HiRez Poll Blood Sweat & Tears - BLOOD SWEAT AND TEARS [SACD 4.0]

[dr. simple]

My passion for music did not begin until after the quad era of the '70s so I cannot speak from experience, but it is my impression that quad mixes are designed for the listener to be equidistant from all four speakers. In other words, in the center of a square in which all four speakers are at the same level. PLEASE don't take my word for this and correct me if I'm wrong!

That being said, with this Blood Sweat & Tears SACD, I find that I must move my coffee table and pull my swivel desk chair to the middle of the room to really enjoy it. The rear speakers are just way too loud. Now, I don't mind doing this, because frankly it's pretty fun to listen this way. I can turn around and focus on different parts of the song, you know, as if I were in the middle of the band (what a concept!).

Normal mode:


Quad mode:


Anyone find this to be true? By the way, I voted "9" because I think the disc is wonderful and took a point off for this minor inconvenience. I can understand and appreciate a desire to leave the quad mix intact, but it would have been nice to have the producers adjust it for modern 5.1 listening.

 

[GOS]

My passion for music did not begin until after the quad era of the '70s so I cannot speak from experience, but it is my impression that quad mixes are designed for the listener to be equidistant from all four speakers. In other words, in the center of a square in which all four speakers are at the same level. PLEASE don't take my word for this and correct me if I'm wrong!

That being said, with this Blood Sweat & Tears SACD, I find that I must move my coffee table and pull my swivel desk chair to the middle of the room to really enjoy it. The rear speakers are just way too loud. Now, I don't mind doing this, because frankly it's pretty fun to listen this way. I can turn around and focus on different parts of the song, you know, as if I were in the middle of the band (what a concept!).

Normal mode:
View attachment 18034

Quad mode:
View attachment 18035

Anyone find this to be true? By the way, I voted "9" because I think the disc is wonderful and took a point off for this minor inconvenience. I can understand and appreciate a desire to leave the quad mix intact, but it would have been nice to have the producers adjust it for modern 5.1 listening.

totally, 100%! I have done the EXACT same thing on some of the Quad releases of late. My rear speakers are WAY too loud...as I would be sitting closer to those. So....I bring a chair into the room and sit more in center...just like you say. Been there...done that. Not such a bad thing.....

 

[huggy]

hi guys, the blood sweat & tears there second one with spinning wheel, best buy emailed me and said that SACD finally came in. and they already shipped it and should get it this coming week, so if any of you people would like to

order from there web site, they have it.

huggy

 

[DennisMabry]

View attachment 18034

Wow deja vu, I feel like I've had a few beers and listened to surround music in a room exactly like this one before........strange.

 

[Old Quad Guy]

Well, here is my review more or less of this title. There is no right or wrong way to enjoy surround or any type music IMHO. I’m sort of a “all of the above whatever works approach." Personally, I'm very happy with the Mastering of these AF Quad titles. Everything’s right. And before I heard even a note of these titles I knew we were in good hands as the person who did the excellent “3 channel stereo” for the Nat King Cole AF titles is doing the Quad. Very happy and keep them coming!

Context is everything and one needs to imagine themselves at any age living back in the early – mid 1970s. The thing to remember was back in the Quad era was, the extra speakers were an extra expense, at least for real expensive systems and as with today sometimes a furniture issue. Like where to put the speakers to hit more or less a sweet spot depending on room size. What I like about Quad mixes in general from the 1970s is that they used all 4 speakers equally to create a sound field and were Not afraid to put music and move sound adventurously or even experimentally. I feel they had a handle on the music and the mixes then, that more often than not fit the music quite well.

So for my Sansui QRX-6500 that I use with a Pioneer DVD-A/SACD player, yes, I find myself adjusting volumes at the amp and moving my comfy chair around at times. Sometimes it depends if I’m listening to a modern 5.1 mix or a conversion or different formats like a DTS-CD. Personally, I find that’s what we did back in the 1970s when we put on different titles whether Stereo or Surround. Part of the enjoyment or experience with music back then was adjusting the sound. I miss not having Bass and Treble knobs on the front of Modern Amps, which I also own.

So, it made sense back then to have joysticks either on the front of Amps or by extra remote attachment. I just wish there was some sort of joystick approach for modern amps or better yet on the Remote that made changing the Sound field easier. A simple flick of the finger, rather than adjusting each speaker separately with “numbers” and then trying to figure out if I got it right.

Anyway, real happy with this title. It was a must have title for the Quad era and was at every single record store. Even Sears and J.C. Penney’s stores if you can believe it. The thing to remember about Quad mixes themselves, is that they have been that way for over 40 years. Personally, they take me back to a more optimistic era and remind me of the context of the times. Even if one has forgotten or wasn't born back then, you can hear “something” there in the mix and music that will tell you about the era. And a great mix transcends all time.

 

[elshagon]

I'm with you man....I was listening to Spinning Wheel...and towards the last part of the song...I was so looking forward to the extended song...only to go quiet. Bummer! But yeah...great disc.

I added the extended ending back in. I used the mfsl stereo sacd and matched levels with the 4.0 SACD and then just took the ending from the stereo and matched it to the correct spot, did some cutting and pasting and creative work to the ending rear channels and...you have the extended ending in 4.0! Not perfect, but close. I think I prefer the mfsl stereo sacd to this one, but still nice to have.

 

[MIDIQ]

One of my favorite albums, I have never heard it in quad before and loved it. I already own the stereo sacd, but just had to try the quad one. Glad I did, I rate it a 10!!!

 

[sf49erjohn]

Well I guess I'm late to the party as I just received my copy of B, S, & T yesterday but I love the disc. Not having the history with it that others have had my expectations were probably less? Anyway I love the mix, Blues Part 2 is a favorite (yes drums in the rear) along with You Made Me so Very Happy, Variations on a Theme and others. If Winelight is a 10 this gets a 9 from me. So glad I got on board and ordered this even if a little late.

 

[Guy Robinson]

Okay. This is an interesting one. I have heard this album hundreds of times and have had many versions of it. I first playing the Quad two or three times. Sounded pretty good. Then I tried the remastered stereo and used the 7.2 stereo mode on my receiver. Wow! Everything just sounded tighter with more bass and ALL the instruments sounded more lifelike. The room was filled with sound far more than with the Quad. I had a few friends over to do an A/B comparison and get their take on it. These same two people come over once a week and listen to surround music with me, so they like to listen to surround music and I think at this point they know what sounds just good and what sounds fantastic. Both of them voted for the stereo with 7.2. In fact they said the same as I did that there was really no contest when comparing the two. So I voted 10 for the stereo using 7.2 and 6 for the Quad. This averaged out to an 8.

 

[Guy Robinson]

My passion for music did not begin until after the quad era of the '70s so I cannot speak from experience, but it is my impression that quad mixes are designed for the listener to be equidistant from all four speakers. In other words, in the center of a square in which all four speakers are at the same level. PLEASE don't take my word for this and correct me if I'm wrong!

That being said, with this Blood Sweat & Tears SACD, I find that I must move my coffee table and pull my swivel desk chair to the middle of the room to really enjoy it. The rear speakers are just way too loud. Now, I don't mind doing this, because frankly it's pretty fun to listen this way. I can turn around and focus on different parts of the song, you know, as if I were in the middle of the band (what a concept!).

Normal mode:
View attachment 18034

Quad mode:
View attachment 18035

Anyone find this to be true? By the way, I voted "9" because I think the disc is wonderful and took a point off for this minor inconvenience. I can understand and appreciate a desire to leave the quad mix intact, but it would have been nice to have the producers adjust it for modern 5.1 listening.

You definitely should do this rearranging to listen to a quad mix.

 

[Cibola]

Okay. This is an interesting one. I have heard this album hundreds of times and have had many versions of it. I first playing the Quad two or three times. Sounded pretty good. Then I tried the remastered stereo and used the 7.2 stereo mode on my receiver. Wow! Everything just sounded tighter with more bass and ALL the instruments sounded more lifelike. The room was filled with sound far more than with the Quad. I had a few friends over to do an A/B comparison and get their take on it. These same two people come over once a week and listen to surround music with me, so they like to listen to surround music and I think at this point they know what sounds just good and what sounds fantastic. Both of them voted for the stereo with 7.2. In fact they said the same as I did that there was really no contest when comparing the two. So I voted 10 for the stereo using 7.2 and 6 for the Quad. This averaged out to an 8.

I suspect more of us are having problems with the AF 4.0 releases. I also found BST BST lacking in fullness so I also played around with settings but didn't notice much improvement using your stereo to surround approach with my setup. I use "direct" mode for my 5.1 discs and am quite satisfied but with the 4.0 discs I'm struggling to find satisfactory settings. As a test, I played the 4.0 BST BST after fiddling around then played BST CIFTTM 5.1 in direct mode and the latter was clearly more room filling without adjustment. Any thoughts on what's going on here?

 

[keenly]

Well I guess I'm late to the party as I just received my copy of B, S, & T yesterday but I love the disc. Not having the history with it that others have had my expectations were probably less? Anyway I love the mix, Blues Part 2 is a favorite (yes drums in the rear) along with You Made Me so Very Happy, Variations on a Theme and others. If Winelight is a 10 this gets a 9 from me. So glad I got on board and ordered this even if a little late.

Drums in stereo(rears)? That is fine by me if so. I don't mind that, as long as full drum kit is not isolated in one speaker. I particularly love drum rolls across the back speakers.

 

[Guy Robinson]

I suspect more of us are having problems with the AF 4.0 releases. I also found BST BST lacking in fullness so I also played around with settings but didn't notice much improvement using your stereo to surround approach with my setup. I use "direct" mode for my 5.1 discs and am quite satisfied but with the 4.0 discs I'm struggling to find satisfactory settings. As a test, I played the 4.0 BST BST after fiddling around then played BST CIFTTM 5.1 in direct mode and the latter was clearly more room filling without adjustment. Any thoughts on what's going on here?

I just chalked this one up to a bad quad mix. Other quad mixes I have are better but I must admit that generally I find them less fulfilling than a 5.1 mix. Of course there are bad 5.1 mixes as well. With this quad the mix isn't as detailed and the instruments don't sound as realistic as the stereo mix in 7.2. The quad mix also sounds "old" to me. Just less dynamic generally. I won't be listening to the quad again when the stereo in 7.2 is so much better.

 

[keenly]

Brilliant music, good fidelity. I just wish the bass was louder in parts and ALL lead vocals were centered. I really detest off center vocals, ridiculous mixing choice. The drumming on this album is brilliant, really fun to listen to. Overall 7 for me.

 

[keenly]

Well I guess I'm late to the party as I just received my copy of B, S, & T yesterday but I love the disc. Not having the history with it that others have had my expectations were probably less? Anyway I love the mix, Blues Part 2 is a favorite (yes drums in the rear) along with You Made Me so Very Happy, Variations on a Theme and others. If Winelight is a 10 this gets a 9 from me. So glad I got on board and ordered this even if a little late.

The drums in rears on Blues part 2 sound excellent. Great recording of the entire drum kit. Nice to hear them in stereo(rears) and not just one speaker.

 

[oxenholme]

I've heard Spinning Wheel before on one of those early 70s CBS sampler LPs. Beyond that it's new to me.

I decided to take a chance on the SACD, and I'm pleased that I did because it comes to life in quad. The price of admission is justified by that preposterous trumpet in Spinning Wheel in the rear right speaker. It's a demonstration disc.

 

[EMB]

As with my review in the 4-Channel Spotlight poll, an '8' here. Given the vintage and the mix, nice sound...but caveats having already been noted by others, no point in going any further beyond the fact it's good this got release. I understand why a 5.1 would be preferable, not least after CHILD IS FATHER got such a fine treatment from Uncle Al (who, lest we forget, helped arranged a few of the tracks here, though he was gone from the band by the time of the album's release).

It remains a bit strange that "Spinning" and "Happy" were edited for this quad release, when those edits (close but not quite akin to the mono 45's) could have been isolated on the GH album. Not that "Wheel"'s being longer really saves it from the noodling mess the original stereo album version was (though the ending suggested the group might have wondered about its worth--before it became a hit, that is). Nice, too, that the guitar added to the 45 (but not heard in stereo) was added. But the longer versions would have been sensible for this release, anyway.

That aside, nice one to add to the AF pile.

ED

 

[Snood]

Snood very much likey the disc - amazing how little guitar there is and was still digging it. Snood love me some brass - wish the drums could have been brought out more a a few songs, but still very enjoyable.

Stand out tracks were

And When I die
God Bless the Child
Spinning Wheel
Blues - Part II (Awesome)

Very koo mix and very much enjoyed it. Going with an 8 close to a 9 :banana:

 

[edisonbaggins]

Woo hoo! Glad I hung in there with Amerzurn. Though they delayed 4 times and I feared they'd end up cancelling, they claim they've shipped this sucker!
Glad to be supporting the cause, rather than a re-seller and to get it for the retail price.

 

[edisonbaggins]

I went with 8. It's a very enjoyable listen, but I had to adjust my sub several times, which I don't have to for modern 5.1 releases and many quad reissues.