Tears for Fears-Songs From The Big Chair - HiRez 5.1!

[konoyaro]

Just so I'm clear, based on the track listing on Burning Shed the HFPA / Blu-Ray release will have the original album in three versions but will not include and b-sides or bonus tracks. Is that correct?

 

[elshagon]

Maybe this has already been answered so forgive me: Does the dvd set include the official music videos from the album and are they in surround? Thanks Neil for clearing up what's included in the blu ray and dvd box set, just didn't see whether the music videos to the songs were included. It's great having Neil on here to give us the early scoop on this release!

 

[Jens]

I just realised that Seeds of Love was a UK #1 in1989. So that must be the other SW mix.

That would be fabulous news!

 

[Jens]

Let's clear this up then.
The HFPA contains Steven's excellent stereo & 5.1 mixes. [...]
In the box, there is a full DVD-A/V with pretty much the same content as the HFPA disc - the original stereo/2014 stereo/surround mixes in MLP Lossless plus original stereo/new stereo in 24/96 LPCM & the surround in DTS 9624. [...]

Thanks for sharing this in so much detail. So it's confirmed then that the DVD-A will not be available as a stand-alone product or in a 2-disc CD+DVD package, right?

 

[Woody71]

Back to the stuff we are all interested in - the 5.1 mix. I have no idea how he does it, but yet again Steven Wilson has nailed it - he just keeps on getting better & better at this, and hearing this album in 5.1 really does it justice in so many ways - the whole room is filled during "I Believe", and this is no mean feat considering it's Piano/Vocal. Superb.

That's why he's selective... the relationship with the original material shines through. The knowledge of years of listening and the possibility of remixing has come to this point. We all have our ideas of how we'd like to hear our 30 year old favourites to sound... I for one, cannot wait to load up this BD disc. I am a SW fanboy admittedly, but this one is possibly up there with the XTC releases to me.

 

[DocCasualty]

Found it on http://www.deepdiscount.com/tears-for-fears-songs-from-the-big-chair/602537973569 for $26.15, free shipping. I played the cassette to death on my WalkMan when this came out. Looking forward to SW's 5.1 magic!

 

[rtbluray]

http://www.superdeluxeedition.com/f...-tears-for-fears-and-the-stereo-channel-saga/

SDE Editor Paul Sinclair worked on the forthcoming reissue of Tears For Fears’ Songs From The Big Chair. In this feature he exclusively lifts the lid of some of the behind-the-scenes work that went into remixing and remastering the album and talks to Steven Wilson about the remixing process…

The newly announced Tears For Fears reissue of Songs From The Big Chair will include a 2014 Stereo Mix as well as a new 5.1 surround sound remix. Although the 5.1 mix has got everyone very excited (understandably), the stereo remix is worth talking about because there are some aspects to this remix that may not be at first apparent.

The main thing to consider is that the last four tracks on the album (I Believe, Broken, Head Over Heels and Listen) all cross-fade into each other. Back in 1985 in the pre-digital editing era, two analogue machines would have played back the stereo masters while dubbing onto a third machine to create the cross-fade. What that means is that every issue of Songs From The Big Chair up until this point has contained ‘second generation’ versions of the tracks in question.

For the 2014 stereo remix (and the 5.1 mix) the original 1984 analogue multitrack tapes were transferred to digital in high resolution (96kHz / 24 bit) at Abbey Road studios. The multi-track sessions varied from 24 track, 48 track, and – in the case of Mothers Talk – 72 track (3 x 24 track tapes synchronised).

Steven Wilson, who was responsible for both of the 2014 remixes, describes the process: “Once the tapes were re-synchronised and transferred, I worked to match the original stereo mixes, recreating instrument balances, stereo positioning, equalisation, compression, reverbs, delays, etc. These remixes were regularly run past Roland for feedback, and went through several versions until we were happy that they were as faithful to the original album mixes as possible. Only at this point were the mixes expanded from stereo to 5.1.”

So on the 2014 Stereo remix I Believe, Head Over Heels and Listen are two generations better than what was used to master the original album (back one step to the stereo analogue masters and then another step back to the multi tracks). Everything else (i.e. the tracks not crossfaded) are one generation better (stereo masters to multi-tracks). Broken is a special case because despite an extensive search, the original multi-track tapes could not be found. So for the 2014 stereo mix, the original stereo masters (prior to being copied to the second-generation compiled album master) were used, making that track also a generation better than what was used on the original.

Of course the lack of multi-track tapes for Broken had an impact on the 5.1 mix. Steven Wilson explains the workaround: “The original stereo masters were processed through Penteo stereo to surround up-mixer software in order to create pseudo surround versions. These were then inserted into the album sequence to maintain the 5.1 playback flow.”

Despite that little forced compromise with the 5.1 mix, every track on Songs From The Big Chair is at least one generation ‘fresher’ on the surround version and the 2014 stereo mix, which is an exciting prospect for fans. (Both these mixes are on DVD and blu-ray – the version on CD 1 (in the box and deluxe edition) remains a remastered version using the original analogue tapes).

It should be pointed out that Steven Wilson doesn’t consider the new mix to necessarily ‘better’ than the original though: “It’s a matter of taste whether it sounds better than the original mix,” he says. “More clarity in places perhaps, but the original mix is great and definitive, so I would say the new mix just sounds different, not better. However, one thing that does differ very slightly to the original is that I backed off some of the extreme use of reverb on some mix elements. The trend in the mid 80’s was definitely to have everything bathed in massive arena-sized reverbs, and I certainly have not changed that approach or the overall sound world of the album, which is supposed to sound huge and epic after all. It’s more a subtle tweak that just gives the impression of the instruments and vocals being slightly more present or “up front” in places.”

The 5.1 mix can be found on the forthcoming super deluxe edition box of Songs From The Big Chair as well as the standalone blu-ray. Both those formats also contain the 2014 Stereo Mix which is additionally exclusively available via Universal’s online store as a limited edition vinyl pressing.

Another issue that I was aware of, before the project even began, was the fact that the stereo image (the left and right channels) were supposedly reversed on the 1999 and 2005 reissues of Songs From The Big Chair when compared to the original UK vinyl. These have long considered to be ‘wrong’ by the uber-fans that concern themselves with the finer details. The 1998 Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs audiophile CD pressing had a reputation for being the only reissue to get the channels ‘right’ by maintaining the stereo image as it was on the original LP. An easy way to tell the difference is that on the original record the percussion (i.e. metallic chimes) at the beginning of Shout go from right to left. On subsequent Universal reissues they go from left to right. Anyway, I mentioned this to Andy Walter who was remastering the CD element of the Songs From The Big Chair reissue and he advised that the master tapes have a hand written note on them pointing out that the channels are reversed on the tape and therefore should be reversed again to get them back to how they should be. Trouble was, the tape played the shout percussion right to left, which at the time we thought was CORRECT, therefore if we followed the instruction to reverse them, surely they’d be ‘wrong’? Arghh!!!

I asked Steven Wilson what he thought and his opinion was that most mixers would have mixed the metal chimes from left to right so he was dubious about the fact that right to left was correct. Thankfully, as he was liaising regularly with Roland [Orzabal] at that point, discussing the new stereo and 5.1 remix, we had an easy way to check with an authority. Roland told us that since Jerry Marotta is right handed, the toms on The Working Hour would have been mixed “low tom on the left and high tom on the right”. Low and behold the original LP is the reverse of this. If there was any further doubt Steven Wilson also checked with the original producer Chris Hughes who confirmed categorically that the metal chimes should go from left to right. That information effectively proved that the original UK vinyl pressing is incorrect – the stereo image is the wrong way around which is why the master tape has the 1998 Jon Astley note (see above) stating that it should be reversed. That instruction was either not followed for the MFSL or as is more likely they used different tape sources (Head Over Heels on the MFSL runs slightly longer than the standard album version which means that cannot have used the same tapes ).

So the mystery of the stereo image has been solved once and for all. The 2014 remaster and the 2014 stereo mix correctly reverse the channels when compared to the original vinyl release which – incredibly – is incorrect. The MFSL is also incorrect so it’s reputation for being the only ‘correct’ version now lies in tatters!

 

[Clint Eastwood]

SDE Editor Paul Sinclair worked on the forthcoming reissue of Tears For Fears’ Songs From The Big Chair. In this feature he exclusively lifts the lid of some of the behind-the-scenes work that went into remixing and remastering the album and talks to Steven Wilson about the remixing process…

Very interesting read...not only does Steven Wilson have the "gift"...he also has the "passion"...this explains why he only works on music he likes...so much attention to detail...

 

[EMB]

Very interesting read...not only does Steven Wilson have the "gift"...he also has the "passion"...this explains why he only works on music he likes...so much attention to detail...

And I'm sure it's nice for Wilson that he can do this, not all folks who work in the mastering process have that 'pick 'n' choose' option. And it's certainly good to know the issue of channel selection--what is the proper left/right setup--was straightened out once and for all. Over the years, I've noticed that on occasion some have the channels reversed relative to the original. That doesn't mean the original was correct, but it is a difference that, while not often noticed, is worth considering (one nice thing about mono is that this isn't a concern for obvious reasons).

The 5.1 mix should be a revelation, given all the tracks employed on the sessions.

ED

 

[rtbluray]

And I'm sure it's nice for Wilson that he can do this, not all folks who work in the mastering process have that 'pick 'n' choose' option. And it's certainly good to know the issue of channel selection--what is the proper left/right setup--was straightened out once and for all. Over the years, I've noticed that on occasion some have the channels reversed relative to the original. That doesn't mean the original was correct, but it is a difference that, while not often noticed, is worth considering (one nice thing about mono is that this isn't a concern for obvious reasons).

The 5.1 mix should be a revelation, given all the tracks employed on the sessions.

ED

MIXING, not mastering... (Just for the record)

The reason he can be so picky and choosy about what he remixes is that this is not at all his primary occupation like it is for a lot of mixing and mastering engineers. If you run an engineering business, then you pretty much work with anyone and everyone than can afford to work with you.
With SW, he is still primarily a songwriter and recording artist, so he has the ability to pick and choose his outside mixing projects more than many others could.
Basically he really is living the dream.

 

[bangsezmax]

Of course the lack of multi-track tapes for Broken had an impact on the 5.1 mix. Steven Wilson explains the workaround: “The original stereo masters were processed through Penteo stereo to surround up-mixer software in order to create pseudo surround versions. These were then inserted into the album sequence to maintain the 5.1 playback flow.”

I am sad about this. I love that track.

 

[JonUrban]

I wonder how the current Penteo would stack up against the Surround Master?

 

[Robert van Diggele]

Good call Jon, perhaps Chucky should send Steven a surround master to compare to the Penteo.

 

[bangsezmax]

So do they mean the studio version of "Broken" (track 6 on the CD) or the live version (the end of track 7)?

 

[Perp]

^ The studio version.

 

[peterzach]

So do they mean the studio version of "Broken" (track 6 on the CD) or the live version (the end of track 7)?

Paul Sinclair responded both:

Paul –

Nice, in depth article. I’m curious, when you mention that the multi-tracks for “Broken” are missing, are you referring to the first half (the studio version), the second half (the live version) or both?
Reply
Paul Sinclair says:
October 6, 2014 at 21:18
Both!!

 

[Perp]

Way back when SFTBC was released, I always wondered if that 'live' part of "Broken" was really that. I'm beginning to wonder if it isn't just the studio recording with an audience and reverb dubbed in to make it sound live.

 

[JonUrban]

I specifically listened to Track 6 multiple times in the car on my way home today, and yes, now that I know it, you can clearly tell that it's been "matrixed". It sounds like it went through Penteo, SPEC, Surround Master, or some type of surround processor. Still, I didn't really notice it the first few times I listened to the DVD-A, probably because I don't know this album that well, and that I was pretty blown away by tracks like "I Believe" and "Everybody Wants to Rule the World". Also, Track 6 is mostly instrumental and BIG, so the audio of that track lends itself to a full presentation.

Besides, I am thrilled to hear that they did not skip over the album because they could not find the multi's to one (or more) tracks. Penteo is a fine way to treat a track with no multi's. It's too bad that UMG/UMe or whatever they are or were did not do the same with the two missing tracks from "Aja". We might have gotten an SACD of Aja 10 years ago with the two missing tracks just processed. I mean, who cares? We'd have had the rest of the tracks for real, whereas now we get no tracks at all.

Good job by the folks in charge of this project. I can't wait to hear what you guys think about this mix. It's great!

 

[Clint Eastwood]

I specifically listened to Track 6 multiple times in the car on my way home today, and yes, now that I know it, you can clearly tell that it's been "matrixed". It sounds like it went through Penteo, SPEC, Surround Master, or some type of surround processor. Still, I didn't really notice it the first few times I listened to the DVD-A, probably because I don't know this album that well, and that I was pretty blown away by tracks like "I Believe" and "Everybody Wants to Rule the World". Also, Track 6 is mostly instrumental and BIG, so the audio of that track lends itself to a full presentation.

Besides, I am thrilled to hear that they did not skip over the album because they could not find the multi's to one (or more) tracks. Penteo is a fine way to treat a track with no multi's. It's too bad that UMG/UMe or whatever they are or were did not do the same with the two missing tracks from "Aja". We might have gotten an SACD of Aja 10 years ago with the two missing tracks just processed. I mean, who cares? We'd have had the rest of the tracks for real, whereas now we get no tracks at all.

Good job by the folks in charge of this project. I can't wait to hear what you guys think about this mix. It's great!

Although I'm very happy with the SHM SACD of Aja I'd LOVE to have a surround version...even without 2 original songs... that's 5 other songs to work with..and I bet they could do a great job on the revised 2 songs....with the track record of Steely Dan and surround music I'm sure they would be receptive to the idea...they embrace surround music as much as any band I'm familiar with...oh if someone would just float that idea to the corporate moguls..

 

[Clint Eastwood]

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