Sony 360 vs Dolby Atmos on Apple Music

[J_davis]

Is there a way to tell on Apple if a mix was done in Sony 360 vs Atmos? I’ve only ever seen immersive mixes labeled as Atmos

 

[himey]

Is there a way to tell on Apple if a mix was done in Sony 360 vs Atmos? I’ve only ever seen immersive mixes labeled as Atmos

The Apple mixes are "Dolby Audio", not 360. Atmos are Atmos. 2D vs 3D.

 

[J_davis]

The Apple mixes are "Dolby Audio", not 360. Atmos are Atmos. 2D vs 3D.

All of the spatial mixes ive seen on Apple Music are labeled as Dolby Atmos, am i missing something? Im asking if Sony 360 mixes can even get added to Apple Music because ive never seen any. But ive plenty of Sony releases with the Dolby Atmos label

 

[himey]

All of the spatial mixes ive seen on Apple Music are labeled as Dolby Atmos, am i missing something? Im asking if Sony 360 mixes can even get added to Apple Music because ive never seen any. But ive plenty of Sony releases with the Dolby Atmos label

Apples version of Sony 360 is called Dolby AUDIO (not dolby atmos).

Here is the thread for more info.

 

[Cheezmo]

Apples version of Sony 360 is called Dolby AUDIO (not dolby atmos).

Here is the thread for more info.

That is not a fair description. Dolby Audio is Apple & Dolby's term for traditional 4.0 and 5.1 releases on Apple Music (I'm sure Dolby will be using it elsewhere over time). Not related to Sony 360 at all.

Many Sony 360 releases on Tidal or wherever they are are old Quad mixes (4.0). And when they have showed up on Apple they are Dolby Audio as that is Apple's discrete 4.0 format of choice.

 

[himey]

That is not a fair description. Dolby Audio is Apple & Dolby's term for traditional 4.0 and 5.1 releases on Apple Music (I'm sure Dolby will be using it elsewhere over time). Not related to Sony 360 at all.

Many Sony 360 releases on Tidal or wherever they are are old Quad mixes (4.0). And when they have showed up on Apple they are Dolby Audio as that is Apple's discrete 4.0 format of choice.

They are different formats of 2D audio. Just because the Apple version is more compatible it is still basically the same thing. I stand by what I said.

 

[Cheezmo]

They are different formats of 2D audio. Just because the Apple version is more compatible it is still basically the same thing. I stand by what I said.

Dolby Audio is discrete 5.1. Sony RA 360 is their object based equivalent to Dolby Atmos.

Completely different things. Just as Dolby Audio and Dolby Atmos are completely different things. Saying that Dolby Audio is Apple's version of Sony RA360 is very misleading.

 

[himey]

Dolby Audio is discrete 5.1. Sony RA 360 is their object based equivalent to Dolby Atmos.

Completely different things.

Have you heard a decoded 360 mix? Do you think it doesn't sound right or something?

 

[Cheezmo]

Have you heard a decoded 360 mix? Do you think it doesn't sound right or something?

No, I haven't. I'm sure it sounds as good as Dolby Atmos through headphones, etc.

But, Dolby Atmos and RA360 are roughly equivalent object based 3D surround formats. 360 Reality Audio | So Immersive. So Real. | Sony US sure sounds the same as a description of headphone based Dolby Atmos.

Dolby Audio is a discrete 5.1 format that does not rely on acoustic tricks from headphones. (Basically they renamed AC3).

I'm not sure what the confusion is other than Sony chose to release some old quad releases in RA360. Just because they did that doesn't make RA360 and Dolby Audio the same thing.

 

[himey]

No, I haven't. I'm sure it sounds as good as Dolby Atmos through headphones, etc.

But, Dolby Atmos and RA360 are roughly equivalent object based 3D surround formats. 360 Reality Audio | So Immersive. So Real. | Sony US sure sounds the same as a description of headphone based Dolby Atmos.

Dolby Audio is a discrete 5.1 format that does not rely on acoustic tricks from headphones. (Basically they renamed AC3).

I'm not sure what the confusion is other than Sony chose to release some old quad releases in RA360. Just because they did that doesn't make RA360 and Dolby Audio the same thing.

The actual format, MPEG-H, doesn't use "acoustic tricks from headphones," it uses metadata. It's designed not only for headphones, but for full speaker layouts as well. I was under the impression, Tidal was using 360 for its 2D releases and Atmos for its 3D releases. Apple uses Dolby Audio for its 2D releases and Atmos for 3D. Hopefully, 360 audio will have more receivers supporting the format, rather than the headphone implementation. Apple has the advantage because the format is already decoded in hardware and is ready to go now.

 

[Cheezmo]

The actual format, MPEG-H, doesn't use "acoustic tricks from headphones," it uses metadata. It's designed not only for headphones, but for full speaker layouts as well. I was under the impression, Tidal was using 360 for its 2D releases and Atmos for its 3D releases. Apple uses Dolby Audio for its 2D releases and Atmos for 3D. Hopefully, 360 audio will have more receivers supporting the format, rather than the headphone implementation. Apple has the advantage because the format is already decoded in hardware and is ready to go now.

I can't disagree with anything there. Just that I have no knowledge of Sony only giving Tidal 2D audio in the RA360 format which would be weird but certainly possible (so MPEG-H with no metadata?). Seems like they would be promoting their format with object based releases to try to compete with Dolby Atmos.

Anyway, I think we are in agreement with what the formats support. RA360 & Dolby Audio are roughly equivalent a discrete base with object based metadata. Dolby Audio is limited to 5.1 with no object based metadata.

What the studios/streaming services decide to release in what format is another issue.

 

[AYanguas]

The actual format, MPEG-H, doesn't use "acoustic tricks from headphones," it uses metadata. It's designed not only for headphones, but for full speaker layouts as well. I was under the impression, Tidal was using 360 for its 2D releases and Atmos for its 3D releases. Apple uses Dolby Audio for its 2D releases and Atmos for 3D. Hopefully, 360 audio will have more receivers supporting the format, rather than the headphone implementation. Apple has the advantage because the format is already decoded in hardware and is ready to go now.

TIDAL format for his Sony 360RA is MPEG-H 3D Audio with 12 channels (7.1.4).

There are albums/tracks that contain either:

4 objects (Quad transcription).
6 objects (5.1)
10 objects

The Tidal app player is supposed to "downmix" 360RA to 2 channels (binaural) to be listened with headphones.

If the AVR does not support decoding of 360RA (MPEG-H), we cannot listen in a Home Cinema with discrete speakers.

Even if the AVR supports MPEG-H decoding, we need also the player to recognize MPEG-H and deliver hdmi bitstream from the MPEG-H source. Almost none at present.

 

[quicksrt]

Tidal was using 360 for its 2D releases and Atmos for its 3D releases. Apple uses Dolby Audio for its 2D releases and Atmos for 3D. Hopefully

Is 2D and 3D a new way of describing other common (same old) surround formats, or is this something new? I've never heard this described this way.

 

[himey]

Is 2D and 3D a new way of describing other common (same old) surround formats, or is this something new? I've never heard this described this way.

I have. Kraftwerk 3D is one reference. Before immersive and spatial became the buzz words, 3D was used more.

 

[perzon57]

I have. Kraftwerk 3D is one reference. Before immersive and spatial became the buzz words, 3D was used more.

I thought it was named Kraftwerk 3D because the video is in 3D, but what do I know.

 

[himey]

I thought it was named Kraftwerk 3D because the video is in 3D, but what do I know.

You are probably right. If I'm the only person to use 3D as an audio reference that is fine. Hopefully it doesn't confuse too many people. I will continue to use 3D, immersive, and spatial interchangeably.

 

[perzon57]

You are probably right. If I'm the only person to use 3D as an audio reference that is fine. Hopefully it doesn't confuse too many people. I will continue to use 3D, immersive, and spatial interchangeably.

I use only Atmos as that's what my AVC are telling me I'm listening to, even if some mixes are more like 5.1.

 

[himey]

I use only Atmos as that's what my AVC are telling me I'm listening to, even if some mixes are more like 5.1.

I get bored using the same term to describe something over and over. For standard setups with no height channels I will use, "2d", "surround sound", "5.1", "quad" ect. For systems with the third dimension of height channels, I will use "3D", "spatial", "immersive" and "Atmos". Also maybe 5.1.2 or 7.1.4 if I really want to get specific. So what you are saying is that some Atmos mixes sound more 2D like than 3D?

 

[perzon57]

I get bored using the same term to describe something over and over. For standard setups with no height channels I will use, "2d", "surround sound", "5.1", "quad" ect. For systems with the third dimension of height channels, I will use "3D", "spatial", "immersive" and "Atmos". Also maybe 5.1.2 or 7.1.4 if I really want to get specific. So what you are saying is that some Atmos mixes sound more 2D like than 3D?

YES!

 

[AYanguas]

Is 2D and 3D a new way of describing other common (same old) surround formats, or is this something new? I've never heard this described this way.

A brief search on internet has showed me that, perhaps, the term 2D vs 3D for sound was used for gaming. Apart from the number of channels, either floor plane or heights, the 2D sound is when the sound is more static, flat, and does not follow the video scene (movement and or proximity). While 3D refers to sound changing according to proximity and/or movement of the video scene.

I may be wrong, but I have read something related to that.

Now, the immersive sound for music (beyond surround 5.1, 7.1) has been called 3D. And to differentiate from the 'only floor' speakers the old surround would be called 2D, like using a single floor plane level.

I think it does not matter where the terms come from, BUT that we all understand the same thing when we use the terms.