Will Atmos go away in a couple years?

[barturtle]

Bob Clearmountain seems to think so.


https://www.musicradar.com/news/bob-clearmountain-dolby-atmos-go-away

 

[sjcorne]

The full piece over at Tape Op has a lot of interesting info:
https://tapeop.com/interviews/151/jesse-ray-ernster-bob-clearmountain-mixing/Remind me not to listen to any of Ernster's Atmos mixes...

JR: I try to avoid the rear channels except for some verb tails. I try to do some technical things, so that when it goes through QC at the label, they see, “Oh, this does have audio on every channel. This is a provable Atmos file.” Sweet!

 

[humprof]

JR: I try to avoid the rear channels except for some verb tails. I try to do some technical things, so that when it goes through QC at the label, they see, “Oh, this does have audio on every channel. This is a provable Atmos file.” Sweet!

Yikes. Could you be more cynical? (Or fraudulent?) Hard to tell whether to assign that cynicism to him or the label, though, or whether it's just endemic to the entire system. I wonder if something like that is what's happening with the WEA stuff we're all fuming about.

Like Clearmountain himself, I hope he's wrong about Atmos. But I agree with his analysis: so far Dolby, the streaming services, and the labels aren't giving headphone listeners much reason to care. And Dolby doesn't seem to be prodding equipment manufacturers to come up with affordable and easy-to-install room-based systems so that good Atmos mixes can be heard the way they deserve to be heard.

 

[ar surround]

Bob Clearmountain seems to think so.

I was a big holdout and finally embraced Atmos. From my 50 years experience in surround sound, I can tell you that my all-in conversion to Atmos is a lock that the format will die out in a few years. Bet the mortgage on it. It's like getting the NY Jets and 100 points against a Pop Warner team.

 

[4-earredwonder]

I certainly surmised that with the PUSH for DOLBY SURROUND, DTS and DD 5.1 for home video/theater applications, surround would've had a more profound impact on Joe Q Public but even that fizzled out followed by DTS Entertainment's push for MUSIC ONLY surround releases [LOSSY] with 4.0. 5.1 even 6.1 releases immediately followed by the Major record label's big announcement for LOSSLESS MLP DVD~A 5.1 and Sony's push for SACD [Stereo and Multichannel]. ALL unfortunately, had minimal impact except for that niche market which always embraced surround as a viable format.

ATMOS with its requirements for new Receivers and 4 MORE overhead speakers presented a new challenge. And seriously folks, and I'm NOT being cheeky, how many who claim to be ATMOS ready have four properly placed overhead speakers which in any way match their already extant front, rears and center channels?????? The majority of listeners who claim they're ATMOS ready rely on sound bars and Amazon's 'toy' ATMOS plastic thingamajigs which in no conceivable way meet the ATMOS challenge.

And Clearmountain isn't alone in his assessment that ATMOS may be here today ... gone tomorrow because in an interview some years ago Elliot Scheiner said that 5.1 [even 4.0] was adequate for surround immersion when 7.1 became the new kid on the block!

I don't have ATMOS nor do I stream but from what I've read the ATMOS remixes are lossy, are basically 'rentals' and most will never be released, AFAIK, on LOSSLESS physical discs [which would fold down nicely into 5.1] .

So, really, how committed are both the artists and the Major releasing companies to making ATMOS a viable format for ALL to enjoy, even in a 5.1 unfold?

I see ATMOS as a PUSH by both artists and record labels to sell MORE music, albeit in a new 'improved' format and commendable as it is, it's hardly likely to be any more successful than ALL those formats which came before to create a dent in an already minimalist niche market.

And to be totally honest, this listener is happier than a pig in sh*t when UK's Dutton Vocalion releases those old QUAD classics from the 70's in pristine remasterings on LOSSLESS SACD with vibrant phantom center channels ....... at near 70's prices as well!

And if the Beatles' latest REVOLVER box set is any indication .... even though a DOLBY ATMOS version exists ... why didn't they consider it important enough to include it .... most especially for the price point they're charging for the set!

Will ATMOS be here today ... gone tomorrow? ALL things considered ....... perhaps another remnant of SURROUND'S ingloriously rocky history is my guess!

 

[LuvMyQuad]

I agree with Clearmountain's analysis as well. IMO, on a well set up music system, with good source material, Atmos does make an improvement in the spaciousness of the content. But that difference is small compared to the upgrade in going from stereo to 5.1. The vast majority of my best demo selections are still 5.1. Very few are even available in an Atmos version, and the few that are often have some other fatal flaw specific to the Atmos.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Will ATMOS be here today ... gone tomorrow? ALL things considered ....... perhaps another remnant of SURROUND'S ingloriously rocky history is my guess!

Yep. At least we'll still have the Atmos upmixers to use with those extra speakers. It does work well with a lot of 5.1 tracks.

 

[JohnN]

I hope not. Don't tell anyone, in case of emergency DTS Neural:X also works well on most 5.1 music for me.

 

[gene_stl]

Not to mention, the already done, disappearance of, Auro 3D.

 

[sjcorne]

Atmos does make an improvement in the spaciousness of the content. But that difference is small compared to the upgrade in going from stereo to 5.1.

It's really quite amazing when done right though, by an imaginative mixer willing to utilize the entire space. The Atmos mixes of the latest Tears For Fears and Porcupine Tree albums actually make their already-excellent 5.1 counterparts sound small. Once you've heard backing vocals emerging from above and synthesizers swirling around the height speakers, it's hard to go back.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

It's really quite amazing when done right though, by an imaginative mixer willing to utilize the entire space. The Atmos mixes of the latest Tears For Fears and Porcupine Tree albums actually make their already-excellent 5.1 counterparts sound small. Once you've heard backing vocals emerging from above and synthesizers swirling around the height speakers, it's hard to go back.

I have the TFF release, and the effect you are mentioning is also present on some of the better streaming selections, but, that mixing style doesn't impress me so much. It often strikes me like a cheap gimmick, just like old school ping pongy 4.0 quad. The spaciousness enhancement is much more realistic to me.

Now, with movies on the other hand....

 

[4-earredwonder]

I have the TFF release, and the effect you are mentioning is also present on some of the better streaming selections, but, that mixing style doesn't impress me so much. It often strikes me like a cheap gimmick, just like old school ping pongy 4.0 quad. The spaciousness enhancement is much more realistic to me.

Now, with movies on the other hand....

And therein lies the RUB.......So many who claim to LOVE. EMBRACE ATMOS to the MAX do NOT take advantage of the hundreds of movies on both state of the art BD~V and now UHD4K discs ........hours upon hours of content, usually available at price points WAY LESS than Music Only releases.

And what do you think ATMOS was REALLY created for:

MOVIE THEATERS...and now, HOME THEATERS!

 

[timothyemerson]

I hope that Atmos doesn't disappear for the sake of everyone that's spent thousands on the hardware required. I thought it would have gone the way of 3D TV's by now actually, so it's outlived my expectations. All it'll take is probably one studio to say, "nah, no more", then everyone else will fall in line and that'll be the end of it. It is Dolby though and they sure have staying power.

I don't know what I'm missing, particularly for all the movies I have with Atmos audio, as I only have 5.1 at my place but I don't have any treatment on my ceiling so that's kind of Atmos, isn't it?

 

[JohnN]

Such a struggle lol. Here I'm hoping they send me Broadsword with an Atmos mix.

 

[Tres Discrete]

I certainly surmised that with the PUSH for DOLBY SURROUND, DTS and DD 5.1 for home video/theater applications, surround would've had a more profound impact on Joe Q Public but even that fizzled out followed by DTS Entertainment's push for MUSIC ONLY surround releases [LOSSY] with 4.0. 5.1 even 6.1 releases immediately followed by the Major record label's big announcement for LOSSLESS MLP DVD~A 5.1 and Sony's push for SACD [Stereo and Multichannel]. ALL unfortunately, had minimal impact except for that niche market which always embraced surround as a viable format.

ATMOS with its requirements for new Receivers and 4 MORE overhead speakers presented a new challenge. And seriously folks, and I'm NOT being cheeky, how many who claim to be ATMOS ready have four properly placed overhead speakers which in any way match their already extant front, rears and center channels?????? The majority of listeners who claim they're ATMOS ready rely on sound bars and Amazon's 'toy' ATMOS plastic thingamajigs which in no conceivable way meet the ATMOS challenge.

And Clearmountain isn't alone in his assessment that ATMOS may be here today ... gone tomorrow because in an interview some years ago Elliot Scheiner said that 5.1 [even 4.0] was adequate for surround immersion when 7.1 became the new kid on the block!

I don't have ATMOS nor do I stream but from what I've read the ATMOS remixes are lossy, are basically 'rentals' and most will never be released, AFAIK, on LOSSLESS physical discs [which would fold down nicely into 5.1] .

So, really, how committed are both the artists and the Major releasing companies to making ATMOS a viable format for ALL to enjoy, even in a 5.1 unfold?

I see ATMOS as a PUSH by both artists and record labels to sell MORE music, albeit in a new 'improved' format and commendable as it is, it's hardly likely to be any more successful than ALL those formats which came before to create a dent in an already minimalist niche market.

And to be totally honest, this listener is happier than a pig in sh*t when UK's Dutton Vocalion releases those old QUAD classics from the 70's in pristine remasterings on LOSSLESS SACD with vibrant phantom center channels ....... at near 70's prices as well!

And if the Beatles' latest REVOLVER box set is any indication .... even though a DOLBY ATMOS version exists ... why didn't they consider it important enough to include it .... most especially for the price point they're charging for the set!

Will ATMOS be here today ... gone tomorrow? ALL things considered ....... perhaps another remnant of SURROUND'S ingloriously rocky history is my guess!

Totally agree re: Dutton Vocalion…astonishing sound & value…though I think we recently learned their prices are going up…at least out of the 1970’s

 

[4-earredwonder]

I hope that Atmos doesn't disappear for the sake of everyone that's spent thousands on the hardware required. I thought it would have gone the way of 3D TV's by now actually, so it's outlived my expectations. All it'll take is probably one studio to say, "nah, no more", then everyone else will fall in line and that'll be the end of it. It is Dolby though and they sure have staying power.

I don't know what I'm missing, particularly for all the movies I have with Atmos audio, as I only have 5.1 at my place but I don't have any treatment on my ceiling so that's kind of Atmos, isn't it?

Yup, Pete too bad 3D paired with ATMOS weren't viable formats in 2022 ....... THEY REALLY DO GO TOGETHER LIKE A HORSE AND CARRIAGE!

Another sad case in point ..... LG PERFECTS 3D on their spectacular OLED FLATSCREENS and then within 2 years ..... stops manufacturing 3D TVs......

And 3D on OLED is genuinely ATMOS for VIDEO when done right!

 

[jefe1]

Perhaps the value of atmos to us was it caused the dusting off of unreleased quad mixes for streaming that if we are lucky we may be able to buy one day. Such as Byrds 5D and others.....

 

[ar surround]

Not to mention, the already done, disappearance of, Auro 3D.

I like adding a bit of Auro 3D upmixing to quads and select 5.1 mixes. I actually installed the height speakers more to take advantage of Auro 3D upmixing than for Atmos releases. (So as per my axiom in post #4, that explains why Auro went bankrupt on us first. Sheesh!)

And to be totally honest, this listener is happier than a pig in sh*t when UK's Dutton Vocalion releases those old QUAD classics from the 70's in pristine remasterings on LOSSLESS SACD with vibrant phantom center channels ....... at near 70's prices as well!

Given that a DV twofer is about $14, one albums is $7. In August 1975 prices, that is $1.28. For those of us who were around back then, would you have paid ONE DOLLAR TWENTY-EIGHT CENTS for a high-res quad and high-res stereo layer with no clicks, no pops, no wow, no flutter, and mastered to the highest standards? You're darn tootin' I would!

 

[GOS]

And, I'm getting ready to cancel my Apple $9.99 a month service just to get the Atmos stuff. I'm never home, and when I am, I am overwhelmed by the inability to find quality Atmos content that I care bout. Atmos Physical discs? I'm all in, and will be till they pull the plug.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

And, I'm getting ready to cancel my Apple $9.99 a month service just to get the Atmos stuff. I'm never home, and when I am, I am overwhelmed by the inability to find quality Atmos content that I care bout. Atmos Physical discs? I'm all in, and will be till they pull the plug.

They certainly have a lot to improve on and not just song genres, including; overall user experience (functionality), sound quality (streaming compression) and apparent bad corporate decisions on the mix quality. So I totally understand where you're coming from on this.