Not sure why this has to be a thing but when I see it I'm going to report it. The LFE is delayed by 24ms in the 5.1 mix.
The Pineapple Thief - Give It Back (5.1 / Dolby Atmos BluRay)
- Thread starter alansanchez86
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I confirm this delay in the 5.1 mix.
For the Atmos track I can only load the embedded core AC-3 into Audacity and see a lower LFE delay of 5 ms.
Not sure what impact this may have. The LFE volume level in the mix seems too low for me. (I dont' know).
I think our NOT perfectly calibrated/equalized/room acoustic treatment has much more impact in the quality of sound.
Lets enjoy the Album...
I confirm this delay in the 5.1 mix.
For the Atmos track I can only load the embedded core AC-3 into Audacity and see a lower LFE delay of 5 ms.
Not sure what impact this may have. The LFE volume level in the mix seems too low for me. (I dont' know).
I think our NOT perfectly calibrated/equalized/room acoustic treatment has much more impact in the quality of sound.
Lets enjoy the Album...
Thanks for confirming. The bottom line is that the LFE isn't properly reenforcing the bass in the other channels. It really upsets me that the authors of this stuff are ignorant to this. Of course with Atmos, we are powerless to even correct it. Just one of those life frustrations when you realize people are doing something wrong because they don't know any better because things are just too complex these days. Seems like multichannel mixes need to have a "phase/channel alignment verification engineer". I'll volunteer, for the right pay.
I will not pretend that I understand more than half of what you are saying but I wonder what is the practical result of this shortcoming - how does it affect the sound? For example, my setup is 5.1 and I use only analogue out from my amp (no base management). My subwoofer is connected to the amp with both low level (LFE) and high level (Speakon from the R and L front channel terminals). Am I in any way suffering from what you are describing above?
My recommendation, as I said before, is to forget this… and… Enjoy the album.
The impact is really minimal or non-existent. You may affect a lot more the bass issue when setting your Subwoofer gain.
But if you want to go technically in this matter, I will tell you:
The use of LFE content for multichannel music is under debate.
Here you have some threads:
https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...ave-a-lfe-issue-info-list-fixes-inside.30048/
https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...-samples-phase-inversion-and-lfe-delay.30057/
The wonderful world of LFE
There are some multichannel releases that have the LFE content delayed some ms with respect to the fronts low frequencies.
It could be intentional or the result of an oversight. A mix/master could have the LFE generated with a copy of the main content or whatever and then apply a low pass filter. Normally, applying a low pass filter to a signal generates a delay. The mixing/master engineer should “correct” for that delay, but it could be that he does not want to do it or perhaps he ignores it.
This may cause a cancelation (partial) of the volume level of low frequencies. When the fronts sound wave is pushing, the LFE content delayed may be pulling and the net result is a decrease of the whole Bass volume level, with respect to the recorded and mixed studio sound.
The practical net effect could be minimal, specially if the delay is only a fraction of the low frequency cycle and the volume level of the LFE channel is not too high.
Thus, many suggest that better to avoid potential problems and leave the LFE empty, concentrating the bass content in the main Fronts (and/or other channels).
We find many good quality multichannel editions that have LFE null (5.0).
But some producers keep generating LFE content. Perhaps for those consumers that does not know how to properly calibrate a system, either with or without bass management, or not have full band speakers and a subwoofer with LFE content would give them some more bass.
As I like to mess around, I have already edited the “Give It Back 5.1” with Audacity and aligned the LFE content with the fronts. After several A-B listening comparison, I do not find any differences. Perhaps the LFE aligned version has the bass guitar notes very slightly more tight, but I would have to make a blind A-B comparison asking my wife to random put each version, to check if I can tell them apart.
I don’t know if it's worth messing around teaching her how to do it.
AYanguas, many thanks for your thorough answer on this subject - much appreciated!My recommendation, as I said before, is to forget this… and… Enjoy the album.
The impact is really minimal or non-existent. You may affect a lot more the bass issue when setting your Subwoofer gain.
But if you want to go technically in this matter, I will tell you:
The use of LFE content for multichannel music is under debate.
Here you have some threads:
https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...ave-a-lfe-issue-info-list-fixes-inside.30048/
https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...-samples-phase-inversion-and-lfe-delay.30057/
The wonderful world of LFE
There are some multichannel releases that have the LFE content delayed some ms with respect to the fronts low frequencies.
It could be intentional or the result of an oversight. A mix/master could have the LFE generated with a copy of the main content or whatever and then apply a low pass filter. Normally, applying a low pass filter to a signal generates a delay. The mixing/master engineer should “correct” for that delay, but it could be that he does not want to do it or perhaps he ignores it.
This may cause a cancelation (partial) of the volume level of low frequencies. When the fronts sound wave is pushing, the LFE content delayed may be pulling and the net result is a decrease of the whole Bass volume level, with respect to the recorded and mixed studio sound.
The practical net effect could be minimal, specially if the delay is only a fraction of the low frequency cycle and the volume level of the LFE channel is not too high.
Thus, many suggest that better to avoid potential problems and leave the LFE empty, concentrating the bass content in the main Fronts (and/or other channels).
We find many good quality multichannel editions that have LFE null (5.0).
But some producers keep generating LFE content. Perhaps for those consumers that does not know how to properly calibrate a system, either with or without bass management, or not have full band speakers and a subwoofer with LFE content would give them some more bass.
As I like to mess around, I have already edited the “Give It Back 5.1” with Audacity and aligned the LFE content with the fronts. After several A-B listening comparison, I do not find any differences. Perhaps the LFE aligned version has the bass guitar notes very slightly more tight, but I would have to make a blind A-B comparison asking my wife to random put each version, to check if I can tell them apart.
I don’t know if it's worth messing around teaching her how to do it.
Love the music and mix, and plan to ten it when next the ratings stream conveniently pops up in one of those alerts I get, but I do have to express my dismay at the imagination-free Blu-ray authoring. I like minimalism, but this feels like a few pegs beneath that and has more of a can't-be-bothered or forgot-to-do-properly feel to it.
By contrast, the authoring on the new xPropaganda (also a ten from me) is both minimalist and yet xCellent.
By contrast, the authoring on the new xPropaganda (also a ten from me) is both minimalist and yet xCellent.
Love the music and mix, and plan to ten it when next the ratings stream conveniently pops up in one of those alerts I get, but I do have to express my dismay at the imagination-free Blu-ray authoring. I like minimalism, but this feels like a few pegs beneath that and has more of a can't-be-bothered or forgot-to-do-properly feel to it.
Yes. The first time I listened I missed the song title on screen as the album progress.
We have already forgotten when we listened to vinyl or CDs that we had the cover in our hands to follow the songs.
fcormier
Senior Member
Just a little revival of this thread with some speculation. A month ago, TPT released an acoustic version of Bond (from the Magnolia album) on their Youtube channel. THe thing is that this version was never published: it was not on the 2CD edition of Magnolia that included acoustic versions. It's also not the same as version as on The Soord Sessions. Could it have been recorded for Magnolia, not released and brought out for the upcoming surround/Atmos mixes of the back catalog?
After listening through How Did We Find Our Way, I appreciate this disc much more,
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