Quad LP/Tape Poll White, Michael: Go With the Flow [QS]

[steelydave]

Violinist Michael White's final LP for Impulse! (and fifth as a leader for the label) released in late 1974.

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Impluse! / ABC ASD-9281 [QS LP]
Discogs link: LP
Wiki page for the album: Go With the Flow

Quadraphonic remix engineer: Baker Bigsby
Assistant engineer: Dominic Lumetta
Producer Ed Michel

Side 1

1. Go With the Flow
2. The Lady Sirro
3. In the Silence (Listen)

Side 2

1. Spaceside
2. Her
3. Moondust Shuffle
4. Go With the Flow

 

[J. PUPSTER]

Having recently acquired one of the original LP's (1974); I'm still somewhat conflicted by this one. Not because of the music, it's that Baker Bigsby QS encoded mix that just continues to confound me. I decoded it with my trusty Involve Surround Master ver.2 and ripped it to digital at 96x24 for a good clean listen after some De-Clicking and Spectral Noise reduction.

I actually feel now that I've listened to it many times, that the enjoyment of the music grows with each listen. Might be one of my favorite Michael White albums now. It's too bad that it only has had two releases AFAIK via some research; one QS LP and another similar at the time that was a Promo version. Since then nothing from the label, no extra LP's CD's or even streaming/download files to listen to. So I'm sure you can catch some of it off of YouTube to sample the music; however if one was wanting a single inventory type later release somewhere the "Flow" would be stopped in it's tracks! I'd categorize the style of music as a funky more acoustic sounding Jazz fusion of that time; and with White's Violin playing sounding like a jazzier/funkier version of Papa John Creach.

The mix is often that typical Impulse! "where are the discrete instruments coming from?" feel to it with a kind of heavy handed bass mastering etc. that sounds somewhat soft and muddy overall. However if you do a good decode and listen carefully, you can pick out some semi-discrete sounding features as I'll break down a few below.

The title song 'Go With The Flow' (song number 1) starts with a soft triangle ring in the fronts and a double bass with some wah-wah effect, comes in followed by some spacey moaning vocals that shifts from Front to Rear. Also, some guitar, organ, Rhodes, Violin, of course Drums/Conga and some finger snaps/hand claps that move around the fronts and rears. Kenneth Jenkins plays some very active bass, continually moving the grooves along. Sometimes you'll hear a loud Crash Cymbal in the Rear Left.

On track 3 'In The Silence (Listen)' you'll hear a drum roll go from Front Right to Front Left and down to Rear Left. This sometimes reminds me of something like "Return To Forever" with a more Jean-Luc Ponty feel. The last part of the song has some vocalizations that move around the sound field, along with some Griot Bells and Thumb Piano, giving it a very earthy African sound.

Track 4 'Spaceslide' has some guitar and organ movement (maybe Moog Synth.) that somehow satisfies my more Quad yearnings. Lots of Conga on this one. There is a more straight forward sound here, but since it is an acoustic Double Bass, it just seems recorded (engineered) a little too muddy for me.

Track 6 'Moondust Shuffle' is a real stompin' Jazzy shuffle, with that Papa John Creach violin sound to me. Just a great walking bass line going strong on this one. Sometimes on these songs, it sounds like the Crash Cymbal has some kind Phase pedal effect applied to it.

No wonder this one doesn't have any votes here, given that you'd need to purchase an original Vinyl like I did to give a proper listen. However I believe with the strong musical performance, it's dollars well spent for folks that enjoy this style music in Quad. Hopefully someday this situation will get remedied or else perhaps no additional releases because the masters were lost/deteriorated etc.; which would be a major loss IMO.

For a vote I'll go with a strong 7 for this one, with music about a 9 and the mix/mastering a 6.

Here are some of my scans of the covers (including inside Gatefold) for historical purposes.

 

[quadsearcher]

Cool. I have an original copy of that record too. I remember liking it, the only Michael White record I've heard. I did not realize it was quad, or maybe I saw it on the list and forgot.
I'll give it a try next time I run across it! (Need to alphabetize my records).

 

[omnipotent1]

Shame that none of this genre on Impulse and Black Jazz hasn't been reissued in a modern format.
But judging from the almost complete lack of votes on here for this genre of music I guess not enough people like it.

 

[steelydave]

Shame that none of this genre on Impulse and Black Jazz hasn't been reissued in a modern format.
But judging from the almost complete lack of votes on here for this genre of music I guess not enough people like it.

I think it's a chicken and egg thing - this album is incredibly scarce, and has never been reissued digitally at all (possible UMG vault fire candidate) and LP copies regularly sell for $50 - and oftentimes much more - on eBay so it's no surprise there isn't much action on poll threads like this.

By the same token however, I don't think you can infer that people don't (or wouldn't) like it based on that. Many of the poll threads here for R&B and jazz releases on legacy quad formats have very few comments and ratings, simply because of the rarity of these albums and resultant high price they fetch on the secondary market. Many of (in my opinion) D-Vs best SACD releases in these genres - take your pick, O'Jays, Billy Paul, MFSB, Weather Report, Return to Forever, Johnnie Taylor, etc. - struggled to get 10 votes in their legacy LP/Q8 polls, and the success of D-V's quad reissue program tells you everything you need to know about how popular these albums have ended up being.

It may be a moot point if all the Impulse! quad masters are now ashes in a landfill, but I think if the discrete quad mixes of these albums were reissued digitally there would be a serious reappraisal of both the musical and sonic qualities of these recordings. As it stands I think it's eminently commendable that people like @J. PUPSTER are doing what they can to raise the profile of these lesser-known quad gems - as any of the old heads here will tell you, you often have to bang the drum for a while (or a couple of decades) sometimes before someone in a position of power notices, and we all can play a small part in doing that.

 

[omnipotent1]

Heh

I think it's a chicken and egg thing - this album is incredibly scarce, and has never been reissued digitally at all (possible UMG vault fire candidate) and LP copies regularly sell for $50 - and oftentimes much more - on eBay so it's no surprise there isn't much action on poll threads like this.

By the same token however, I don't think you can infer that people don't (or wouldn't) like it based on that. Many of the poll threads here for R&B and jazz releases on legacy quad formats have very few comments and ratings, simply because of the rarity of these albums and resultant high price they fetch on the secondary market. Many of (in my opinion) D-Vs best SACD releases in these genres - take your pick, O'Jays, Billy Paul, MFSB, Weather Report, Return to Forever, Johnnie Taylor, etc. - struggled to get 10 votes in their legacy LP/Q8 polls, and the success of D-V's quad reissue program tells you everything you need to know about how popular these albums have ended up being.

It may be a moot point if all the Impulse! quad masters are now ashes in a landfill, but I think if the discrete quad mixes of these albums were reissued digitally there would be a serious reappraisal of both the musical and sonic qualities of these recordings. As it stands I think it's eminently commendable that people like @J. PUPSTER are doing what they can to raise the profile of these lesser-known quad gems - as any of the old heads here will tell you, you often have to bang the drum for a while (or a couple of decades) sometimes before someone in a position of power notices, and we all can play a small part in doing that.

Heh? That's a rather long winded off the mark screed as far as I'm concerned.
Referencing titles in your argument that sold magnitudes more than any Impulse/Black Jazz title doesn't compute.
Michael White vs the O'Jays...c'mon

In what way do you infer I wouldn't want these titles available?
And perceiving some sort of slight against another member?
Huh?
Truly baffled by this response

 

[steelydave]

Right, I'm going to ignore (most of) the personal insults because your reply seems to suggest you feel you've been attacked, which isn't the case at all.

I was simply challenging the false dichotomy in your post that there must not be interest in music like this, because there aren't many votes on polls. My belief is, as I previously stated, that the rarity and price of these titles as a far bigger contributor to the lack of engagement on threads like this.

I understand perfectly that the O'Jays and Michael White are not artists of a similar name-brand recognition. I was only speaking of the O'Jays in the context of their quadraphonic releases and the poll threads here - despite being very popular, the O'Jays quad LPs and 8-track tapes were released in very limited numbers (probably in the thousands rather than even the tens of thousands) and as a result there are probably a similar number of quad copies in existence as Go With the Flow.

If you look around this sub-forum you'll find that the poll thread for the O'Jays Message in the Music, which many (myself included) think is one of the finest quad mixes of all time, only has four replies and five votes total. Again the point I was making, and the comparison here, is that the forum engagement doesn't reflect the quality or actual popularity and more the rarity and price, having seen maybe three or four Q8's of this album in 20 years of eBay searching, and that they all sold for over $100 (and sometimes as high as $300). The fact that all the PIR quad mixes have been popular sellers for Dutton-Vocalion on reasonably-priced SACD only confirms this hypothesis for me.

The purpose of this forum is to educate and inform and share the passion for our shared hobby. I made no slight, hidden or overt toward you or any other member. I was simply commending J.Pupster for raising the profile of this title. For those of us who've been here since the early DVD-A era, until quite recently is was almost 25 years of pretty much everyone outside this forum (trade writers, stereo snobs, "audiophiles" etc.) saying that surround music had no artistic merit, was a waste of time, and not commercially viable. The turnover of staff at major labels combined with haphazard tape cataloging means that many companies don't know exactly what they're sitting on, and the only reason many of the digital quad reissues of recent years have happened is because someone in a position of power has spied a post on a forum like this, or been told by an enthusiast like the people here that a quad mix exists. I've seen this a number of times first-hand with Dutton-Vocalion, and it's no accident that Warner has a rep here engaging with our userbase given how wise they are, collectively. So is Pupster's post a long-odds lottery ticket for ever getting this album reissued? Sure, but like Wayne Gretzky said, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

...and as for my "long winded screeds' (which you only seem to have read half the words of anyway) if a post in a thread about a niche album on a niche website about a niche subject isn't the place for long-form waxing philosophical, then I don't know where is. If you want to communicate your ideas in CB Radio-style sentence fragments that's cool, but I'm gonna do what I like - feel free to not reply to my posts in the future. And also a word of advice, take a log off the fire and try presuming the best of someone's intentions if you're not sure, instead of the worst, because if you go in to an interaction looking for trouble it can become a self-fulfilling prophecy - and you'll last longer here too.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

Heh

Heh? That's a rather long winded off the mark screed as far as I'm concerned.
Referencing titles in your argument that sold magnitudes more than any Impulse/Black Jazz title doesn't compute.
Michael White vs the O'Jays...c'mon

In what way do you infer I wouldn't want these titles available?
And perceiving some sort of slight against another member?
Huh?
Truly baffled by this response

These LP type Quads only require 6 votes IINM to get into the Polls' data search; if you have and care to add a vote from personal experience, that would be great! Your prior post is not really informing and advancing knowledge about this title. My middle of the road vote, has more to do about my disappointment in the mix (encoding?)/mastering of the title rather than the music, which IMO is very enjoyable; and again, hope others seek it out for a listen.

I have to agree with Dave, that it's more about the lack of access to the title than the music itself. Dave is very knowledgeable and experienced with all things Quad, as I've personally learned an immense amount about this hobby from him over the years here. He adds valuable insights to these Quads and music overall often on the forum, and otherwise enhances the fun in this hobby. Heck, I wouldn't have even known about this artist/title if he hadn't posted this Poll thread. He currently is, and has worked with professionals in this area for many years; and is highly respected on our forum. I didn't feel he was slighting your comments at all, just adding some clarifications as to his opinion about the titles, their availability and appeal.