7.1 - Side Vs. Rear Speakers

[timothyemerson]

My surrounds are at ~90 degrees and pointing directly at each other - no phase problems and I somehow still get surround effects where a sound appears to be coming from directly behind my head. Freaks me out sometimes, especially when it's an unexpected voice in a movie.

Even sitting off-centre when other people are present, I can still discern the surround action from the furthest surround speaker - but I tend to sit up straighter than most people so my earholes are probably just above their noggins.

I'd prefer to have my surrounds further back and toed-in towards my brain but that would mean switching the orientation of all my gear 90 degrees in my current room (not gonna happen) or building a new house.

 

[Sal1950]

or building a new house.

Yep, that's the problem for many if not most of us, we have to find ways to deal with the rooms we have. My side surrounds are about 1' behind the MLP and at about 100 degrees as pointed forward towards my ears.. I so wish I had room of rear surrounds but there's just no way. I've thought about a mono'd rear mounted to the wall behind me but there's no way to configure my AVP for that. If possible that might be an interesting arrangement.
I am thrilled to have my 4 ceiling SVS Prime Elevations for Atmos/Auro, they are providing an awesome listening experience with the right material.

 

[PaulnotstPeter]

Yep, that's the problem for many if not most of us, we have to find ways to deal with the rooms we have. My side surrounds are about 1' behind the MLP and at about 100 degrees as pointed forward towards my ears.. I so wish I had room of rear surrounds but there's just no way. I've thought about a mono'd rear mounted to the wall behind me but there's no way to configure my AVP for that. If possible that might be an interesting arrangement.
I am thrilled to have my 4 ceiling SVS Prime Elevations for Atmos/Auro, they are providing an awesome listening experience with the right material.

How high are they? I am still yet to set up my back 2, but intend to soon.

 

[Sal1950]

How high are they? I am still yet to set up my back 2, but intend to soon.

Attached to an 8' ceiling.

 

[MidiMagic]

Attached to an 8' ceiling.
View attachment 80804

Let me guess. The fan is used to stir the sound.

 

[PK]

...and this is where I have to thank @LuvMyQuad for selling me his unused MiniDSP NanoAVR box, it's incredibly handy being able to change channel assignments on-the-fly with the built-in routing menu. I've got various presets for 7.1/Atmos, 5.1/4.0 Dolby Audio, 5.1 with the center info sent to the fronts, 4.0 with bass management, etc.

View attachment 80754

Is it this one?
https://www.minidsp.com/images/documents/Product Brief-nanoAVR.pdf

 

[Sal1950]

Let me guess. The fan is used to stir the sound.

When on High, it adds a nice vibrato sound to the immersion.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Is it this one?
https://www.minidsp.com/images/documents/Product Brief-nanoAVR.pdf

That's what I sold him, unfortunately its been discontinued and hasn't been replaced with anything that's quite the same.

 

[PK]

That's what I sold him, unfortunately its been discontinued and hasn't been replaced with anything that's quite the same.

Bummer

 

[esimms86]

Let me guess. The fan is used to stir the sound.

With every playback it turns everything into a unique upmix. Even cooler when you spin it counterclockwise.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

With every playback it turns everything into a unique upmix. Even cooler when you spin it counterclockwise.

Then you hear a faint ghostly echo from the heights.... Number Nine... Number Nine... Number Nine

 

[RustyStatic]

FYI for those interested in a potential solution to handling 4.0 and 5.1 mixes with a 7.x.x speaker setup, some folks were helping me geek out about that in another thread (5.2.2 vs. 5.2.4?) and linked to this one...

In thinking through what I thought would be an ideal solution short of an AVR being able to do this on-board and/or on-the-fly, I found something I've ordered and am going to mess with (and will report back on)—but I won't be able to really test it out until my speakers arrive from overseas so it's going to be a while. But I thought it might be helpful to share for others wrestling with it in the present since apparently the nanoAVR is no more:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002C99DW8?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
Looks like with this device you can:

1. Run the speaker output from the AVR Surround and Rear Surround Pairs into this box, then continue on to the speaker pairs
2. Decide which speakers you want to send those sources to depending on your preference that day, including such interesting sacrilege as perhaps running the 5.1 mix rears to BOTH sets of speakers...
3. That gets even more interesting when you can manually adjust the levels in both pairs, which could create quite an immersive effect (even though it's unorthodox) with emphasis in the locale of your preference...
4. But critically, the manual level adjustment allows you to tinker in real-time with an easy knob twist instead of fiddling in the AVR menu(s), and also very quickly compensate for distance changes between the Surrounds and Rears as well

YMMV but I thought it worth sharing here too in case it's helpful. I'm gambling for $99, and will report back when I can really test it out.

 

[AYanguas]

...
2. Decide which speakers you want to send those sources to depending on your preference that day, including such interesting sacrilege as perhaps running the 5.1 mix rears to BOTH sets of speakers...
...

This “sacrilege” is done by design by some AVRs (like Denon) when signal is DTS 5.1 (either normal or DTS-HD MA). Both surround pairs are fired and it is indicated also in the AVR OSD display of active speakers.

This is to emulate 5.1 rears location, that use to be at higher azimuth angle than the “side” surrounds in a 7.1 that use to be at 90-100º

The volume level is compensated and the AVR outputs about half for each speaker to keep the right overall volume level.

Other 5.1 signals, PCM, Dolby AC-3, etc. output the 5.1 rears to the side surrounds on 7.1. Only DTS does it right. I mean 'sacrilege'.

 

[RustyStatic]

FWIW that unit arrived today (from Crutchfield: OSD SSVC2) and it doesn't work as I had hoped. I am not an expert with these things but I can't get any sound out of the speakers I connect to it and my guess is it's a power thing since it says it's designed for use with a receiver or amplifier that has a maximum power of 100 watts per channel at 8 ohms and I'm pushin' 140w with my Marantz. Nothin' but silence. Worth a shot...

 

[Sonik Wiz]

FWIW that unit arrived today (from Crutchfield: OSD SSVC2) and it doesn't work as I had hoped. I am not an expert with these things but I can't get any sound out of the speakers I connect to it and my guess is it's a power thing since it says it's designed for use with a receiver or amplifier that has a maximum power of 100 watts per channel at 8 ohms and I'm pushin' 140w with my Marantz. Nothin' but silence. Worth a shot...

I wouldn't guess it's a power thing. That 100 watt rating is the max through put it can take before something internal getting too hot. You'd be surprised how rarely a amp, MCH or otherwise, reaches it's peak rated level.

I hope you get it figure out. Check hook up again & then one more time. Push more buttons.

 

[RustyStatic]

I wouldn't guess it's a power thing. That 100 watt rating is the max through put it can take before something internal getting too hot. You'd be surprised how rarely a amp, MCH or otherwise, reaches it's peak rated level.

I hope you get it figure out. Check hook up again & then one more time. Push more buttons.

Righto - I keep messing with it but can’t get a peep out of it. Weird. It also seems weird that it doesn’t have its own power supply, not that I can articulate why…

 

[Sonik Wiz]

Righto - I keep messing with it but can’t get a peep out of it. Weird. It also seems weird that it doesn’t have its own power supply, not that I can articulate why…

It doesn't need a PS because it's essentially a passive device. Push button switches and L Pads behind the knobs. L Pads are like volume control potentiometers but made to handle higher power (100 watts in this case) and keep a constant impedance as seen by the amp no mater where you rotate the controls to.

Edit: Do you need to change something in your AVR's set up menu to make sure it is actually outputting to the desired speaker channels?

 

[Sal1950]

FWIW that unit arrived today (from Crutchfield: OSD SSVC2) and it doesn't work as I had hoped. I am not an expert with these things but I can't get any sound out of the speakers I connect to it and my guess is it's a power thing since it says it's designed for use with a receiver or amplifier that has a maximum power of 100 watts per channel at 8 ohms and I'm pushin' 140w with my Marantz. Nothin' but silence. Worth a shot...

What did you expect it to do?
You connect you receivers L & R speaker wires to one of it's inputs, say input A
Then connect your speakers to Output 1 L & R
Turn on the receiver and the L side on/off switch, set push button for A
Still no sound from speakers?

 

[RustyStatic]

What did you expect it to do?
You connect you receivers L & R speaker wires to one of it's inputs, say input A
Then connect your speakers to Output 1 L & R
Turn on the receiver and the L side on/off switch, set push button for A
Still no sound from speakers?

Right, even a direct pass through like that isn’t giving me any sound, the box just swallows it up. I don’t get it. I’m not super busted up, I can return it and what I’ve got going is fine. Also, wiring that thing is a mighty pain in the ass; you need a little micro screwdriver for every single connection; my eyes were going blurry.

 

[RustyStatic]

It doesn't need a PS because it's essentially a passive device. Push button switches and L Pads behind the knobs. L Pads are like volume control potentiometers but made to handle higher power (100 watts in this case) and keep a constant impedance as seen by the amp no mater where you rotate the controls to.

Edit: Do you need to change something in your AVR's set up menu to make sure it is actually outputting to the desired speaker channels?

I tested the 7.2.4 setup and all was working fine, then re-routed and everything else was firing (LR, C, 4 heights, subs) except the rears and surrounds I ran through the box. Then when I couldn’t get a sound I wired it back and it worked fine. Beats me.

Only other thing is it says it accepts “up to 14 gauge wire” and I’m using 12… I got it in there without issue though, so I can’t imagine that’d be the problem.