Amazon Firestick 4K Max for Surround Music

[HomerJAU]

...and just to be sure, is this the link to the proper device on Amazon Canada?

Reminder not to buy the Amazon Ethernet adapter as it’s only 100Mb. You need a 1GBE for 4K BD rips. I linked the one I use in 3rd post here. You can search for that Amazon part number on CA. That will give you a max of 480mb per sec (limited by the FTVs usb 2.0 port)

 

[HomerJAU]

I built the latest Kodi Android from today’s source and confirm it now plays 24 bit audio and all my Quad test files correctly (Quad in 5.1, Quad in a 5 channel file with silent C and 4 channel files regardless of channel mapping) on the FTV 4K Max.

Kodi on the Amazon Fire Stick 4K Max 2nd gen 2023 plays everything I have tested we need an QQ: From Atmos TrueHD, Atmos JOC, DTS-HDMA through to 5.1 and Quad FLAC at 24/192kHz, DSF files (converted by Kodi to PCM) . Two thumbs up!

My own build currently adds ALL the Kodi add-ons so the installer package becomes huge. So I won't update my zip file for this FTV project until the next official Kodi v21 Android nightly build is done (probably tomorrow) - the installer is 70MB smaller without all the add-ons.

Edit: Added ‘DSF files (converted by Kodi to PCM)’ - 24 Jan

Edit: I just took a look again at the Android developer docs and the Kodi Android audio code. It looks to me that enabling MPEG-H 3D Passthrough should be fairly straight forward (same with AC-4 and DSD). But with MPEG-H I have no way to test as my two AVRs don‘t have decoders. I‘d need someone with a new AVR with MPEG-H 3D decoding and a FTV 4K Max to do the testing (reinstall a new Kodi build each time I do code changes until I can nail it or prove I can’t do it). Another Edit: FTV 4K Max not at high enough SDK version to do this yet (see later posts).

 

[Eclectic]

A quick question before I pull the trigger on this device. Will it work to just leave it running Kodi permanently, so I can control it from my phone using Yatse without turning on my TV? I have done this with NUCs and Raspberry Pis running OSMC, but I'm looking to replace my Pi 4, which has never worked to my satisfaction. Thanks!

 

[HomerJAU]

It should be ok. The FTV never turns itself off it just goes to sleep. You may need to wake it up with its remote but Kodi would still be running so you should be able to get it to play something. You can probably setup the FTV to run Kodi on FTV startup too.

I use a couple of iPhone/iPad apps to control Kodi. I’ve never used Yatse.

Edit: The new 4K Max is not in stock at Amazon US, only the old gen 1 4K Max. My advice it to wait for the new (Gen 2 2023 model) @Eclectic

 

[Eclectic]

Thanks for the quick reply, and for all of the work that you've done on this. Strangely, I am seeing stock on Amazon (Amazon.com). I'll order one and let you know how it goes.

 

[HomerJAU]

That link is the new model (2GHz) but it shows here a temp out of stock.

 

[MrSmithers]

Edit: I just took a look again at the Android developer docs and the Kodi Android audio code. It looks to me that enabling MPEG-H 3D Passthrough should be fairly straight forward (same with AC-4 and DSD). But with MPEG-H I have no way to test as my two AVRs don‘t have decoders. I‘d need someone with a new AVR with MPEG-H 3D decoding and a FTV 4K Max to do the testing (reinstall a new Kodi build each time I do code changes until I can nail it or prove I can’t do it).

I can test for Kodi MPEG-H passthrough Garry. I only have a Chromecast HD for the moment but should be the same across all Android devices capable of MPEG-H. I'm thinking of getting a Firestick 4K Max as well.

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

That link is the new model (2GHz) but it shows here a temp out of stock.

Yep, same here...

NOTE:
For anyone interested, Amazon UK is showing stock (at £69.00): https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0BTFSYWWB

 

[audioWolf212]

I‘d need someone with a new AVR with MPEG-H 3D decoding and a FTV 4K Max to do the testing (reinstall a new Kodi build each time I do code changes until I can nail it or prove I can’t do it).

Happy to help, time permitting. I'm off on a work trip later this week, but could probably do a FTV test next week.

 

[audioWolf212]

I’m not sure except that maybe you don’t have the latest 2nd Gen 4K Max? @audioWolf212 was the user that confirmed 360 was playing on his FTV. Maybe he can confirm any settings (FTV and AVR).

@CINERAMAX Yes, I have confirmed 360RA (MPEG-H) decoding working with 2nd Gen 4K Max. I'm using a Denon AVR-X3800H. I don't recall there being much I had to do. Here's a couple things to confirm with your setup/content:

1. You need the "Unlimited" subscription to Amazon Music, not the basic version that comes with Prime
2. You have "spatial audio" turned on in the settings of the Amazon Music app on the Fire TV
3. You have the AVR set to the proper decoding/upmix setting (on mine the bottom of the remote has buttons for "Movie", "Music" etc. that give different settings).
4. Double check that the song you're playing is actually available in 360RA. If you're searching for content, use the mobile app rather than the Fire TV app, and check for the "360" tag next to each track (I've seen some albums where some, but not all tracks are in 360 or Atmos). My preferred workflow is to search for content in the iOS app, add them to a playlist, and then cue up the playlist in the Fire TV app.
5. In the Fire TV app, while a song is playing, you can choose to display the technical details of the song, which will show the format that's actually playing, and it will also confirm if it thinks your AVR is capable of decoding Atmos or 360.

Let me know if this helps, or if you have any other trouble shooting questions!

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

@audioWolf212,

Why do you need to set the AVR to perform 'upmixing'? Can't the AVR automatically detect the type of audio stream?

I've never been a fan of AVR's applying features such as audio up-mixing and video up-scaling by default!

 

[himey]

Let me know if this helps, or if you have any other trouble shooting questions!

I thought the question was if it works using Kodi?

 

[stormchaser]

Help me out here if folks don't mind. I have an older Amazon Fire TV 4k stick. WHY would I want this? Does this send out higher bitrate to the AVR than the older stick that I have?

 

[himey]

Help me out here if folks don't mind. I have an older Amazon Fire TV 4k stick. WHY would I want this? Does this send out higher bitrate to the AVR than the older stick that I have?

That stick doesn't do 5.1 lossless any longer for one.

 

[HomerJAU]

Help me out here if folks don't mind. I have an older Amazon Fire TV 4k stick. WHY would I want this? Does this send out higher bitrate to the AVR than the older stick that I have?

The new Gen 2 has a newer Android SDK version, I think. A recent change in Kodi now allows Kodi to send 24bit MCH audio (previously always 16 bit) and there is also a fix for Kodi to play quad files. The 24bit support requires recent Android, how recent I don’t know yet.

Without testing your 4K Max (Gen 1) we don’t know if that device supports 24 bit MCH audio in Kodi. Or whether you use Kodi already or plan to use it.

If you aren’t interested in Kodi to play your MCH files then there is no need to update to the latest 4K Max, although Gen 2 is faster and has more app storage space.

EDIT: The Gen 2 plays MPEG-H 3D (Sony RA360) from Amazon Music - thats not listed in Gen 1 specs.

 

[HomerJAU]

I thought the question was if it works using Kodi?

No. How to play Amazon Music MPEG-H on the FTV with its Amazon Music app.

Kodi doesn’t play MPEG-H (yet).

 

[HomerJAU]

I can test for Kodi MPEG-H passthrough Garry. I only have a Chromecast HD for the moment but should be the same across all Android devices capable of MPEG-H. I'm thinking of getting a Firestick 4K Max as well.

The Cromecast HD probably doesn’t support 24bit audio (too old I think) and it may not support MPEG-H either. I think a FTV 4K Max would be preferred. From what I can gather Kodi sends the audio stream via pass-through to the Android audio system with a ‘MPEG-H’ flag then Android decides what it sends to HDMI. I suspect older versions of Android may puke if it doesn’t recognise the flag, mind you I’ve only taken a brief look so far. I’ll deep dive today.

I’d rather rule that out and use the FTV, unless your chromecast can do MPEG-H?

 

[audioWolf212]

@audioWolf212,

Why do you need to set the AVR to perform 'upmixing'? Can't the AVR automatically detect the type of audio stream?

I've never been a fan of AVR's applying features such as audio up-mixing and video up-scaling by default!

You don't, but that's the menu where "Stereo", "Mutli-channel", "Atmos" etc. is selected. The AVR is sometimes able to select the correct mode based on the bit-stream, but I have found results to be inconsistent.

 

[MrSmithers]

The Cromecast HD probably doesn’t support 24bit audio (too old I think) and it may not support MPEG-H either. I think a FTV 4K Max would be preferred. From what I can gather Kodi sends the audio stream via pass-through to the Android audio system with a ‘MPEG-H’ flag then Android decides what it sends to HDMI. I suspect older versions of Android may puke if it doesn’t recognise the flag, mind you I’ve only taken a brief look so far. I’ll deep dive today.

I’d rather rule that out and use the FTV, unless your chromecast can do MPEG-H?

Yeah it supports MPEG-H but doesn't support True-HD so a bit rubbish in that regard for Atmos. This is why it wasn't playing those lossless Atmos files I realise now. I'm going to order a FTV 4K Max as soon as it gets back in stock, but in the meantime it might still work with passthrough MPEG-H on Kodi, as it works with the iRZ MPEG-H player. One thing to look out for is if you can add playback for mha1 encoded files as well as mhm1 files? As mhm1 is the only variety that seems to work properly on other apps for the moment....

 

[HomerJAU]

More news after deep diving into Android audio support MPEG-H 3D in Kodi Android

The FTV 4K Max 2nd Gen (current) is Android 11 which uses API version 30.

We need API 31 to do MPEG-H 3D (Android 12), so I'm going to stop further work on getting Kodi to passthrough MPEG-H until there is an FTV firmware update to Android 12 or a new FTV is released with Android 12.

(The modified Amazon Music player does play MPEG-H, maybe I should at that to see what they did...)

The new Kodi build for the FTV (with 24bit audio and Quad) is due is 2 hrs. I'll upload the new zip then.