Wierd Problem with Rhino Quad

[weekendtoy]

Starting in Movie or Music mode, yes - press the Pure button ONCE. That will be Direct mode, which is what you want. Press TWICE and you're in Pure Direct mode, which does disable Audyssey.

You want Direct mode, which does NOT disable Audyssey, subs from bass managment, speaker distances, etc.

In your OSD info, you should see the mode shown - if it says Pure Direct, there will be no Audyssey & subs since 4 channel quad discs won't have a sub channel. If this is what you have then:

Cycle through pressing the button again until the OSD shows Direct. When done listening to these discs, then you can press the Movie or Music buttons and you'll be back to where you started initially.

Does that help clarify?

If you used to use a Denon, the use of these modes are the same as what the Denon have.

Thank you again for reply.

When in Direct mode (not Pure Direct) the subs are definitely not engaged. I've confirmed by nearfield listening and placing my hand on the subs woofers themselves. The screenshot below also indicates while in Direct mode, no subs.

I won't burden folks any further on this matter as turning off the rear surrounds in the AVR does solve the matter. But it is strange that I would have to do anything when every other disc I own plays in its correct native format without me having to do anything.

 

[fredblue]

Thank you again for reply.

When in Direct mode (not Pure Direct) the subs are definitely not engaged. I've confirmed by nearfield listening and placing my hand on the subs woofers themselves. The screenshot below also indicates while in Direct mode, no subs.

I won't burden folks any further on this matter as turning off the rear surrounds in the AVR does solve the matter. But it is strange that I would have to do anything when every other disc I own plays in its correct native format without me having to do anything.

View attachment 94379

are your Fronts set to Large?

 

[Hamilton59]

@weekendtoy & all,
I have the exact same problem and test results. I also prefer to have Audyssey and my subs turned on. I honestly didn’t think the rear back speakers were playing until I put my ears next to the speakers. Now when I choose a direct mode, I can hear the rears drop out behind me. I suspect that this makes the over all rear sound field louder than designed and may explain some low mixed lead vocals that I’ve noticed.
I’ve checked and ALL Rhino quad Blu-ray discs play back with this problem (Chicago set, Doobies set, the Doors Singles) that use DTS-HD Master encoding. The Pink Floyd Immersion sets Blu-ray quad versions of Dark Side Of The Moon & Wish You Were Here play back as desired/expected use LPCM 24 bit / 96 khz Uncompressed Multi Channel. The Rhino Aretha Franklin Quad DVD and my Quad SACDs all play back as desired/expected.
If I change my Oppo’s Audio Output Setup - HDMI Audio Format from Bitstream to LPCM the blu-rays play back as desired but I have to change it back to bitstream for ATMOS discs.
Neither of the Pure Modes sound as good to me as my normal Audyssey with Subs.

@fredblue , I do have my speakers manually set to small using 60 Hz crossovers.

@weekendtoy, how are you turning off the back speakers? Is there another way other than Setup/Speakers/Manual Setup/Speaker Config./Surr. Back to None?

 

[ss9001]

I owe you guys an apology! I just played some of Paranoid, Rhino's The Doors, 5.1 SACD of Dire Straits Brothers in Arms, a 5.1 DTS-MA movie, and 5.1 Dolby Digital DVD.

In Direct, Audyssey is disengaged and no bass management (no subs). I am truly surprised since I could have sworn Audyssey was in use with Direct mode. But it's not. You guys were right!

I am so used to using a Trinnov Altitude as my main processor, its room correction system is completely independent of which mode or upmixer you choose. I can play it in what Trinnov calls Native mode (same as a Direct) and still have all subs, all room correction, any other EQ filters used. I had forgotten the limitations in the Denon-Marantz prepros & AVR's.

Again, I am sorry for leading you astray. I don't like posting misinformation & this was a biggie.

So where does that lead you IF you want Audyssey and have subs play? And not have the rears or Atmos speakers play?

The only way I know of and I did this in mine and it works:

1. Go to Setup- Speakers-Manual-Speaker Config
2. Set Rear Surrounds to None. Set any Atmos height speakers to None
3. Pick DTS-Master from Music or Movie modes. If you choose one of the upmixers, it would normally send sound to rears and tops but since you have them turned off, they won't get any sound. The easiest is just pick DTS-Master.

I wish this would have worked the way I thought using Direct. Sorry again for my mistake.

You can enjoy using the rears or if you want straight 4 ch then they should be set to None.

This isn't a glitch or unique thing with these Rhino discs, it's just the way the Denon & Marantz's work. Kind of a pain but still only takes a few minutes.

 

[weekendtoy]

are your Fronts set to Large?

They could be but I set 'em to small for better integration with the subs

 

[weekendtoy]

[USER=8026]@weekendtoy, how are you turning off the back speakers? Is there another way other than Setup/Speakers/Manual Setup/Speaker Config./Surr. Back to None?

Yea got to surf through the menus and then back again to turn them back on.

 

[Hamilton59]

There is a problem with just turning off the rear speakers using Setup/Speakers/Manual Setup/Speaker Config./Surr. as a work around. I thought I remembered that if you change your speaker configuration in setup, you loose your Audyssey settings. When checking on the settings, I changed the Surround speakers to none and then mistakenly backed out of that screen and I heard the amp make the settings “click” sound. Whoops! So I played the Paranoid disc and switched between Direct and DTS-HD MSTR modes and there wasn’t any difference to the sound anymore. I had lost my Audyssey settings. So I restored the Audyssey configuration and then reapplied my preferred tweaks, small speakers, crossovers at 60 & 80 Hz, and subwoofers up by 3 db.

I just remembered having this same conversation before back in 2020 with @AYanguas from this thread…it’s a drag getting old!

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...lay-quad-mixes-in-a-7-1-4-system.29033/page-2
” @AYanguas :

It is a "known feature' + 'known bug' of the DTS decoder, at least in Denon.

1) DTS decoder 'copies' the Surround channels to the Surround back channels in an attempt to image the sound between each pair sides of surrounds to emulate the supposed position angle that a 5.1 would have with surrounds more at the rear, instead of surround sides location at 90º that is more usual in a 7.1 config. It also compensates for the two speaker sound level to have same level.
If you careful listen near the speakers, check that they sound the same and not different content as when 'upmixing'. THIS is the 'feature'

2) The display shows the Height speakers active, but really no sound goes to them. THIS is the 'bug' but only at the display pannel. You could check if height speakers are really silent.

3) What is new for me, because I never notice with DTS 4.0, is the display Center Speaker active. Perhaps is also a 'display bug' and the Center channel is silent.

So, in summary, it is a good implementation of DTS 5.1 playing in a 7.1 system to sound as if you had a 5.1 speakers system. Only display 'bug' keep lighting the rest of speakers, but they are silent (pending check the Center Channel).

When you select a PCM track in a Bluray instead of the DTS track this does not happen as it is not the DTS decoder working. You should have then available the Sound Option of Multichannel to get only the input channels from the signal (plus the SUB for bass management).

Hamilton59
”
Outstanding information @AYanguas , thank you !

I was not aware of this DTS decoder behavior with Marantz/Denon systems. I just verified that this is indeed what is happening with my SR 8012. As to your specific points:

1) It does appear to duplicate the signal etc between the side and rear surround on each side.

2) You are correct, the height speakers are indeed silent ! Great news there. I really didn’t want those smaller ceiling speakers active during 4 channel quad play back.

3) The center channel is also silent whilst the “display bug” indicates it is active.

After testing both LPCM 4 channel vs bitstream decoded 6 channel playback, I still prefer the sound of the LPCM 4 channel slightly better. I have 4 large full size matching speakers for my front and side surround speakers. My side surround speakers are positioned slightly back behind me vs 90* straight out to the side. My rear channel speakers are positioned behind me. The bitstream DTS decoded 6 channel playback does wrap the rear channel sound behind me more, but I think it is too much and sounds some what diluted when compared to just the 4 main speakers.

Thank you again for this DTS decoder behavior. It is good information to know !

David”