Can you recommend certain fineline styli? I'm leaning toward buying a new AT cartridge (of those listed in the CD-4 Cartridge Recommendations thread). Will any fineline work with any of those cartridges?
CD-4 - The thin line between success and failure, but still in the fight!
- Thread starter J. PUPSTER
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Help Support QuadraphonicQuad:
On my way to bed. One of the other guys here can answer that.
I'll try to check this thread tomorrow.
I'll try to check this thread tomorrow.
https://www.lpgear.com/product/ATN12S.html
https://www.lpgear.com/product/ATN15.html
Looks like LP Gear is a good source for A-T cart items (including the Shibata stylus), I recommend trying to get an actual Shibata stylus rather than another type of fineline/line contact stylus shape (a Shibata will bridge a damaged record groove and play the undamaged part, another type of fineline/line contact may not do this).
Kirk Bayne
https://www.lpgear.com/product/ATN15.html
Looks like LP Gear is a good source for A-T cart items (including the Shibata stylus), I recommend trying to get an actual Shibata stylus rather than another type of fineline/line contact stylus shape (a Shibata will bridge a damaged record groove and play the undamaged part, another type of fineline/line contact may not do this).
Kirk Bayne
Thank you
Hi Doug,
The carrier has a small Elyth buffer, like in radios. I will check it, making that capacity bigger, but will take some month. Now I have to rebuild my new JVC GX-500.
But as we said: good calibration is all.
Have also some records where songs will never be really good. While recording I saw many breaks where the carrier suddenly drops low for a few milliseconds, or drops smooth on one side, than the other. I think about the tapes they had, not always perfect. But with Audacity it's possible to repair a lot.
Some good questions, Mike. You may think I'm dodging your questions. I haven't time this morn to reread all your posts. Have a busy day planned. Hence, I have questions. I'll let the guys here help you go through the nuts & bolts with you. Likely you or they might think of a few I haven't posed.
1- What turntable are you using, or wanting to upgrade to soon? Different tonearms and cartridges have varying compliances from model to model. Which leads me into, is tonearm a separate purchase? If so, which tonearm. The cartridge s/b optimally matched w/tonearm. That, not the turntable's motor is the determining factor.
2- What % of the time will you be listening to vinyl? This and your budget will determine how much to invest. For a heavy vinyl listener, the cartridge is the biggest determinant of realism, just as speakers are on this and every other source. You'll likely get the most bang for you hi-fi buck if you spend a higher proportion of the total expense on speakers and phono cart. Still, the right gear might be needed to "support" these pieces.
3- Will you be using another cartridge for 2ch listening, or is the CD-4 cartridge going to be used for everything?
Hopefully, this will give you and my compadres work out what is right tor you. Knowing your budget, other gear and examining these issues will greatly increase your value and enjoyment.
Hi-fi salons like ours are dinosaurs. We would have examined those issues with you and taken a half hour or more to properly set up the turntable & cart the right way. Free of charge. Even for CD-4 gear. Mail order and big boxes can't come close in offering value-added! I constantly advocated to be the customer's go-to expert friend.
1. I recently acquired a Marantz 6150, for the purpose of Quad vinyl play. It happened to come with an ADC ZLM cart (unsure about the exact stylus).
https://www.vinylengine.com/library/marantz/6150.shtmlIt's supposed to be CD-4 ready, in terms of the tonearm impedance, and available controls and adjustments.
2. I listen to vinyl A LOT, these days. Around 100 CD-4 records. About as many matrix. 500-600 stereo/mono records.
The Quad system speakers are Klipsch KG 5.5s up front and 5.2s in the rear. The Surround Master can also utilize the matching vintage ('92) Klipsch sub, when it is in 4.1 mode.
3. I have a separate system for 2-ch. The pioneer PL-400 is equipped with a Pickering XV15/625E. I like it. I might rotate the ADC over there, to compare. Someday. If I get free time to burn!
Budget? Some folks have been recommending carts in the several hundred $$ range. That is ok. $5k is NOT ok.
jefe1
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Baggy congratulations on your vinyl journey. All you need now is to get a cat to be fully civilized.
https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...a-cartridges-for-best-cd-4-performance.29754/
https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Audio/Archive-Audio/70s/Audio-1974-03.pdf#page=43
Looks like the AT 15 CD-4 cart is the best value (the AT 14 [JVC 4MD-20X] doesn't seem as good).
Kirk Bayne
https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Audio/Archive-Audio/70s/Audio-1974-03.pdf#page=43
Looks like the AT 15 CD-4 cart is the best value (the AT 14 [JVC 4MD-20X] doesn't seem as good).
Kirk Bayne
Do AT carts get "better" as the model number increases?
Like, is an AT20 better than an AT15? What about an AT912?
And... is there a clear winner between SS, SA, SLA, ML etc.?
In terms of CD-4 playback, of course.
**edit: per the worldradiohistory article above, yes. Higher number, is better, at least from 14 to 15 to 20.
Doug G.
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Yes, generally, the higher the model number in any manufacturer's line, translated as more expensive, the better. The AT20s are hand selected AT15s with slightly better specs. The AT14 should fine because the AT12 is. The AT912 is just a later version of the AT12. And there lies the exception to the higher number rule. The base number "12" is still it with the AT912.
As far as a definitive "which is better", among the different suffixes, I don't think there is. They should all be capable of picking up the carriers and sending them along to the cantilever.
Doug
As far as a definitive "which is better", among the different suffixes, I don't think there is. They should all be capable of picking up the carriers and sending them along to the cantilever.
Doug
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Doug G.
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
I can't because I don't have a VM95SH but I do have an XUV-4500Q and it is excellent. It was one of the top CD-4 cartridges back in the day and has a real refined, broad response sound, in addition to being able to dig out the carriers on even less-than-perfect discs. Of course the crux, as always with CD-4, is to make sure you have a stylus in excellent shape, something which has become more difficult, with the classic cartridges, in these days long past quad's halcyon days.
I lucked out with my XUV. A guy had it on eBay, several years ago, for 71 bucks and I saw it and said to myself, "SOLD!" I didn't really know the stylus condition other than the seller said is was in excellent shape with hardly any use on it. When I got the cartridge, it played every CD-4 record I had perfectly ,so, that answered THAT question.
Doug
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I'm watching one on the bay with supposedly 200 hrs on it.
Question: how can a diamond wear out, just by contacting vinyl?
Doug G.
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Same principle as water wearing away rocks. mass and quantity. You have those tiny little spots of diamond against all those miles and miles of vinyl.
I'll try to find specs for both.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...m95sh_moving_magnet_cartridge_shibata.html/qa^^^
Q&A for AT-VM95SH at B&H Photo web site:
Q: Is this cartridge fully capable of playing CD-4, QS, SQ, and other 4 channel quadraphonic records?
A: This phono cartridge cannot be used for this type of multi-4 channel vinyl record...(meaning CD-4)
Seems like the best option is to obtain a 1970s CD-4 cart.
Kirk Bayne
Q&A for AT-VM95SH at B&H Photo web site:
Q: Is this cartridge fully capable of playing CD-4, QS, SQ, and other 4 channel quadraphonic records?
A: This phono cartridge cannot be used for this type of multi-4 channel vinyl record...(meaning CD-4)
Seems like the best option is to obtain a 1970s CD-4 cart.
Kirk Bayne
I don't know who answered that question at B&H web site, I personally tried the VM95SH and it played the most difficult CD-4 tracks with no problem. Manufacturer does not know, because they certainly did not test for CD-4 at this day and age, so they are probably just saying it offhand (that it is not designed for that). AT probably does not bother to claim or measure freq. response higher than 25 kHz, it is simply not needed today. But that does not mean cartridge is not capable of going much higher if principal design allows it.
I just happened to find the B&H answer just before I posted the link.
I too am considering getting an AT-VM95SH for CD-4, the FM limiter in the later demods (QSI 5022 IC) will bring up the level of 45kHz to a usable level, but poor channel separation above 15kHz can be a problem.
In the other thread, I posted the titles of 3 known "problem" CD-4 discs, have you tried these CD-4 discs with the AT-VM95SH?
Kirk Bayne
I too am considering getting an AT-VM95SH for CD-4, the FM limiter in the later demods (QSI 5022 IC) will bring up the level of 45kHz to a usable level, but poor channel separation above 15kHz can be a problem.
In the other thread, I posted the titles of 3 known "problem" CD-4 discs, have you tried these CD-4 discs with the AT-VM95SH?
Kirk Bayne
No, I did not do that much testing, I compared it to Shure M24H and it was equally good, and that was good enough for me to recommend it for $200. Is it state of the art for CD-4? Probably not, but than few cartridges are and they are vintage and much harder to get.
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