Atmos vs 5.1

[hipp]

Only the bonus tracks on the HoJo are ATMOS, the releases themselves are 5.1.

Apologies. Getting confused with all the new Blue Rays!
You are quite correct.
The 5.1 mixes are what I am referring to. The ATMOS bonus tracks are not great either.
The Paul Young, No Parlez Blue Ray, which is a similar Genre, I think is however excellent. Atmos and 5.1 and stereo. Worth comparing these 2 Blue Ray Disks' multichannel mixes.

 

[himey]

Are you thinking 5.1.4 is greater than 7.1

Yes.

 

[Malhomme]

To begin with it is pretty hard to understand how the atmos mix is broadcasted for a speific record.
5.1.2 ? 5.1.4 ? 7.1.2 . 7.14 ?
Not everyone can go directly from 5.1 to 7.1.4. Not to mention it will ruin your living room

 

[himey]

It is on my Arcam AVR31. And I know it is actually doing something rather than just saying Atmos because the DSOTM Atmos goes from being an indistinct mess to sounding sensible with good localisation of effects eg cash register and alarm clocks. Similarly the test tones on the DSOTM disc go from WTF? to coming out where I'd expect on a 5.0 system.

It is probably receiver dependent. I software decode all my Atmos so I am not familiar with them but always curious. Maybe some others can chime in with different receivers set to 5.1 and see if they get an Atmos option, or just DDTrueHD.

 

[Owen Smith]

To begin with it is pretty hard to understand how the atmos mix is broadcasted for a speific record.
5.1.2 ? 5.1.4 ? 7.1.2 . 7.14 ?
Not everyone can go directly from 5.1 to 7.1.4. Not to mention it will ruin your living room

The number of height speakers is not part of the encoding. The Atmos objects are all encoded with information saying where they appear in space. The playback device then decides how to play those back using the speakers you have in your system. So while 5.1 to 7.1 involves an extra two channels on the disc, it doesn't matter whether you have 2, 4 or 6 height speakers the encoding on the disc is the same.

Whether the mixer takes full advantage of that or whether they just assume 7.1.4 and the mix doesn't benefit from more height speakers is a different issue.

 

[himey]

To begin with it is pretty hard to understand how the atmos mix is broadcasted for a speific record.
5.1.2 ? 5.1.4 ? 7.1.2 . 7.14 ?
Not everyone can go directly from 5.1 to 7.1.4. Not to mention it will ruin your living room

Read this...

 

[Sal1950]

Not to mention it will ruin your living room

How do you figure that ???

 

[himey]

The ATMOS bonus tracks are not great either.

I have been staying at my parents over the summer and they don't have Atmos, only 5.1. I have been listening to tons of Atmos mixes in 5.1, and I think they sound great. The new Styx, One Hand Clapping, Crowded House, Daryl Hall, Daft Punk, Robin Trower, Sister Sledge. I am starting to come around on the Prince after 4 listens...

 

[LuvMyQuad]

It is on my Arcam AVR31. And I know it is actually doing something rather than just saying Atmos because the DSOTM Atmos goes from being an indistinct mess to sounding sensible with good localisation of effects eg cash register and alarm clocks. Similarly the test tones on the DSOTM disc go from WTF? to coming out where I'd expect on a 5.0 system.

That's interesting. So you are finding that when using an Atmos decoder, the result of a mixdown of the 7.1 to 5.0 is substantially different from a non Atmos mixdown from 7.1 to 5.0.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

I have been staying at my parents over the summer and they don't have Atmos, only 5.1. I have been listening to tons of Atmos mixes in 5.1, and I think they sound great. The new Styx, One Hand Clapping, Crowded House, Daryl Hall, Daft Punk, Robin Trower, Sister Sledge. I am starting to come around on the Prince after 4 listens...

That is my experience as well.

 

[himey]

That's interesting. So you are finding that when using an Atmos decoder, the result of a mixdown of the 7.1 to 5.0 is substantially different from a non Atmos mixdown from 7.1 to 5.0.

No. I think he is comparing the Dolby Digital True HD track to decoding the Atmos of the Dolby Digital True HD track, and outputting as 5.1. See the difference?

edit...
I think we are saying the same thing. My bad.

 

[himey]

That is my experience as well.

Eventually I am going to upgrade to a 4K receiver for my parents, and if that comes with the added benefit of better Atmos sound, on their 5.1 setup, it would make the upgrade more urgent, although it does sound really good now.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

No. I think he is comparing the Dolby Digital True HD track to decoding the Atmos of the Dolby Digital True HD track, and outputting as 5.1. See the difference?

edit...
I think we are saying the same thing. My bad.

I think we are too.

So if what Owen says is correct, the Atmos processor is doing something beyond just a simple combination of the rear and side surrounds.

 

[himey]

I think we are too.

So if what Owen says is correct, the Atmos processor is doing something beyond just a simple combination of the rear and side surrounds.

It is actually decoding the Atmos with the metadata and outputting 5.1, rather than what a DolbyDigitalTrueHD only receiver (no Atmos) would do, and just decode the 5.1, and ignore the metadata.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

It is actually decoding the Atmos with the metadata and outputting 5.1, rather than what a DolbyDigitalTrueHD only receiver (no Atmos) would do, and just decode the 5.1, and ignore the metadata.

Yes. I want to know more. @Owen Smith , can you describe the results better? What happens with those PF test tones with no Atmos processing?

 

[Sal1950]

Yes. I want to know more. @Owen Smith , can you describe the results better? What happens with those PF test tones with no Atmos processing?

I don't have any answers here but only want to mention that AFAIK it's been pretty well covered that the Pink Floyd DSOTM Atmos mix got something wrong in the rear surround and side surround base 7.1 mix. I don't think it can be used as any general example of Atmos mixdown?
I could be wrong?

 

[HomerJAU]

When I flipped it to 5.1 I was stunned on the difference. Fuller, brighter and more surround sound coming from my system

Atmos will be at a lower volume than the dedicated 5.1 mix. If you boost the volume during Atmos playback they will sound more alike.

If your AVR does not have a TrueHD decoder your Atmos playback will not be lossless like the dedicated 5.1 mix. You may be sensitive to the difference. If your AVR does not have a Dolby Digital Plus decoder your Atmos playback will the AC3 (likely a lower data rate than DDplus which has better encoding too).

 

[madscot]

Not to worry... Do you remember how well the BRD-A's 5.1 DTS-HD MA track compared to your DVD-A/V?

Very similar, i’d say they were the same mix, not sure a new 5.1 was made to go on the atmos disc

 

[Bill B]

Just wondering….
I don’t pay attention to what’s out there for streaming, so has anyone done an Atmos mix for Boston’s S/T album yet?

 

[Owen Smith]

I don't have any answers here but only want to mention that AFAIK it's been pretty well covered that the Pink Floyd DSOTM Atmos mix got something wrong in the rear surround and side surround base 7.1 mix. I don't think it can be used as any general example of Atmos mixdown?
I could be wrong?

Correct, even @jimfisheye and myself agree there is something wrong with the base 7.1 in the Atmos on DSOTM. It isn't a good example of how Atmos will sound on a 5.x system (I have 5.0). But since it is so screwed up, it is a good way of proving that my AVR is actually decoding the Atmos and then rendering it to the speakers I have. Plus the DSOTM Atmos test tones are the only ones I have, I wish more discs would include some.

I still maintain that in an ideal world, rendering Atmos to 7.x or 5.x should sound identical to ignoring the Atmos data and just playing the True HD as 7.x or 5.x.