Billy Joel's "52nd Street" 40th Anniversary Limited Edition Coming in Oct. '18

[Mesozoic Mike]

I hear you. I've come up with a sort-of solution that works for me. Most of these weird packaging schemes seem to be for albums I already had on CD. So I've bought a bunch of the double CD jewel cases from Amazon and I transfer all the CD packaging over to the double jewel case and add the new hi res audio disc. I've done this with dozens of albums.

That is a good idea. I'll try that. Thanks.

 

[Scott65]

Now from a technical standpoint...Streetlife Serenade checks most of the surround mix checklist...EXCEPT...the content just isn't anywhere near 52nd Street...I do like several songs and have "warmed" up to the album in general...but it will never equal 52nd Street...and when I listen to 52nd Street I don't get caught up in the surround mix...I just bask in the music itself..

Totally agree. Just got my copy of 52nd Street today and enjoying it a lot.

 

[JediJoker]

For the wav file view fans, here's a look at "My Life" in Sound Forge. Top is the new, bottom is the old:

View attachment 36199

Any chance you could try a null test, Jon? That would be proof positive, assuming the track timing is the same.

 

[key_wiz]

I gather Streetlife is considered one of his more lightweight albums (even by Joel himself, IIRC) but personally I prefer it to 52nd Street as an album let alone a surround mix. As for 52nd Street, IIRC, it didn't sound as discrete to me as The Stranger.

I don't consider Streetlife "lightweight", but I do consider it an early album of his where he is still finding his feet, both with his songwriting and his sound. And it's pretty well-known that he wasn't happy with the degree of control the label put on him with the recording of both that album and "Piano Man". With "Turnstiles" he left LA to record that album at Caribou Studios using Elton John's band with James William Guercio producing. (Would love to hear THOSE tracks!) He was unhappy with the results and went to New York to record the album with his touring band and producing it himself. I think all of those early albums are a progression of him growing as a writer and artist and then truly finding his voice with "The Stranger" with Phil Ramone producing.

Each of those early albums have their charms and their uneven spots. I think "Streetlife" is a stronger album overall than "Piano Man" but gets overlooked because it didn't have any big hits or "big" songs. Nothing from that album gets played on the radio anymore or probably live. But it's a more even album from start to finish than "Piano Man" and his songwriting is really starting to flourish on this album. I much prefer it to "Piano Man" which is basically the title track, Captain Jack, Billy the Kid and a LOT of filler, IMO.

"52nd Street" I hear as an attempt to match "The Stranger" --- maybe the only time in his career he actively tried to repeat himself stylistically -- (it's a jazzier, slicker "The Stranger", IMO) but in many ways I like it more. The big hits on the album have been way overplayed, but "Zanzibar", "Stiletto" and "Rosalinda's Eyes" are 3 of my all-time favorite Joel tracks.

I can't wait for my disc from Japan to arrive. ( I chose slow/cheap shipping, so it will be a few weeks most likely) I hope there are no issues with the disc. I've heard the mix before. Yeah, it's not a revelation of discreetness, but it's a nice, full, modern sounding 5.1 mix.

 

[key_wiz]

Any chance you could try a null test, Jon? That would be proof positive, assuming the track timing is the same.

I suppose he could, but looking at those two screenshots, there really isn't any doubt those are the exact same mix. And most likely the same mastering.

 

[JediJoker]

I suppose he could, but looking at those two screenshots, there really isn't any doubt those are the exact same mix. And most likely the same mastering.

Definitely the same mix. Mastering could be different, but a null test will tell.

 

[Franklin]

I much prefer it to "Piano Man" which is basically the title track, Captain Jack, Billy the Kid and a LOT of filler, IMO.

No love for Stop In Nevada? (I can't even remember it, personally.)

 

[key_wiz]

No love for Stop In Nevada? (I can't even remember it, personally.)

You would think, considering I live there, right? But no. "You're My Home" is the only other track on that album I like much.

Don't get me wrong, though. Someone releases "Piano Man" in quad and I'm pre-ordering!

 

[Strilo]

Each of those early albums have their charms and their uneven spots. I think "Streetlife" is a stronger album overall than "Piano Man" but gets overlooked because it didn't have any big hits or "big" songs. Nothing from that album gets played on the radio anymore or probably live.

The Entertainer is a close as it gets. I think that's a great song and was a hit, yes? I grew up with it on my Greatest Hits Volumes 1 & 2.

 

[sjcorne]

I think "Streetlife" is a stronger album overall than "Piano Man" but gets overlooked because it didn't have any big hits or "big" songs. Nothing from that album gets played on the radio anymore or probably live. But it's a more even album from start to finish than "Piano Man" and his songwriting is really starting to flourish on this album.

Doubt I would've listened to Streetlife if not for quad (it's such a fantastic uber-discrete mix)...I agree it's better than people give it credit for, but a few tracks are needlessly hampered by that oh-so-dated synth sound. I remember reading an interview with BJ where he said he had just bought a moog synth around the time he started writing/recording that album, so he was a bit overly eager to work it into the overall sound. I actually really like the track "The Great Suburban Showdown", but I don't know what he was thinking with that synth intro bit. It sounds like the opening menu music to pong

Piano Man's got some decent stuff beyond the hits- I happen to really like the track "Worse Comes To Worst".

Edit: fun quote from BJ about "Root Beer Rag" and synth from Wikipedia:

I got my first Moog Synthesizer. This was in the mid 70s and I got my first Moog and I put it on every record. I said 'I have to write an instrumental where I can use this Moog Synthesizer. It kinda turned me off the synthesizers forever after. That's why I wrote that song. Just purely out of stupid self-indulgence.

 

[JonUrban]

Any chance you could try a null test, Jon? That would be proof positive, assuming the track timing is the same.

Tell me what to do and I'll do it. I just want to be sure I do it right.

 

[fredblue]

Tell me what to do and I'll do it. I just want to be sure I do it right.

although there will be many ways to skin that cat, i would just take the FL of one song off the old SACDs 5.1 and the FL of the same song off the new SACDs 5.1, sum both versions of the FL to Mono (Edit: Flip the phase on one of them! thanks JediJoker!!) and if you get silence they're the same

 

[JonUrban]

although there will be many ways to skin that cat, i would just take the FL of one song off the old SACDs 5.1 and the FL of the same song off the new SACDs 5.1, sum both versions of the FL to Mono and if you get silence they're the same

I thought of that but wondered if there was a better way to do that, maybe with a utility or something. I will mess around with it this afternoon and report back.

 

[JediJoker]

although there will be many ways to skin that cat, i would just take the FL of one song off the old SACDs 5.1 and the FL of the same song off the new SACDs 5.1, sum both versions of the FL to Mono and if you get silence they're the same

You have to flip the phase of one of those channels. But if it were me, I'd load the same track from both releases into a DAW, flip the phase of all 6 channels on one, listen to confirm silence, and then print/bounce the result and reload it into the DAW to check it visually.

 

[fredblue]

I thought of that but wondered if there was a better way to do that, maybe with a utility or something. I will mess around with it this afternoon and report back.

oh yes probably but that's a quick way, possibly not 100% conclusive if Sony Japan did little fiddles with LFE or somesuch.. but still if those tracks were to cancel one another out it might be a fairly good indicator.. anyhoo.. from a glance at the waveforms you posted i don't need no more info, the two versions would sound the same to me they look that close to one another even at that resolution/magnification

 

[fredblue]

You have to flip the phase of one of those channels. But if it were me, I'd load the same track from both releases into a DAW, flip the phase of all 6 channels on one, listen to confirm silence, and then print/bounce the result and reload it into the DAW to check it visually.

oh yes! silly me! i omitted to mention to invert one of the channels! (ahh.. thank God it's Friday! what a week! )

 

[sbrom]

oh yes! silly me! i omitted to mention to invert one of the channels! (ahh.. thank God it's Friday! what a week! )

Really cool you guys are taking this on! Maybe this was already addressed: The absolute levels of the two comparison waveforms will have to be (very close to) exactly the same. Might require some experimentation and visible examination of the waveforms prior to the invert/sum step.

 

[TheAbsentMind]

When you close the doors you dispense the inventory to outlets at below value....there have been a lot of sales on Audio Fidelity titles this last year...there is a title that IMO is a great investment if you buy multiple copies and keep it for a few years...this one...that sold for over twice that amount and Dylan's music will always have value...

Oh, I wish you hadn’t posted that deal. It’s my least listened to Bootleg Series release so the price tag has always kept me from even reading reviews (assuming the surround is mainly hall ambience). I’ll pull out the old sampler with “All I Really Want to Do” now that I have to do some review homework... followed by math homework. Bootleg Series 14, Lennon’s Imagine, The White Album, R.E.M. at the BBC and 2001* 4K are already stretching my budget thin as a Ramen noodle.

*while this is a film title, it’s worth pointing out it contains the original audio for the first time since LD, if ever. What might pique quad fans’ curiosity is that it contains directional dialogue across the front three channels for all the human characters; meanwhile, HAL 9000 is chillingly ever-present in all three front channels. Reminds me of the movie equivalent of vintage quad.

 

[4-earredwonder]

Really cool you guys are taking this on! Maybe this was already addressed: The absolute levels of the two comparison waveforms will have to be (very close to) exactly the same. Might require some experimentation and visible examination of the waveforms prior to the invert/sum step.

Supposedly, according to our 'friendly' moderator bmoura, SONY Japan had recently installed a DSD QUAD mastering chain to do all current DSD conversions from analogue sources to Digital and wonder if this would have any bearing when comparing it to the early 00 mastering of 52nd Street.

 

[Jim the Oldbie]

...I actually really like the track "The Great Suburban Showdown", but I don't know what he was thinking with that synth intro bit. It sounds like the opening menu music to pong

I gotta admit, I enjoy the little Minimoog doodles in that tune. They seem to float there in the space between front & rear, just out of reach of my left hand. I also gotta admit that my opinion in such matters is irretrievably biased, having worked as a certified Moog technician back in the day. Plus, ever since my last system upgrade, even completely unnatural sounds like these have taken on an indescribably organic texture that still surprises me.

None of the above is meant to imply that your description is inaccurate, of course.