blue.monk
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
For the surround mix? Perhaps. I was referring to the SACD stereo layer where the shift was quite noticeable through headphones.
HiRez Poll Blood Sweat & Tears - BLOOD SWEAT AND TEARS [SACD 4.0]
- Thread starter JonUrban
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For the surround mix? Perhaps. I was referring to the SACD stereo layer where the shift was quite noticeable through headphones.
Interesting content on this disc. My advice is to not listen to Steve Hoffman's SACD stereo mix of Spinning Wheel and You've Made Me So Very Happy (in synthesized surround sound using Logic 7 or PLIIX Music) followed by playing the quad mixes of these two songs. Steve Hoffman's stereo remasters of these two songs are absolutely spectacular. In comparison, the corresponding quad mixes sound somewhat "de-balled" due to reduced bass levels and less dynamic range. In the stereo mix, the beginning horns of Spinning Wheel jump right out of the speakers; not so with the quad version. But I found all of the other cuts more enjoyable listening in quad than in synthesized surround. I especially like the resurrected bass content on More and More, albeit coming from the rear, which is lacking on the stereo mix. (You all getting the idea that I like bass content? 
) Definitely a title worth owning.
) Definitely a title worth owning.I gave it a "nine".
Although it is somewhat of a dated (almost sounds compressed) recording, I like the quad mix.Never had this disc back in the day and now I think I missed out.
Favourite song "And when I die". The vocals tend to favour the leftback.leftfront channels but I don't mind, seems to sound just fine to me.
Also like the bass coming from the leftback on "more and more".
Indications of QUAD have been removed from the packaging.Must be a dirty word to AF.
I would of liked the quad liner notes credits-maybe next releases.
Overall a good job for a 71/72 quad mix title of a 69 release.
Please keep em coming AF!
Although it is somewhat of a dated (almost sounds compressed) recording, I like the quad mix.Never had this disc back in the day and now I think I missed out.
Favourite song "And when I die". The vocals tend to favour the leftback.leftfront channels but I don't mind, seems to sound just fine to me.
Also like the bass coming from the leftback on "more and more".
Indications of QUAD have been removed from the packaging.Must be a dirty word to AF.
I would of liked the quad liner notes credits-maybe next releases.
Overall a good job for a 71/72 quad mix title of a 69 release.
Please keep em coming AF!
This is an almost perfect Quadraphonic mix.
The one problem I have with this mix?
It's "Blues-Part II".
Drums panned completely to the surround channels like that? C'mon man! It just doesn't feel that natural to me to have a drum solo going on around my head. I don't need that much immersion…When the other instruments are in, it's fine, but if I were mixing it, I would take those drums and stick them a lot more towards the front channels where they belong.
Other than that, there's not much else I can say about this disc except that I cannot remember enjoying a Quad SACD so much since I got all of the Moody Blues SACDs almost 5 years ago.
Audio Fidelity really needs to be commended for a superb remastering job that brings out the best qualities of this extremely immersive and quirky Quad mix.
Not to mention that the music is phenomenal too!
Favorites include "Smiling Phases", "More and More", and "Spinning Wheel".
Highly recommended, and now I am even more excited about Guess Who and Bread!
:yikes I think every surround mix should have the drums flying into the back speakers; as long as they are balanced, I.E not just in one channel, on one side. I love hearing drums rolls from speaker to speaker over my head.
Have you heard 'Birthday Song' by SW? The mixing of the drums is brilliant.
Now this is something I really hate. Bass in rear left, WTF? Vocals slightly to one side as opposed to in the middle; horrible.
This puts me off buying this disc now. Glad I found this out. Real shame. I will find this too annoying.
LizardKing
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Until this (and their first album) came out on surround I hadn't payed much attention to B,S&T's music. That has now changed with this release (and Child is Father to the Man). These two albums have been on high rotation on my system.
I really like the Rock/Jazz/Big Band sound, and wow - these guys have got great chops! I love the jazzy parts! Blues, Part II is probably my favourite.
The quad mix works great for me, sound quality is great, and I actually quite like the odd strange placement - I like the quirks of old school quad mixes.
Pity that Spinning Wheel etc aren't the full tracks - but hey - that's how the official quad release was done... I give this a 9 (almost 10).
Kudos to AF for getting this out. Here's hoping there will be many, many more quad (and 5.1) releases from AF. They've already done a gazillion times better than the Rhino Handmade Quadios. Just when we thought we wouldn't see any more Rock SACDs (and QUAD) this series starts from AF.
I really like the Rock/Jazz/Big Band sound, and wow - these guys have got great chops! I love the jazzy parts! Blues, Part II is probably my favourite.
The quad mix works great for me, sound quality is great, and I actually quite like the odd strange placement - I like the quirks of old school quad mixes.
Pity that Spinning Wheel etc aren't the full tracks - but hey - that's how the official quad release was done... I give this a 9 (almost 10).
Kudos to AF for getting this out. Here's hoping there will be many, many more quad (and 5.1) releases from AF. They've already done a gazillion times better than the Rhino Handmade Quadios. Just when we thought we wouldn't see any more Rock SACDs (and QUAD) this series starts from AF.
Try BS&T 3 and 4 as well. Although not available in surround, they are very worthy. I was lucky enough to have a beer with David Clayton Thomas during the intermission of a "reformed" BS&T gig about 25 years ago. Great guy.
alk3997
500 Club - QQ All-Star
Let me explain my 7 for SACD. Now, I will admit that my lower score comes from the original 4.0 quad mix, which was presumably done over 40 years ago. The transfer from that quad mix to SACD is outstanding! Excellent work on the transfer.
However, that original quad mix is so back channel-heavy that it is distracting. Distracting enough to cause me to verify that my system was playing the disc correctly. In the car (after a DVD-Audio transfer), the vocals are so buried on some tracks that again I questioned whether my car's system was handling a 4.0 DVD-Audio disc correctly. But then I went back and listened to the SACD again and sure enough tracks like More and More just have really buried vocals - made me wish for a center channel actually. So the car and home systems generate the same output.
On Blues - Part II, on some days I actually like the "headphone drums" in the rear channels. But again, it just seems like the rear channels have become primary in many of the songs.
Given that the mix was done over 40 years ago, it almost seems unfair to complain about this. This is one of the first albums to be recorded on 16-track tape. But the mixing capabilities were primitive by today's digital mixing standards, even when the quad mix was originally made. I suspect, if the original 16-track tape still exists, this is an opportunity for a truly great modern 5.1-channel mix that emphasizes the horn section but doesn't bury the vocals.
Having said that about the negatives, I'm still enjoying listening to the disc. So, maybe a 7+ is really my vote.
Andy
However, that original quad mix is so back channel-heavy that it is distracting. Distracting enough to cause me to verify that my system was playing the disc correctly. In the car (after a DVD-Audio transfer), the vocals are so buried on some tracks that again I questioned whether my car's system was handling a 4.0 DVD-Audio disc correctly. But then I went back and listened to the SACD again and sure enough tracks like More and More just have really buried vocals - made me wish for a center channel actually. So the car and home systems generate the same output.
On Blues - Part II, on some days I actually like the "headphone drums" in the rear channels. But again, it just seems like the rear channels have become primary in many of the songs.
Given that the mix was done over 40 years ago, it almost seems unfair to complain about this. This is one of the first albums to be recorded on 16-track tape. But the mixing capabilities were primitive by today's digital mixing standards, even when the quad mix was originally made. I suspect, if the original 16-track tape still exists, this is an opportunity for a truly great modern 5.1-channel mix that emphasizes the horn section but doesn't bury the vocals.
Having said that about the negatives, I'm still enjoying listening to the disc. So, maybe a 7+ is really my vote.
Andy
I can understand why you gave it a 7. I also gave it a 7 but for a very different reason. I thought that the quad mixes of Spinning Wheel and You've Made Me So Very Happy were not up to the standard of the rest of the album. Also, the stereo mix and sound of this album has always been fabulous especially listening with PLIIx. So anything less than a full proper remix in 5.1 was probably going to come up short. Regardless, I'm very glad to have this disc in the collection.
Well folks, I finally gave this one a good, hard listen.
First off, this is definitively the commercially released Q8 mix. Like the Q8, it features the edited, pseudo-single versions of "Spinning Wheel" and "You've Made me so very Happy". "Spinning Wheel" does not feature the calliope/breakdown ending, but does feature the guitar solo in the break. So it's a hybrid of the single and stereo versions. "You've Made me so very Happy" is the single version omitting the organ break during the middle half of the song, running around 3m35s, much shorter than the 4m20s of the stereo cut. Something else may have been edited out, but I can't quite pinpoint what exactly.
To my ears, the mix sounds similar to the 2nd Unreleased version however the fronts feature an echo of the rears and the rears feature an echo of the fronts, somewhat collapsing the soundfield and making sure there are no dead channels. The 2nd Unreleased is much more discrete and does feature quiet channels here and there.
All in all, sound quality is very good, but I find it a little disappointing that they didn't correct the shortening of the two songs on the Q8's. But then again, that would be revisionist history by changing the way this album was originally presented. So, six-of-one, half-a-dozen of the other.
An 8. I felt the same way about the Q8 and Greatest Hits for the shortening of the songs. I was over the moon when the MR reel came about so I could finally hear the calliope/breakdown ending of "Spinning Wheel". I once made my own mix by editing in those parts from the stereo track. It worked, but not as well as the version that came from the actual multitrack.
First off, this is definitively the commercially released Q8 mix. Like the Q8, it features the edited, pseudo-single versions of "Spinning Wheel" and "You've Made me so very Happy". "Spinning Wheel" does not feature the calliope/breakdown ending, but does feature the guitar solo in the break. So it's a hybrid of the single and stereo versions. "You've Made me so very Happy" is the single version omitting the organ break during the middle half of the song, running around 3m35s, much shorter than the 4m20s of the stereo cut. Something else may have been edited out, but I can't quite pinpoint what exactly.
To my ears, the mix sounds similar to the 2nd Unreleased version however the fronts feature an echo of the rears and the rears feature an echo of the fronts, somewhat collapsing the soundfield and making sure there are no dead channels. The 2nd Unreleased is much more discrete and does feature quiet channels here and there.
All in all, sound quality is very good, but I find it a little disappointing that they didn't correct the shortening of the two songs on the Q8's. But then again, that would be revisionist history by changing the way this album was originally presented. So, six-of-one, half-a-dozen of the other.
An 8. I felt the same way about the Q8 and Greatest Hits for the shortening of the songs. I was over the moon when the MR reel came about so I could finally hear the calliope/breakdown ending of "Spinning Wheel". I once made my own mix by editing in those parts from the stereo track. It worked, but not as well as the version that came from the actual multitrack.
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I just found out that Lew Soloff, who played trumpet on this album, passed away yesterday .
http://jazztimes.com/sections/news/articles/156952-trumpeter-lew-soloff-dies-at-71
.http://jazztimes.com/sections/news/articles/156952-trumpeter-lew-soloff-dies-at-71
I got this disc early on thru acoustic sounds because I already had the stereo version and I wanted to test it out to decide if I wanted to sell my stereo copy.....during the first few minutes of playing this disc I was thinking it was a 10...but when the edited quad versions of some of the songs (especially spinning wheel)came up I was very disappointed...so I'm keeping my stereo version...the short answer is I will give it an 8..but I was leaning heavily toward a 7...I loaned my stereo copy to Gos 2.0 and maybe he can comment on the difference he heard...I hope AF continues with these quad releases to hi rez..
Yep....I have the STEREO version on loan from Clint...aka...The Man With No Name.....
I like both versions - but admit I was instantly bummed at the Quad version and its "other" version of a couple tunes...which I was SO looking forward to in glorious multi channel. If I had it my way....and I probably will..I will have both versions. So, when I need a Spinning Wheel fix...I'll pop in the stereo version...when I need a multi channel fix....well...I'll listen to the REST of the Quad disc. May seem silly...but I want them both.
I gave the Multi a 9...it sounds amazing..but the Spinning Wheel thing drives me batty. The STEREO version is phenomenal as well and has the "correct" Spinning Wheel....
Yep....I have the STEREO version on loan from Clint...aka...The Man With No Name.....
I like both versions - but admit I was instantly bummed at the Quad version and its "other" version of a couple tunes...which I was SO looking forward to in glorious multi channel. If I had it my way....and I probably will..I will have both versions. So, when I need a Spinning Wheel fix...I'll pop in the stereo version...when I need a multi channel fix....well...I'll listen to the REST of the Quad disc. May seem silly...but I want them both.
I gave the Multi a 9...it sounds amazing..but the Spinning Wheel thing drives me batty. The STEREO version is phenomenal as well and has the "correct" Spinning Wheel....
I am going to keep both versions....
Heck, why couldn't they just put both versions of Wheel on the Quad? And....what is the reason again for the shorter version?? Guess I don't even know....
Poll thread-sorry
Will have to give this one more listens before a vote, but I've never owned the album though like most here, I've heard several of the songs many, many times.....bought "You've Made Me..." on 45 when it came out as a kid. That said, the non-hits here seem to have by far the more adventurous, and better, 4.0 mixes. I think this will get lots of play, but perhaps jump to the stereo layer thru PL2 on a couple of songs as one reviewer comments. About 75% spot on, and 25% spot off for the mixes.
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