DVD/DTS Poll Springsteen, Bruce - Devils And Dust [DD DualDisc]

[Chris Gerhard]

The song n.4 "Long time comin'" seems to suffer of Dynamic Range Compensation. On the chorus, when the band is more prominent, there's a lowering in the sound volume.
Does this happens also on your editions? It sounds really like a mix (or encoding) fault.

I couldn't recreate the problem with the DD 5.1 mix on the US DualDisc.

Chris

 

[vonwegen]

Nick Didia= money in my pocket not spent!

Agreed Terrible shame, as I like the songs and the stereo mix.

Robert
www.myspace.com/jetblackfactory

 

[fredblue]

Well, I've given this a fair crack of the whip, I've read a lot about what people have to say about it, it's pretty much universally panned from a surround mix perspective, so I thought I'd really take the time to analyse the mix and here's my surround mix observations, specifically as to what there actually is in the rears, with a rather interesting outcome..

- Track 1 = muted strings in the rears,
- Track 2 = muted synth effects in the rears towards the very end of the song,
- Track 3 = muted but rather nice strings all the way through,
- Track 4 = muted backing vocals & acoustic guitar in the rears,
- Track 5 = muted synth in the rears (Black Cowboys),
- Track 6 = a muted lone tambourine in the rears (Maria's Bed),
- Track 7 = muted strings in rears (Silver Palomino),
- Track 8 = muted backing vocals in rears (Jesus Was An Only Son),
- Track 9 = the most horrid distortion in front L&R (something somewhere was seriously overdriven was my first thought but now I'm not sure.. more on that in a minute.. this is the one and only song with absolutely nothing in the rears..),
- Track 10 = muted synth horn & strings in the rears (may be the real thing but its hard to tell even when cranked!),
- Track 11 = muted backing vocals in the rears,
- Track 12 = muted strings.

So.. in a nutshell, the rears are always muted.. its not as if there's nothing in the rears, there's stuff going on there all the time I wonder if something went awry with the authoring of this?

Why? Well, not only is the 5.1 weird/lacking on first listen but here's what I've found -
- the LFE level is way too high,
- front L&R are way too loud too (so they distort at times),
- the rears and the centre channel DO have things happening in them.. the centre has lead vocals on every song right there in the centre.. but centre and rears are so seriously muted compared to the crazy loud fronts & sub you'd never know.

Cai made a good point here in this thread all those years back = raise the rears..

..but I'd go further,
- if you boost the rears and centre to just below their absolute max (+8db on my AVR),
- drop the volume on front L&R and sub approx 50% from where you have them calibrated (so they're set -4db on my AVR, which equates to 12db lower than my centre and rears)..
.. and you suddenly get a rather nice surround mix.

Track 9 is the one anomaly, which I believe suffered the biggest authoring goof on the whole disc, distortion in front L&R plus no rear activity at all when all 11 other tracks have rear channel info, too much of a coincidence?

Anyhoo.. Maybe give it a try if you have this DualDisc, is all I'm saying.

I'm certainly enjoying it a lot more now in surround, with just a bit of (rather extreme volume level, admittedly) tweaking

 

[bossfan]

Well, I happen to be a Springsteen fanatic. In my mind this guy can do no wrong so anything he does I pretty much love. Devils and Dust is a remarkable album for its lyrics. I consider Springsteen much in the same light as Dylan and other great songwriters of their time. But when it comes to 5.1, Springsteen appears to have hardly embraced the media. However, I watched the DVD half of the Seeger sessions dual disc today and loved it. Dolby digital I guess but done very well. The best surround sound Springsteen has done is out of the Darkness boxed set where he and the band reproduce the entire album live, in a hall on the New Jersey boardwalk. It's just the band, no audience, playing the entire album. Great video, great sound. It's just Dolby Digital but done real well. I hope he does his next boxed set with a real 5.1 sound, even DTS... Maybe The River.

 

[LizardKing]

Well, I've given this a fair crack of the whip, I've read a lot about what people have to say about it, it's pretty much universally panned from a surround mix perspective, so I thought I'd really take the time to analyse the mix and here's my surround mix observations, specifically as to what there actually is in the rears, with a rather interesting outcome..

- Track 1 = muted strings in the rears,
- Track 2 = muted synth effects in the rears towards the very end of the song,
- Track 3 = muted but rather nice strings all the way through,
- Track 4 = muted backing vocals & acoustic guitar in the rears,
- Track 5 = muted synth in the rears (Black Cowboys),
- Track 6 = a muted lone tambourine in the rears (Maria's Bed),
- Track 7 = muted strings in rears (Silver Palomino),
- Track 8 = muted backing vocals in rears (Jesus Was An Only Son),
- Track 9 = the most horrid distortion in front L&R (something somewhere was seriously overdriven was my first thought but now I'm not sure.. more on that in a minute.. this is the one and only song with absolutely nothing in the rears..),
- Track 10 = muted synth horn & strings in the rears (may be the real thing but its hard to tell even when cranked!),
- Track 11 = muted backing vocals in the rears,
- Track 12 = muted strings.

So.. in a nutshell, the rears are always muted.. its not as if there's nothing in the rears, there's stuff going on there all the time I wonder if something went awry with the authoring of this?

Why? Well, not only is the 5.1 weird/lacking on first listen but here's what I've found -
- the LFE level is way too high,
- front L&R are way too loud too (so they distort at times),
- the rears and the centre channel DO have things happening in them.. the centre has lead vocals on every song right there in the centre.. but centre and rears are so seriously muted compared to the crazy loud fronts & sub you'd never know.

Cai made a good point here in this thread all those years back = raise the rears..

..but I'd go further,
- if you boost the rears and centre to just below their absolute max (+8db on my AVR),
- drop the volume on front L&R and sub approx 50% from where you have them calibrated (so they're set -4db on my AVR, which equates to 12db lower than my centre and rears)..
.. and you suddenly get a rather nice surround mix.

Track 9 is the one anomaly, which I believe suffered the biggest authoring goof on the whole disc, distortion in front L&R plus no rear activity at all when all 11 other tracks have rear channel info, too much of a coincidence?

Anyhoo.. Maybe give it a try if you have this DualDisc, is all I'm saying.

I'm certainly enjoying it a lot more now in surround, with just a bit of (rather extreme volume level, admittedly) tweaking

Hmmm - one for the Steelydave treatment me-thinks???

 

[fredblue]

Hmmm - one for the Steelydave treatment me-thinks???

DEFFO! Steelydave to the rescue...!!!!

 

[winopener]

Will suggest for a corrrectly repurposing of D&D to start from the stereo CD... unless the USA release has a un-distorted AC3 track (European release is clipped in several spots on the fronts) and add the AC3 center/rears to taste.

 

[zabble]

Hmm. I might have to finally open this one up and give it a spin.

 

[LizardKing]

Will suggest for a corrrectly repurposing of D&D to start from the stereo CD... unless the USA release has a un-distorted AC3 track (European release is clipped in several spots on the fronts) and add the AC3 center/rears to taste.

FYI - There is a Stereo PCM track on the DVD side of the Dualdisc which may be marginally better.

 

[fredblue]

Did anybody here ever give it a go using my adjustments as rough guide on how to get something halfway decent a surround mix out of this one?

"as is" I would give this a "4".. rejigged a "6".. maybe give it a try adjusting the individual channel levels, if you haven't already?

 

[MrSmithers]

I decided to take the @fredblue 2015 challenge! Found this title for cheap as chips although I'm not exactly sure which version it is? On the order it said DualDisc but the version I got was just a CD/DVD? I only say that because there isn't a great deal of LFE action on most of the tracks on that? Anyhow... Let's put it politely - the original 5.1 is utter turd! . I could tell that from looking at the wave files - so much so that I didn't really listen to it before I futzed with it....

There must have been a major cock up with the authoring because the rear channels are on whispering territory! Increasing them (by quite a lot) on certain songs does give it quite a nice 'immersive' sound. And if you then compare the new 'rear increased'' version to the stereo version - they sound the same with strings/balence etc...

I've actually come to really like the music now after trying to edit it - great stuff from the boss! The tracks that work best after the increase I would say are 'Long Time Comin', 'The Hitter' and 'All I'm Thinkin' About'...

I'd give the original a 3 and the edited version a 6... It's a shame because I really like this album now and even though it's quite a bare acoustic album - if this were in the right hands it could've been really good. Thinking panning on the saw sounds etc?! Oh well roll on the Elliot Scheiner, Born To Run 5.1 reissue!

 

[zimmy]

It was very good that this album was noticed. Myself i have honestly not listened much to it at all. This is despite that i felt that this was quite an good album by Bruce at that time. The idea to rise the level on the rears was an very very good advice. I can´t understand how they can make 5.1 in the way they did with this album originally. Now i actually think this is quite an good surround album. The songs has become far more interesting and if they would have been presented it this way originally this album would have been admired much more than it was.

 

[4-earredwonder]

I decided to take the @fredblue 2015 challenge! Found this title for cheap as chips although I'm not exactly sure which version it is? On the order it said DualDisc but the version I got was just a CD/DVD? I only say that because there isn't a great deal of LFE action on most of the tracks on that? Anyhow... Let's put it politely - the original 5.1 is utter turd! . I could tell that from looking at the wave files - so much so that I didn't really listen to it before I futzed with it....

There must have been a major cock up with the authoring because the rear channels are on whispering territory! Increasing them (by quite a lot) on certain songs does give it quite a nice 'immersive' sound. And if you then compare the new 'rear increased'' version to the stereo version - they sound the same with strings/balence etc...

I've actually come to really like the music now after trying to edit it - great stuff from the boss! The tracks that work best after the increase I would say are 'Long Time Comin', 'The Hitter' and 'All I'm Thinkin' About'...

I'd give the original a 3 and the edited version a 6... It's a shame because I really like this album now and even though it's quite a bare acoustic album - if this were in the right hands it could've been really good. Thinking panning on the saw sounds etc?! Oh well roll on the Elliot Scheiner, Born To Run 5.1 reissue!

ALL the more reason Jonathan to concentrate on the included 30 minute 480i video in [audiophile~grade] LPCM STEREO 48/24*, which, IMO, is FANTASTIC. I'm not a tinkerer and have NO interest in fiddling with the dials to make a turd sound less turdish! And just play the album itself in LPCM Stereo [16/48].

*This according to my OPPO 205

IMO, the content's a 9, the 5.1 remix [?] is 0, the LPCM 2.0 48/16 is a 7, the 30 minute 4X3 48/24 480i Video with Bruce on solo guitar, harmonica and a bit of background piano accompaniment is a 9.....For a score of 6.

And since the 5.1 masters exist for this album....wish SONY [or someone] would reissue it CORRECTED on SACD [or whatever]! IMO, it's an album worth salvaging.

 

[jefe1]

Found this title for cheap in a thriftstore years ago. Recalled it was reputed to be a bad 5.1 mix and I just filed it away.
perhaps ill look for it and watch the video.

 

[4-earredwonder]

Found this title for cheap in a thriftstore years ago. Recalled it was reputed to be a bad 5.1 mix and I just filed it away.
perhaps ill look for it and watch the video.

The 5.1 remix IS a real turd and unless you want to tinker with the surrounds to make it more palatable, I recommend you listen to the album in LPCM 16/48 stereo and watch the 480i video which, ironically, is in hi def 24/48 Stereo.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

I'm not even going to waste my time with a review of this one; unless you're a huge Bruce fan I can't begin to recommend this.
Voted a 3, and that's being generous.

 

[aoxomoxoa]

I figure I'd be the first to chime in, after almost twenty years on this subject.
Some of Bruce's best later period songs are on this album.
I don't think the surround mix is that fantastic but it's a good sounding album. There's at least three or four really strong songs on it.
He hasn't topped it since.