Zappa - Apostrophe (50th anniversary set out in Sept!)

[shedsoundsmedia]

My thoughts !

 

[AudiophileStyle]

It's a strange one for the quad mix in a 5.1 24/48 container with silent center but not totally silent subwoofer. It's a 4.1 mix technically.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

It's a strange one for the quad mix in a 5.1 24/48 container with silent center but not totally silent subwoofer. It's a 4.1 mix technically.

I noticed that also.

and as someone else mentioned, it was advertised as 96Kx24b

 

[Matt Wilson]

GREAT GOOGLY MOOGLY ! This is a fantastic boxed set, an embarrassment of riches ! Here's my detailed thoughts.

Damn, are we promoting our youtube channels now? OK, here's one I did on Zappa about a month ago.

 

[Bob Romano]

It's a strange one for the quad mix in a 5.1 24/48 container with silent center but not totally silent subwoofer. It's a 4.1 mix technically.

View attachment 109364


View attachment 109365

What program shows the streams like that??

 

[Michael Marshall]

As with all these Zappa boxsets they are vastly overpriced but as it's Frank, they have me by the balls to keep spending my cash on them. The Blu Ray with the surround mixes is my real enticement to lay the extra 60 bucks they charging for it simply because in any CD package that comes in a Clamshell box such as this you can get anywhere from 4 to 6 CD's in one from 20 to 30 bucks. The Clamshell box was also originally designed to sell all or part of most bands and artists' discography on the cheap and for a package that costs 99 bucks, this is not cheap. I would even go as far as to say that the presentation totally SUCKS! and Franks's music is worthy of being treated better than this.

The surround mixes are to die for and as with any of these boxsets the extra live content on the CD's is killer though I should add that no way are the 5 CD's that come in this package worth any more than 20 to 30 bucks which is the genuine price point so the Zappa trust is obviously making a killing on these things. I should also add that there is no way I would lay out silly money like this if the boxset only contained CD's such as the Hot Rats boxset for example which did not interest me one bit, especially at the extortionate price they put it out for.

The one thing that is puzzling me right now is why with the multichannel content did they start with the Waka/Jawaka and Grand Wazoo from 1972, surely they must have the multichannel tapes for all the other albums that came before them.

The only Zappa/Mother's releases that were originally released in QUAD were "Overnight Sensation" and "Apostrophe". It is also my understanding that "Roxy" had a QUAD mix made but was never released for reasons unknown. And as far as pricing is concerned, this "value for the money" and "profitability" conversation has been going on for decades. Frank left Warner Brothers in 1977 when WB refused to release a "Lathur" as a 4 LP set as they told him "it wasn't profitable". IMO, this is a beautifully curated box set with sonically superior product that includes high rez and immersive content new to this release. All of this does cost significant money as it is NOT just a simple re-release. I am also anticipating the same discourse when people start to make their purchasing decisions on the new Talking Heads "77" deluxe box set with a suggested retail price of $99. The Zappa estate has managed to produce and release important and much loved (by us!) releases in the Zappa/Mother's music cannon in a timely and relevant pattern. I only wish others could/would do the same.

 

[stoopid]

PSA: This thread was started July 12 2024 and all the subsequent sale pricing posted over the past months should have been enough ammunition for anyone interested to get this for less than the list price. In some cases significantly less. Anyone complaining about the cost needs to put in the ounce of effort to catch presale pricing through the many available outlets. It's also worth noting that this set is loaded with content, so there's actual value here for the FZ fan. Also, while this isn't 'cheap' [realizing some people just want the bluray/surround mixes] it's also nowhere near as egregious as some other box/deluxe sets released in the history of such sets being manufactured. At least match outrage with actual reason to rage.

 

[shedsoundsmedia]

Current price is $95 on Amazon US, divided by 6 discs comes out to $16/ a disc, not including the booklet (which is excellent.)

The new Bowie Atmos Blu retails around $20, I think it’s actually decent value for money.

And for those of you who just want Atmos, the Atmos version does stream on Apple Music.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

What program shows the streams like that??

Looks like @HomerJAU’s Music Media Helper

 

[Intruder461]

The only Zappa/Mother's releases that were originally released in QUAD were "Overnight Sensation" and "Apostrophe". It is also my understanding that "Roxy" had a QUAD mix made but was never released for reasons unknown. And as far as pricing is concerned, this "value for the money" and "profitability" conversation has been going on for decades. Frank left Warner Brothers in 1977 when WB refused to release a "Lathur" as a 4 LP set as they told him "it wasn't profitable". IMO, this is a beautifully curated box set with sonically superior product that includes high rez and immersive content new to this release. All of this does cost significant money as it is NOT just a simple re-release. I am also anticipating the same discourse when people start to make their purchasing decisions on the new Talking Heads "77" deluxe box set with a suggested retail price of $99. The Zappa estate has managed to produce and release important and much loved (by us!) releases in the Zappa/Mother's music cannon in a timely and relevant pattern. I only wish others could/would do the same.

I know that it is only those albums that had Quad mixes but that does not stop them from doing 5.1 and Atmos mixes with the albums that come before them, the only thing that would stop them from doing them is if they never had the multitrack tapes and as Frank kept everything I cannot see that being the case. So it seems rather odd why they decided to start these new reissues from 1972. I also know that what they have done regarding the Atmos, Quad and Hi-Res mixes is excellent but it still does not measure up to the price point they are selling them at and the genuine price point of these boxsets with how they are presented should cost in the region of 40 to 50 bucks. If you are gonna sell them at this price then at least put them in a bigger box and include a hardback book like others do.

 

[jimfisheye]

The Zappa estate has managed to produce and release important and much loved (by us!) releases in the Zappa/Mother's music cannon in a timely and relevant pattern.

30 years after he passed away before we saw any 24 bit reissues and any quad reissues is timely?!

Don't get me wrong, I'm overjoyed to see the back catalog finally coming out in the original quality and beyond! The 12 channel remixes of Waka and Wazoo were as stunning as they were unexpected! Just... what year is it now? I've got pieces of my hunger for anything and everything he ever did scattered around here somewhere!

 

[jimfisheye]

as Frank kept everything

Frank did no such thing! He would reuse tape all the time. He only saved the recordings he cared about at the time. If he had fun at a certain show or had a project idea in mind with the recording. The archive is still beyond extensive but he trashed things all the time.

 

[bookofsaturdays]

So it seems rather odd why they decided to start these new reissues from 1972

I think it was more to do with the fact that it was the 50th anniversary of those albums and that they are prime candidates for multichannel remixes because of the nature of the music. I think the Waka Wazoo is the best one to have come out so far in terms of the surround mix itself.

I can’t imagine the earlier albums being recorded on either 4 or 8 track would be all that exciting in Atmos. I really hope they at least go back and do Chunga’s Revenge (8-track I’m guessing?) as that’s one of my favourite Zappa albums.

 

[steelydave]

It's a strange one for the quad mix in a 5.1 24/48 container with silent center but not totally silent subwoofer. It's a 4.1 mix technically.

This is for maximum compatibility - despite 4.0 and 4.1 (and many other channel configurations outside of 2.0 and 5.0/5.1) being fully within spec, support for them in AVRs and Blu-Ray players is far from uniform.

There have been several complaints of this nature from people with these issues with the Quadio discs (which are authored as 4.0) that highlight this problem. I can't remember all of the permutations, but some systems interpret 4.0 as 5.1 missing the last two channels (so you get the quad mix in Front Left, Center (content that should be in the Front Right), Front Right (content that should be in the Left Surround) and Rear Left (content that should be in the Right Surround) with a silent Rear Right, or it inteprets the 4.0 as 2.0 and ignores the rear channels entirely.

I get the purist approach that quad masters should be in a 4.0 container, but many of the AVRs that don't support 4.0 or 4.1 are old enough now that they don't get firmware updates any more so this issue will never be "fixed" for them.

By putting 4.0 in a 5.1 container with a derived LFE track you're ensuring that everyone can hear the mix as intended, and even people who have their main speakers set to 'large' will still get some subwoofer content. People with the ability to rip to files can always simply delete the C and/or LFE channels from their FLAC files, whereas people who exclusively rely on disc-based playback have no way of adding those channels to a disc that's authored without them.

 

[AudiophileStyle]

What program shows the streams like that??

Audacity shows the waveform and Music Media Helper shows the options in my ripped MKV.

 

[marpow]

I have had no problems ripping and listening, think I'll just go straight to Poll.

 

[Intruder461]

I think it was more to do with the fact that it was the 50th anniversary of those albums and that they are prime candidates for multichannel remixes because of the nature of the music. I think the Waka Wazoo is the best one to have come out so far in terms of the surround mix itself.

I can’t imagine the earlier albums being recorded on either 4 or 8 track would be all that exciting in Atmos. I really hope they at least go back and do Chunga’s Revenge (8-track I’m guessing?) as that’s one of my favourite Zappa albums.

The Hot Rats boxset was released on its 50th Anniversary in 2019 and had no Multichannel content at all, all you got was 6 CD's in a bigger box and it cost more money. I prefer the surround mixes on both Over-Nite Sensation and Apostrophe (') the Waka Wazoo blu ray was not mastered right and there is low level issues between the both albums in that boxset.

The good thing I will say about the Waka Wazoo boxset is that I managed to pick it up for £48 here in the UK plus you got two albums. Whereas the Over-Nite Sensation boxset cost me £73 and Apostrophe (') £83 and you only got one album in each boxset. Something certainly does not add up at all and no way would I pay that silly money for that Hot Rats boxset that comes with no multichannel content at all. It ain't no overnight sensation that's for sure and in my book is one big rip-off.

 

[JediJoker]

Got mine from the Zappa Store today. They tossed in some of these classics for free:

 

[Shermatz]

I'm disqualifying myself from voting because I'm not buying this, BUT let me express enthusiastic thumbs up for the OUTSTANDING packaging & knockout job curating & assembling all the audio & historical content for current fans to enjoy. This will surely be THE comprehensive edition of "Apostrophe" in our lifetimes & beyond.
Frank Zappa--exhibit "A" for the "not fir everyone" maxim. Thanks to my extremely tuned-in older brother (RIP), I dug into the full cornucopia of the '60's-70's Renaissance of pop/rock culture, INCLUDING "Freak Out" along with all the succeeding Mothers albums. I appreciated Zappa's dexterity as an underrated guitarist, along with his defiant individuality, which of course was especially appealing to me at age 12. Still, these were not albums that gave me much listening enjoyment, I gotta admit, and as time advanced, I became even more alienated by Zappa's abrasive persona & Hustler-mag level of humor. Very much "not for me." I can say, though, that I was able to see him live in Iowa City circa 1977, band at that time included Adrian Belew & Terry Bozzio. Decent show, there was never a moment onstage, though, that Frank wasn't puffing on a Winston or had one burning in a nearby ashtray.

 

[Rhinojack]

I was the same. My older brother had Freak Out and I remember thinking how odd the music was and how could someone might like it. Fast-forward 40 years and I have since bought the last three box sets and really appreciate it though never cared for the silly lyrics, but I like the orchestration the guitar jams and so forth. So far has it hasn’t really grab me like the other two, but I will continue to give it a chance.