Bi wiring speakers (not bi amping!) Do you?

[barfle]

26 pairs???? Good luck keeping track of them.

That’s why God invented wire labels.

 

[mandrix]

The reason I started this thread was to see if there were situations that bi - wiring was done for particular reasons, and if so what the reason is.
Bi - amping is something else entirely, and as I have never done it I purposely omitted it from the questions, but feel free to post on that also if you wish.

After some searching I found a YouTube video where he includes block diagrams that explain what goes on when you bi - wire I thought pretty helpful:

 

[LB-V]

I've bi-amped since the late seventies and would never go back!

See, I was totally happy with my single amp set up, now I'm excited to try a bi-amp set up! $$$$

This site is dangerous!

 

[LB-V]

That is interesting that bi-amping is noticeable because it is my understanding that Klipsch speakers are inherently very efficient beasts.

I can vouch for that...what a love - hate relationship I have with my Klipsch RF-7's!
Theres been many a late night trying hard to identify sources of a noise floor with the efficiency of the speaker, but really enjoy the sound.

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

A friend of mine has an old stereo Rotel bi-wired amplifier along with a pair of Mission bi-wired speakers. His wife hates seeing the speaker cables!

Wasn't it a 90/00's marketing thing? Indeed, how many companies still manufacture bi-wired gear?

 

[AudiophileStyle]

It was another marketing exercise from the speaker cable manufacturers to get yet more money out of people!

If I follow you correctly, the cable companies met with the loudspeaker companies, convinced them to increase the cost and complexity of their loudspeakers, so the cable manufacturers would get more money out of people?

 

[DrKlahn]

Bi wiring IMO is placebo. Same amp going into the same crossover network. All it does is eliminate the jumper and introduce another run of speaker wire. I've never heard a difference in testing and the blind tests people on AVS have done found no differences.

Bi amping can make a difference. You might want an amp with certain characteristics addressing differing loads. For example you might want a very low distortion high quality amp handling the voicing while a higher distortion, higher wattage amp drives the low end where the power is needed.

Personally I've never heard anything with the Parasound Halos driving the base 7 layer speakers to make me think they were inadequate and bi-amping was needed. If you think your setup has issues that bi-amping may address, I'd advocate just investing in a better overall amp. Much easier to get sounding right.

 

[relaxing]

I recall (but never worked with) a speaker system that used "motional feedback." It supposedly had a mirror on the cone and a lamp and sensor that would provide feedback to the amplifier from the actual motion of the cone. I think it died young, but an interesting idea.

They call these call servo drivers. There’s a few different schemes for detecting motion and correcting distortion.

 

[Owen Smith]

Bi - amping is something else entirely, and as I have never done it I purposely omitted it from the questions, but feel free to post on that also if you wish.

I bi-amp my left/right Castle Harlech S1 floorstanders, originally with my Arcam AVR350 and now with my Arcam AVR31. Both AVRs have 7 channels of amplification and I have a 5.0 system, the AVRs have an option to bi-amp L/R so doing this only costs me speaker cable. I don't know if I would bi-amp if I had to buy extra amps to do it. However sound quality definitely improved when I re-cabled for bi-amping L/R, most noticeable on female vocals and solo piano bizarrely.

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

I bi-amp my left/right Castle Harlech S1 floorstanders, originally with my Arcam AVR350 and now with my Arcam AVR31. Both AVRs have 7 channels of amplification and I have a 5.0 system, the AVRs have an option to bi-amp L/R so doing this only costs me speaker cable.

How does this work?

 

[Owen Smith]

How does this work?

There's a configuration option in the AVR for what use the channels 6&7 amps have. They can be: rears, front heights, zone 2, or biamp L+R.

When set to biamp L+R channels 6&7 output the same as channels 1&2, it doesn't matter which ones you use for the woofers and which for the tweeters. You must however take the shorting links out of the speaker crossovers, otherwise the amps will be driving each other. With the shorting links out on the speaker crossovers, the tweeters are driven through a high pass filter and the woofers through a low pass filter.

The main claimed benefit of bi-amping is any clipping in the woofer amps is not heard because the signal does not go to the tweeters. And because the tweeters draw so little current the amps for them run in a very benign mode, in my case with Arcam Class G amps the tweeter amps will run in the regime with correction to emulate Class A.

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

There's a configuration option in the AVR for what use the channels 6&7 amps have. They can be: rears, front heights, zone 2, or biamp L+R.

That's quite ingenious...

 

[par4ken]

When set to biamp L+R channels 6&7 output the same as channels 1&2, it doesn't matter which ones you use for the woofers and which for the tweeters. You must however take the shorting links out of the speaker crossovers, otherwise the amps will be driving each other. With the shorting links out on the speaker crossovers, the tweeters are driven through a high pass filter and the woofers through a low pass filter.

That is really no different than bi-wiring.

To biamp properly thus getting full benefit the filter network needs to go before the amplifier.

Amplifying the full range signal then feeding a passive filter network and speaker would be of very little benefit.

 

[Owen Smith]

That is really no different than bi-wiring.

The industry disagrees, what I'm doing is what the industry calls bi-amping.

To biamp properly thus getting full benefit the filter network needs to go before the amplifier.

Given the filter needs to be tailored to the speaker drivers, you are not likely to find that approach in much apart from active speakers.

Amplifying the full range signal then feeding a passive filter network and speaker would be of very little benefit.

It is clearly audible to me. The tweeter amps are driving very little current. The woofer amps don't have to worry about transients being reproduced by the tweeters.

 

[mandrix]

I can only go with what I can hear. My 4 Polk Monitor 30 overhead speakers allow for bi wiring. In the past they were part of my pc audio system, but now incorporated into my Atmos system.
I did not hear any gains from bi wiring that I could tell when they were part of my pc audio system, and this was using an AVR for output, not a sound card.
As for bi amping, I have never done that, although my AVR allows for it in a more limited speaker configuration.

 

[Owen Smith]

I did not hear any gains from bi wiring that I could tell when they were part of my pc audio system, and this was using an AVR for output, not a sound card.

I bi wired a long time ago for my main left/right and I heard no improvement.

 

[par4ken]

I fail to see how so called passive bi-amping has any advantage over bi-wiring. Only by using an active filter can you achieve the full potential of the idea. If you look at a typical music waveform with a scope you will see the high frequencies riding on top of a much larger bass waveform. It is clear to see that by separating the two that terrible clipping distortion (mostly of the high end) can be eliminated. The high frequency amplifier does not even have to be the same power as the bass amp.

The industry does and says some ridiculous things. I find the terms horizontal and vertical bi-amping to be amusing and mostly unnecessary terms. I would suggest to almost always use "horizontal" bi-amping. Passive bi-amping really is “fool’s bi-amping”. I cant believe that it has become a thing. If one can afford extra amplifiers why not add an active crossover?

Bi-wirings advantage is that it is cheap, just the cost of extra speaker wire.

 

[barfle]

They call these call servo drivers. There’s a few different schemes for detecting motion and correcting distortion.

Yeah, I’ve sen a few myself, including a feedback coil. Lots of interesting ideas out there, even if they are impractical. Done a few myself, alas.

 

[Owen Smith]

I find the terms horizontal and vertical bi-amping to be amusing and mostly unnecessary terms.

I've never heard those terms before, what do they mean please?

If one can afford extra amplifiers why not add an active crossover?

Where would one purchase an active crossover? That is correctly tailored to the speakers in use? I've never seen such a thing advertised within the domestic hifi scene.

 

[Owen Smith]

I should add I'm fully aware of how good active speakers can be. I have two pairs of these Dynaudio Xeo3 for the kitchen and study, they have active DSP crossovers and separate class D power amps for tweeters and woofers and they sound great:

https://dynaudio.com/discontinued-models/xeo/xeo-3