HiRez Poll Sly and the Family Stone - GREATEST HITS [SACD]

[--Moe--]

I loved this title back in my High School days
My initial copy was an 8-Track tape which I literally wore out playing on my car stereo (no home system yet).

With great anticipation I received the AF Quad SACD last Saturday.

CALL 119 ! !
Somebody stole all the Bass from this Quad-mix SACD !! Where's the low end ??
I even tried turning the Bass EQ knob all the way up on the home surround system, and I was still left wanting ...

I am not expecting BT Express like Thunderously Thumping bass notes *.
But hey, this is a Funk / Soul record.
But hey, this was mixed & mastered for Quad right? Not AM Radio?
Shouldn't the Quad Authors have expected the target playback systems to have better that average full range speakers?

I like DBX stuff, I have/use 1BX, 223, 224X, 400X.
<thinking to myself> should I invest in a DBX 120X to generate some low end for this one release ?
I could slip one in between the OPPO Main L/R analog outputs and the Yamaha Receiver.

* which my home surround system delivers easily if the content is there, with Bass knob set at +0.

 

[steelydave]

I found the same thing with this release. Steve Hoffman's stereo masterings are almost always a bit bass-shy - it's like they're aimed at the chin-stroking armchair type of listener rather than the visceral enjoyment type of listener. It seems like with this release he felt compelled to massage the tonality of the quad mixes so they matched the mono "hit mixes" (as he likes to call them) on the stereo layer. I have the Q8 of this title and while it's not the kind of bass that's going to cause complaints from the neighbours, there was certainly more than what ended up on the AF release.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

I found the same thing with this release. Steve Hoffman's stereo masterings are almost always a bit bass-shy - it's like they're aimed at the chin-stroking armchair type of listener rather than the visceral enjoyment type of listener. It seems like with this release he felt compelled to massage the tonality of the quad mixes so they matched the mono "hit mixes" (as he likes to call them) on the stereo layer. I have the Q8 of this title and while it's not the kind of bass that's going to cause complaints from the neighbours, there was certainly more than what ended up on the AF release.

Been awhile, but yea, I remember it sounding pretty thin to me also Dave.

 

[Circular Vibes]

I have to admit that I have only played this disc twice and only the quad mix. I missed out on the replacement that I thnk fixed an issue in the mono mix? I couldn't put my finger on what was wrong and now I realise my old worn quad LP may not have the separation of the SACD but it sure seems to kick butt even after all the plays I put on it. I will one day attempt to get the Japanese issue with diferent artwork to see how it is compared to my old US Columbia LP. That said, I won't give up any of my AF SACDs including this one. This is where EQ can certainly come in handy if used judiciusly.

 

[GOS]

Revisiting this title, after a LONG time. Back in the day, I somehow thought this mix was lacking in fidelity. Today, I find it just wonderful. Plenty of bass and heft here. I upped my vote from 8 to a 9.

 

[quicksrt]

Sometimes a Greatest Hits album can really stand out as an artists' best album. And even become iconic with the right sequencing, exclusive hit or two, and vibrant and effective album cover art. This one checks all of the boxes.

Then to get the quad mix version on SACD is just a TKO for me.

 

[Monkish]

A couple of recent replies to this thread reminded me that I never threw my vote into the ring, so here goes.

I don't remember who mentioned, in another thread, that this mix sounds like four independent mono channels battling each other (maybe @steelydave ?) ... but whoever it was, I absolutely agree. This mix doesn't hang together for me at *all* -- there's no cohesion to my ears.

Combine that with the rather, um, eccentric channel assignments on many of the tunes, as well as fidelity issues, and I rank this as one of the most disappointing surround purchases I've ever made (as far as the legendary quality of the music leading me to expect a much more satisfying surround experience).

I gave this one every chance over the course of a year or so, but I finally sold it. It's a 6 for me. I really wish someone would tackle a 5.1 mix of the Stand! album (plus the affiliated singles), but I fear that's probably a pipe dream at this point).

 

[musicmemorabiliashoppellc]

A couple of recent replies to this thread reminded me that I never threw my vote into the ring, so here goes.

I don't remember who mentioned, in another thread, that this mix sounds like four independent mono channels battling each other (maybe @steelydave ?) ... but whoever it was, I absolutely agree. This mix doesn't hang together for me at *all* -- there's no cohesion to my ears.

Combine that with the rather, um, eccentric channel assignments on many of the tunes, as well as fidelity issues, and I rank this as one of the most disappointing surround purchases I've ever made (as far as the legendary quality of the music leading me to expect a much more satisfying surround experience).

I gave this one every chance over the course of a year or so, but I finally sold it. It's a 6 for me. I really wish someone would tackle a 5.1 mix of the Stand! album (plus the affiliated singles), but I fear that's probably a pipe dream at this point).

Any review on the Best of Bread? Would like to know what you think

 

[uffeolby]

Any review on the Best of Bread? Would like to know what you think

Clearly one of my favorites, if not the favorite, among my DV quad releases. Both SQ and mix are really excellent, first half of the album is also very, very good songs. When I bought it I had only heard one song by them before, so I was really surprised that I loved the musical content as much as I do.

 

[Q-Eight]

I don't remember who mentioned, in another thread, that this mix sounds like four independent mono channels battling each other (maybe @steelydave ?) ... but whoever it was, I absolutely agree. This mix doesn't hang together for me at *all* -- there's no cohesion to my ears.

Combine that with the rather, um, eccentric channel assignments on many of the tunes, as well as fidelity issues, and I rank this as one of the most disappointing surround purchases I've ever made (as far as the legendary quality of the music leading me to expect a much more satisfying surround experience).

It is a bit polarizing, isn't it? Some songs have a GREAT, aggressive mix: "Dance to the Music", "Thank You falletinme", "Everyday People". But then you'll have some really weird mixing choices like "Stand", "You can make it if you Try", "Sing a simple song". Big bone of contention with me is the complete lack of the organ on "I wanna take you Higher". It *IS* on the multitrack!! It's a 1969 song and is on 16-track. They really cocked it up. I firmly believe they forgot to move that slider in the Front Left channel, as that channel is nearly dead for the whole song. If the organ were there, it would make sense.

It can take you to heaven, and then send you to hell several times over the course of a half-hour.

Multitracks are out there. I've recently got my claws into a legit 8-track of "Dance to the Music" and it is NOT what I expected and definitely explains the Quad mix.

 

[ar surround]

Multitracks are out there. I've recently got my claws into a legit 8-track of "Dance to the Music" and it is NOT what I expected and definitely explains the Quad mix.

Now you’ve really caught my interest, Q-Eight. What did you find?

 

[J. PUPSTER]

It is a bit polarizing, isn't it? Some songs have a GREAT, aggressive mix: "Dance to the Music", "Thank You falletinme", "Everyday People". But then you'll have some really weird mixing choices like "Stand", "You can make it if you Try", "Sing a simple song". Big bone of contention with me is the complete lack of the organ on "I wanna take you Higher". It *IS* on the multitrack!! It's a 1969 song and is on 16-track. They really cocked it up. I firmly believe they forgot to move that slider in the Front Left channel, as that channel is nearly dead for the whole song. If the organ were there, it would make sense.

It can take you to heaven, and then send you to hell several times over the course of a half-hour.

Multitracks are out there. I've recently got my claws into a legit 8-track of "Dance to the Music" and it is NOT what I expected and definitely explains the Quad mix.

Need to find a stereo version in my stuff to listen for the missing organ; and why no stereo on this one- mono instead???

 

[Imbobman]

Clearly one of my favorites, if not the favorite, among my DV quad releases. Both SQ and mix are really excellent, first half of the album is also very, very good songs. When I bought it I had only heard one song by them before, so I was really surprised that I loved the musical content as much as I do.

I believe the Best of Bread was on the Audio Fidelity lable not DV.

 

[steelydave]

Kind of interestingly (maybe just to me) early pressings of the quad LP credited Jim Reeves and Don Young for the quad mix, and then the credit was changed to Al Lawrence and Larry Keyes - there was some discussion of this around the time of the SACD release in the LP/Q8 poll thread, but it doesn't seem like there are two distinct mixes.




It would be interesting to know (and even more interesting to hear) if there's another shelved mix of the Greatest Hits album, or if it was just a crediting mix-up that was rectified. We do know from the Robin reels that there seem to be two (or more) quad mixes of several early Columbia/Epic releases, including Laura Nyro, Blood, Sweat & Tears, and Johnny Winter, so it's entirely possible there were two mixes done of this album.

 

[Q-Eight]

Kind of interestingly (maybe just to me) early pressings of the quad LP credited Jim Reeves and Don Young for the quad mix, and then the credit was changed to Al Lawrence and Larry Keyes - there was some discussion of this around the time of the SACD release in the LP/Q8 poll thread, but it doesn't seem like there are two distinct mixes.


View attachment 66109

It would be interesting to know (and even more interesting to hear) if there's another shelved mix of the Greatest Hits album, or if it was just a crediting mix-up that was rectified. We do know from the Robin reels that there seem to be two (or more) quad mixes of several early Columbia/Epic releases, including Laura Nyro, Blood, Sweat & Tears, and Johnny Winter, so it's entirely possible there were two mixes done of this album.

And hasn't it been said before that there seem to be TWO SQ versions? One that's trying it's best to go four-corner and another that's not so aggressive?
The Robin Reel of Greatest Hits actually is different in a few notable parts: one that springs to mind is the drum roll that kicks off "Stand!". That roll around the room is NOT present on the 'Reel version.

 

[Q-Eight]

Now you’ve really caught my interest, Q-Eight. What did you find?

Well, it's an 8-track multi.... something CBS (I feel) rarely dipped into when mixing to Quad. But since it's the Greatest Hits, they had to include it.
First thing that I never would've thought is that the horns were recorded LIVE during the band tracking session. Plenty of other instruments leaking into the horn mics, specifically the first take of the guitar parts that are still in the Quad and Stereo versions as a bit of a ghost. Very clearly heard on the horn track. Ditto organ and bass.

I'm going to say the original tracking session was Drums, Bass, organ, horns and a guitar part. That original guitar track got wiped and replaced, leaving only it's ghost leakage on the other tracks.

New guitar track and fuzz bass share one track. This was not too surprising since I think Al Kooper said this was also done on "I can't Quit her" which was also 8-track. Not the first time I've heard of engineers doing this since both instruments rarely occupy the same frequency space. So it's relatively easy to put them both on one track and manipulate them later. There's also maybe an alto sax or clarinet part through-out on this same track. Also lots of tambourine ECHO. This seems to have become the multi-purpose overdub track.
I suspect there was LOTS of bouncing to get this song onto 8 tracks.

Tambourine is an overdub. An entire track is dedicated to tambourine. Very, very light amount of guitar leakage picked up, probably from a very loud headset.

95% of vocals are all on one track. The handclap overdub track also feature a secondary vocal, just the group shouting "Dance to the Music" four times during the intro, and then all the way to the end following the break.

I did a remix of sorts that puts the fuzz, guitar, and clarinet in Front Left, Fender Bass and Organ in Front Right and main vocals up the middle.
Out back, I put drums hard Back Right, Tambourine Hard Back Left. Handclap, backup vocals and Horns Back Center. I know you couldn't do this in SQ, but, I'm notoriously vocal about my dislike of SQ and since I have the multi, this is how I would have mixed it. To my ears, it sounds way better with the percussives in stereo in the back, horns behind you, vocals mostly up the middle, stereo bass in front and still an instrument in each front corner.

 

[quicksrt]

Well, it's an 8-track multi.... something CBS (I feel) rarely dipped into when mixing to Quad. But since it's the Greatest Hits, they had to include it.
First thing that I never would've thought is that the horns were recorded LIVE during the band tracking session. Plenty of other instruments leaking into the horn mics, specifically the first take of the guitar parts that are still in the Quad and Stereo versions as a bit of a ghost. Very clearly heard on the horn track. Ditto organ and bass.

I'm going to say the original tracking session was Drums, Bass, organ, horns and a guitar part. That original guitar track got wiped and replaced, leaving only it's ghost leakage on the other tracks.

New guitar track and fuzz bass share one track. This was not too surprising since I think Al Kooper said this was also done on "I can't Quit her" which was also 8-track. Not the first time I've heard of engineers doing this since both instruments rarely occupy the same frequency space. So it's relatively easy to put them both on one track and manipulate them later. There's also maybe an alto sax or clarinet part through-out on this same track. Also lots of tambourine ECHO. This seems to have become the multi-purpose overdub track.
I suspect there was LOTS of bouncing to get this song onto 8 tracks.

Tambourine is an overdub. An entire track is dedicated to tambourine. Very, very light amount of guitar leakage picked up, probably from a very loud headset.

95% of vocals are all on one track. The handclap overdub track also feature a secondary vocal, just the group shouting "Dance to the Music" four times during the intro, and then all the way to the end following the break.

I did a remix of sorts that puts the fuzz, guitar, and clarinet in Front Left, Fender Bass and Organ in Front Right and main vocals up the middle.
Out back, I put drums hard Back Right, Tambourine Hard Back Left. Handclap, backup vocals and Horns Back Center. I know you couldn't do this in SQ, but, I'm notoriously vocal about my dislike of SQ and since I have the multi, this is how I would have mixed it. To my ears, it sounds way better with the percussives in stereo in the back, horns behind you, vocals mostly up the middle, stereo bass in front and still an instrument in each front corner.

Your mix sound very good. But, I'm generally of the thought that bass and drums should be together, or close to together. And horns upfront for a band like this. But from your description of the tracks, bass cannot be placed in back unless guitar is also? I would liked to see (or hear I mean) what horns in front sound like, bass in back right, clarinet in back with bass, drums back left and backing vocals back center.. So front gets guitar, horns, organ and vocals. Back gets drums, bass, tamborine, backup vocals and handclaps. No?

 

[wrat]

great content,good mix,sonics are good enough

 

[humprof]

Since the quad version of There's A Riot Goin' On exists only as a rumor, I'm posting two good 50th anniversary pieces about it here. (At least a couple of tracks made it onto Greatest Hits, right?)
https://www.npr.org/2021/11/29/1059...-family-stones-theres-a-riot-goin-on-turns-50https://www.theguardian.com/music/2...ars-on-sly-stones-theres-a-riot-goin-on-at-50

 

[modwerks]

I always thought Sly and his Family had a good audible bass player. And it is there on the Hits album. Maybe I need to relisten and reevaluate this disc and knock it down a couple notches as well if they failed to mix in any bass, gee.

Yeah, his name is Larry f'ing Graham! Lol...