

[4-earredwonder]

In fairness all around, some of the Vanguard titles were done in quad, and some (notably the early ones) were not. As I've indicated, the Mahler 2nd is from 1967 and is presumably an upmix into surround. I don't actually have the Berlioz disc because I have the Quad SACD released by Vanguard/Omega, which also has the Mahler 1st on the 2nd disc. The SACD is clearly in quad, but it's worth remembering that the Berlioz is not an 80 minute quadraphonic spectacular - it's mostly in stereo, with the use of the brass bands from the four corners/speakers during the dies irae to heighten the sense of drama and terror and shock for that movement.

I haven't done a detailed check of every Silverline disc. Of the Mahler cycle, 1, 3, 5, & 6 were released in quad at some point, as was the Berlioz requiem. The Sibelius and Brahms discs never had a quad release, but they were recorded inthe later 70s and were presumably recorded to 8 or 16 track tape, so a surround mix should be possible. Source: http://www.surrounddiscography.com/quaddisc/quadclas.htm#V

As I've said before, Silverline was always a bit cagey as to what had a surround source and what didn't and was upmixed. However, given that they did manage to get the master tapes and the transfers were done well, at least, it doesn't strike me as a serious issue given the low prices.

Regarding Abravanel's Sibelius Cycle, I am currently listening to Symphonies 1 & 4 and they certainly don't sound like upmixes to me. Silverline probably accessed the multis and created their own remix.

What MAY interest those craving discrete 5.1 is this new Classical SAMPLER released by MDG and according to AmazonUS is now shipping: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...tailpage_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1&tag=acleint-20

Simon first brought this to my attention awhile back and I was able to procure it for :yikes $5.98! Thanks (again) Simon.

 

[ubertrout]

Thanks ubertrout.

Is this the Requiem SACD you own that is from the Vanguard Quad, please?

http://www.sa-cd.net/showtitle/67

I have the Vanguard/Artemis reissue, actually (http://www.sa-cd.net/showtitle/1986), not the Vanguard/Omega release I originally said I have. The Omega release (which you linked to - the pictured release in your profile is the Artemis release though) had problems with the mastering, which was fixed in the Artemis release. As you likely know in addition to the Silverline release Classic Records made this release their only foray into quad, meaning that this recording has had four seperately mastered quad releases - surely that must be a record.

I'm travelling now, but I'm motivated to do some listenign when I get home. I'll confess that I might not have the best ear for discrete v. upmix with these discs, as the surround is going to be mostly ambient in all but the Berlioz regardless - the Mahler symphonies have more going on, and I'd assume that all but 2 and 4 are from quad sources (I tested the 2nd at one point and can say that there's no use of the discrete channels for the offstage instruments in the final movement.

 

[himey]

Not sure I would put Blue Oyster Cult - A Long Day’s Night in the "titles that shine" category, mix wise, but I still appreciate the thread and the conversation. I have way too many poor Silverline discs so the bar may be set pretty low which is understandable.

 

[4-earredwonder]

Not sure I would put Blue Oyster Cult - A Long Day’s Night in the "titles that shine" category, mix wise, but I still appreciate the thread and the conversation. I have way too many poor Silverline discs so the bar may be set pretty low which is understandable.

MOST of the Silverline DVD~A 5.1 titles licensed from the Sanctuary Records label were UPSAMPLED stereo and IMO, sound MUCH improved when one plays the MLP DVD~A stereo mix instead. Of course, the Live From The Front Row series (with few exceptions) probably did more to harm the label's reputation than all others combined. Actually, the Pat Benatar and Gerry Rafferty Front Row discs sound GREAT in DVD~A stereo. At least they're true hi res.